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Thread: Why didn't Gwok Jing show much hatred for Au Yeung Fung?

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default Why didn't Gwok Jing show much hatred for Au Yeung Fung?

    When Gwok Jing initially believed that East Heretic Wong Yerk See had murdered five of his beloved Gong Nam 7 Freaks teachers on Peach Blossom Island, Gwok Jing was understandably enraged at Wong Yerk See and wanted the latter's blood in vengeance. Later, Gwok Jing learned that in fact, it had been Yeung Hong and West Poison Au Yeung Fung who actually murdered the 5 Freaks. Yeung Hong died horribly shortly afterward, so justice was settled there. Au Yeung Fung, however, remained at large and even held Wong Yung prisoner (and let's also not forget that Gwok Jing had a score to settle with Au Yeung Fung for having critically injured Gwok Jing's other teacher, North Beggar Hung 7 Gung, and for having nearly killed Gwok Jing himself in the Sung Imperial Palace a few months earlier). For the rest of Au Yeung Fung's life, however, Gwok Jing seemed to hold no special outrage towards him. When Au Yeung Fung went to see Gwok Jing at the Mongolian base camp near Samarkand, Gwok Jing was *almost* cordial to the fiend who'd murdered his five teachers and had held his beloved Wong Yung hostage. In ROCH thirteen years later, Gwok Jing was downright polite to Au Yeung Fung...even greeting him with a courteous, "Mr. Au Yeung...it's been a long time" before fighting him. Gwok Jing never pursued vengeance against Au Yeung Fung. Why this lenience towards a villain who had taken so much from him?

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    one possible reason is that his anger is much reduced now. normally, people's emotions are highest after the immediate event. thereafter, one sober down.

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    Senior Member shen long's Avatar
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    Probably GJ felt bad that he was the cause of OYF insanity with the fake 9 Yin.

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    don't you know that gwok jing is..............stupid??

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loke-Gao-Zhu
    don't you know that gwok jing is..............stupid??
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    Senior Member Athena's Avatar
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    This has been on my mind for some time now. I don't know where people get the idea that Guo Jing is dumb/stupid etc.
    Guo Jing is certainly not the most intelligent man on earth, that is true. But he is not a stupid man either. He is not Yang Guo or Linghu Chong, fine. But I appreciate a certain pureness in a man, which Guo Jing definitely has.
    If you've read the novel closely, you will discover he is not a dumb young man the adaptations make him to be.
    A very good example is in chapter 6 of LOCH. In that chapter, he tells Huazheng that Sang Kun and others are plotting against Genghis Khan. He told her to inform Genghis Khan immediately about the plot. Huazheng looked very happy and said that she will.
    Guo Jing was puzzled for a moment and thought why would she be happy that someone is plotting against her father and immediately he smiled and thought:"Of course, now she doesn't have to marry Duo Shi anymore." And was happy for her too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athena
    This has been on my mind for some time now. I don't know where people get the idea that Guo Jing is dumb/stupid etc.
    Guo Jing is certainly not the most intelligent man on earth, that is true. But he is not a stupid man either. He is not Yang Guo or Linghu Chong, fine. But I appreciate a certain pureness in a man, which Guo Jing definitely has.
    If you've read the novel closely, you will discover he is not a dumb young man the adaptations make him to be.
    A very good example is in chapter 6 of LOCH. In that chapter, he tells Huazheng that Sang Kun and others are plotting against Genghis Khan. He told her to inform Genghis Khan immediately about the plot. Huazheng looked very happy and said that she will.
    Guo Jing was puzzled for a moment and thought why would she be happy that someone is plotting against her father and immediately he smiled and thought:"Of course, now she doesn't have to marry Duo Shi anymore." And was happy for her too.
    He's not dumb alright.... but very uncomplicated and predictable to the bone; his character in the novel almost resembles a loyal and noble horse, except that he speaks.

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    Senior Member yittz's Avatar
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    Agree with wkeej, that he possibly have cooled down

    However in between the time he found out his sifu's death and his meeting with HYS, he should have also had some (albeit less) time to cool off.

    Other factors:
    By the time he found out, Yang Kang, the other culprit, died a horrible death, possibly taking away some of his urge for revenge.

    Sympathy towards OYF's loss of son.

    He was preoccupied with finding HR.

    Annoyed at himself for his mistakes.

    After hua san meeting, GJ felt sorry for OYF and his warped mind.

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    Senior Member JigSta's Avatar
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    His anger was tempered after finding out the truth. He might have felt guilty for acting the way he did. Soon afterwards, he had to find and make amends with HR. OYF's loss of a son and the ultimate fate of him going insane made GJ pity OYF more than hate him. GJ may not be the smartest person in the world, but he learnt that vengeance is not the best way.

    It shows how enlightened he became in ROCH, when he still treats the insane OYF in a polite manner.
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    You guys forgot one very important thing. Guo Jing had a big lesson on revenge and its consequences at the end of LOCH. As he blindly pursued HNHL, he led Genghis Khan's army to conquer city after city, and in the last battle, got many innocent civillians killed (well GK ordered that, not entirely his fault). The followed up incidents led to HR leaving him (he thought she commited suicide) and his mother killed herself to free him from duty to the Khan. The whole event scared him off seeking revenge for the rest of his life. I don't think he felt much pity for OYF (he did think so at the end when he saw OYF go insane as he got together with HR again) but it was the deaths that happened as a result of his seeking revenge that got to him. It almost made him quit "doing the right thing" too, but luckily QCJ and HQG were there for him and got him back on the right track.

    If you wonder where the "Ying Xiong" or "Hero" in that novel's title comes from (and why not just something "Xia" like Yang Guo's Shen Diao Xia Lu), those last chapters give you the answer.
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    I read one person's essay somewhere that he thinks GJ identifies with OYF on a subconscious level. He points to GJ and OYF's reliance on simple and straight forward kung fu, and how OYF was one of the few to praise GJ. He also says that he reacted with such rage at HYS because HYS was very different than him - kung fu style was different, 20 million times smarter, and HYS didn't like GJ.

    Interesting thought, but take it with a grain of salt. However, do note that he was rather wimpy with Genghis Khan too after GK forced his mom to kill herself. He definitely had respect and gratitude towards GK, so it is possible that he feels something for OYF along the same lines.
    ----

    My personal view is that GJ is just not a very consistent man. When you compared LOCH and ROCH, you can see a number of contradictions and hypocricy in this man. He gets these ideas ingrained into his brain and he is VERY committed to these ideas. I've said before that his mentality is like that of a terrorist - not in the sense that he kills civilians but in the sense that he is extremely committed to his cause.

    ------
    re: Athena's point. GJ's intelligence is below average, no doubt about it, but he's not retarded. The example Athena raises does not prove he's not dumb, because being dumb does not equal utter inability to reason. GJ didn't start talking until he was 3 or 4. No normal person starts to talk that late.
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    Senior Member duguxiaojing's Avatar
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    My personal view is that GJ is just not a very consistent man. When you compared LOCH and ROCH, you can see a number of contradictions and hypocricy in this man. He gets these ideas ingrained into his brain and he is VERY committed to these ideas. I've said before that his mentality is like that of a terrorist - not in the sense that he kills civilians but in the sense that he is extremely committed to his cause.
    I was thinking about this as well. GJ loved GF, but after GF chopped off YG's arm, no one in the family would even mention YG's name in fear that GJ would lose his temper and go off on GF. Seeing that GX did not know who YG was, it seems that was still angry about the event even throughout the sixteen years.

    Even though GJ loved GF, he almost chopped off her arm she for what she did to YG. OYF killed 5(?) of his masters, it was said that his hate for OYF was as deep as the ocean, i'm curious to know why he did not search for OYF when he realized that he was still alive. Also, as KC mentioned before he *seemed pretty relaxed when he met the crazed OYF and greeted him politely, only KZ-E seemed enraged. Wasn't OYF's crime far more serious then what GF did to YG? Why wasnt he furious the way he was with GF?

    ________Anyways for some reason GJ is proboally one of my most favorite characters. The sincere love he shows YG is extremely touching and he is a true patriot and hero.... but still some things he does in the novel are a bit extreme and frightening.
    wow..04-08....4 years just like that..time flies..

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duguxiaojing
    I
    Even though GJ loved GF, he almost chopped off her arm she for what she did to YG. OYF killed 5(?) of his masters, it was said that his hate for OYF was as deep as the ocean, i'm curious to know why he did not search for OYF when he realized that he was still alive. Also, as KC mentioned before he *seemed pretty relaxed when he met the crazed OYF and greeted him politely, only KZ-E seemed enraged. Wasn't OYF's crime far more serious then what GF did to YG? Why wasnt he furious the way he was with GF?
    Because Gwok Jing didn't raise Au Yeung Fung.

    Gwok Jing was angry at Gwok Fu, but subconsciously, he was probably angry at himself as well. Some part of him probably had recognized that if he and Wong Yung had taught Gwok Fu better, then Yeung Gor's loss of limb would probably not have happened. Au Yeung Fung was an enemy combatant, and what he did was beyond Gwok Jing's control and not Gwok Jing's responsibility. What Gwok Fu did, however, *was* Gwok Jing's responsibility. Gwok Jing wasn't obliged to hate Au Yeung Fung, but was obliged to discipline Gwok Fu.

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    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    What Gwok Fu did, however, *was* Gwok Jing's responsibility. Gwok Jing wasn't obliged to hate Au Yeung Fung, but was obliged to discipline Gwok Fu.
    But as pointed out earlier, the death of his 5 teachers puts 5 obligations on him each one at least as important as his duty to discipline GF.

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    Senior Member duguxiaojing's Avatar
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    Gwok Jing was angry at Gwok Fu, but subconsciously, he was probably angry at himself as well. Some part of him probably had recognized that if he and Wong Yung had taught Gwok Fu better, then Yeung Gor's loss of limb would probably not have happened.
    Good point KC, I agree with you about this one.

    Au Yeung Fung was an enemy combatant, and what he did was beyond Gwok Jing's control and not Gwok Jing's responsibility. What Gwok Fu did, however, *was* Gwok Jing's responsibility. Gwok Jing wasn't obliged to hate Au Yeung Fung, but was obliged to discipline Gwok Fu.
    hmm....this one is little harder to accept. Like CC said he killed Gj's teachers, GJ believed that disrespecting your teacher could be punishable by death, he was intent on killing YG for wanting to marry XLN.....if YG did not bare any resembalance to YK there might have been a good chance that he would have died that day. OYF KILLED or was resposible for the deaths of 5(6 if u count 7G)of his teacher...why wasnt he enraged the way the way he was with YG?, why didnt he go after and kill OYF? Although GJ maybe be extreme in his views, his character is very inconsitent at times...

    Another example I could think of is when GJ had a solider imprisoned and beheaded for falling asleep while on duty(but it never came 2 be as GX freed him). I'm not saying that he is right or wrong for doing so...but earlier on in the novel he let some mongolian soliders go with a warning because they had served him in the past IIRC....

    Again im not saying what GJ did was right or wrong...personally I like the less serious GJ from early LOCH, then older one at the end of ROCH, but some of his actions are very strange...and even questionable??
    wow..04-08....4 years just like that..time flies..

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    Senior Member HuangYushi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duguxiaojing
    Another example I could think of is when GJ had a solider imprisoned and beheaded for falling asleep while on duty(but it never came 2 be as GX freed him). I'm not saying that he is right or wrong for doing so...but earlier on in the novel he let some mongolian soliders go with a warning because they had served him in the past IIRC....
    Two different situations that needed two different ways of handling.

    Xiangyang was at war. The soldier was part of the people charged with keeping the city and its inhabitants safe. That was his duty and responsibility. If he fell asleep while on duty, he deserved to be punished. I do not have the exact passage on hand at the moment, but it is likely that Guo Jing meted out such a serious punishment (imprisonment + beheading) because he had to instill discipline in his troops. Given that the Song military was generally not as disciplined as their Mongolian counterparts, Guo Jing (who had fought on the Mongolian side before) could have felt it necessary to be harsh. Sunzi also recommended instilling very strict on one's troops, more so during times of active war.

    The Mongolian soldiers whom Guo Jing released fought on the "enemy" side. Since they served him in the past, there was already a relationship, plus probably a significant amount of respect, especially because Guo Jing was once (almost) a Mongolian. So to Xiangyang the city, and especially Guo Jing the person, releasing these guys could be considered the wartime equivalent of a PR job. Once they got back to their camp, they were likely to tell their friends what happened, so the more the Mongolian soldiers got to know about Guo Jing and his apparent generosity, the higher the chances would be for a more hesitant Mongolian side in the battlefield.
    Last edited by HuangYushi; 01-19-06 at 07:03 PM.
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    I agree with flyingfox2002 and duguxiaojing.

    Although Guo Jing is one of my most favorite characters, I do find his character was not well developed. (Rather than calling him inconsistent, I'll just blamed it on Jin Yong and call it bad character development :-) )

    An example is Yang Kang, who was involved in killing his 5 masters. Yet when Guo Jing find out, from what I remember, he had no hatred toward Yang Kang. He just blamed himself for not being able to convince his sworn brother. And for Huang Rong who was clearly not involved in killing his master, but with the possibility of her father being the culprit; he turned his back on her.

    This might be due to telling a story, and trying to create tension for the readers. But I find it quite inconsistent. I used to reason that he loved Huang Rong, that is why he was angry at her. But why not Yang Kang. IMO, he had an unreasonable soft spot toward the "Yangs".
    Last edited by TaiHan; 01-19-06 at 06:28 PM.

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    Moderator CrazyT's Avatar
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    There's one more reason why GJ reacted differently when he thought the killer was HYS. And that is the feeling of betrayal. At the time, HYS was GJ future father-in-law. There's a relationship there.

    Who would you be more angry with? Your girlfriend for cheating on you or the guy who she cheated with? Remember, the key words here are more angry.
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    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    There's only one keyword: angrier. I agree with you though.
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

    "I disapprove of what I say, but I will defend to the death my right to say it."

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    Another part of ROCH that I found very disturbing was that when GJ found out YG was "dating" his master, he was going to kill YG for YG's own good so that YG does not embarrass himself and his family lineage. Mind you, GJ wanted to kill YG not because he or XLN hurt anyone, but simply because they violated the Confucian master/apprentice (teacher/pupil) relationship. In his youth, GJ eloped with HR, the daughter of a much vilified "monster," ignoring the commands of his masters and the QuanZhen Taoists. But that was ok.

    GJ is just so into Confucian principles that he is almost scary. Not much different from religious extremists, as I said before.
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