Yan 13

[PJ]

Hi! Can anyone tell me more about this Yan Shi San guy? Sounds like a villian.

OK, I know a little bit about Yan Shisan - that he was an equal of Sword God Xie Xiaofeng in YOUNG THIRD MASTER'S SWORD. I'd like to find out more information.

What was his background? Was he a villain or neutral? What was his ultimate fate?

(Also, I think he was involved with government affairs, right?)

TigerWong or any Gu Long expert, please help me and Humplewumps understand this man better.

[Siven]

My recollection of The Third Young Master's Sword is hazy, but I don't think he's a villain. Above all he was a swordsman true to his heart and only wanted to be the best, so he was determined to challenge Xie Xiaofeng, the heir to the most famous jian master family. In their battle he discovered in a moment of ephiphany a 13th (or some other number) movement to his existing techniques, but thought that the move was too evil or something to let it pass on into the world, so he decided to kill himself instead (um ok). Xie Xiaofeng later admitted that he was not the winner of their fight, though he came away alive. This also affected Xie Xiaofeng so deeply that he went into seclusion to devote himself to the mastery of the jian, and as a result his daughter grew up all evil and twisted like another version of Lin Xian-Er (the femme fatale from Dagger Li).

[Ken Cheng]

My recollection of The Third Young Master's Sword is hazy, but I don't think he's a villain. Above all he was a swordsman true to his heart and only wanted to be the best, so he was determined to challenge Xie Xiaofeng, the heir to the most famous jian master family. In their battle he discovered in a moment of ephiphany a 13th (or some other number) movement to his existing techniques, but thought that the move was too evil or something to let it pass on into the world, so he decided to kill himself instead (um ok). Xie Xiaofeng later admitted that he was not the winner of their fight, though he came away alive. This also affected Xie Xiaofeng so deeply that he went into seclusion to devote himself to the mastery of the jian, and as a result his daughter grew up all evil and twisted like another version of Lin Xian-Er (the femme fatale from Dagger Li).

I believe it was the 15th move of Yin 13 that was said to be invincible.

The ending of the duel between Yin 13 and Tse Hiu Fung had shades of Yip Goo Sing and Sai Mun Chui Sheut's duel. This must have been a recurring motif in Gu Long's novels.

[bliss]

** WARNING - SPOILERS ABOUND **

At the beginning of Sword of the Third Master, Yan Shisan was supposed to duel with Xie Xiaofeng. Along the way, Yan Shisan runs into an old lover of Xie Xiaofeng who hated him so much that she reveals his swordsmanship to Yan Shisan. When Yan sees the techniques of the Third Master, he was in awe. But, just when Yan Shisan finally makes his way to Godly Sword Mountain Manor, the attendants tell him that the Third Master is dead. Yan Shisan is crushed by the news, knowing that he now will never be able to face off against the greatest swordsman of the time. Yan Shisan throws his sword into Green Water Lake and retreats into seclusion.

The story picks up several years later with Ah Ji as the main protagonist. We find out that this is really Xie Xiaofeng. Along the years he grew tired and loathsome of his celebrity status in wulin. Everyone wanted to challenge him and this caused nothing but headaches. So he decided to fake his own death and change his identity. But soon, his past catches up with him and he is forced to reveal his identity once again.

Xie Xiaofeng eventually runs into a disciple of Yan Shisan, who claims that Yan Shisan was able to force his 13 Soul Snatching Swords into a 14th sword, one that was inspired by the Third Master's awesome swordplay. When demonstrated, Xie Xiaofeng admitted that Yan Shisan's Sword 14 was indeed greater than his sword techniques.

Towards the end, Yan Shisan resurfaces, and the duel between these two otherworldly sword masters is inevitable. Xie Xiaofeng reveals to Yan Shisan's disciple that after studying his Sword 14, he had figured out a way to break it. But Xie Xiaofeng postulated that by now Yan Shisan had probably pushed his technique into a 15th sword.

He was right. During their duel, Yan Shisan was forced to unleash the unreal power of Sword 15. But when he did, he realized that it wasn't a sword technique at all, it was Death itself. When Sword 15 was used, someone had to die. He realized that this wasn't the epitome of swordsmanship, this was only destruction. Yan Shisan decided that such a vicious technique shouldn't exist in the world anymore so he turned his Sword 15 on himself, killing himself and sparing Xie Xiaofeng.

Xie Xiaofeng spends much of the rest of his life trying to figure out a technique that could break Sword 15. It wasn't until he was inspired by Ding Pang in Full Moon Curved Sabre that he was finally able to surpass Sword 15.

[Candide]

Swordnerdism at its extreme.

[bliss]

Swordnerdism at its extreme.

Gu Long's swordplay philosophies are one of Candide's favorite aspects of wuxia.

[Candide]

Gu Long's swordplay philosophies are one of Candide's favorite aspects of wuxia.

Yep!

I thought The Duel was the ultimate of swordnerdism, you know, that "where's your sword? It's in the mind. I'm nerdier than you: it's up my bum" talk... but this is 10 times better. Some nerd, after years and years of hard work, came up with a killer move that defeats everyone, but killed himself with it because he thought it was too deadly? Hello, you're fighting with real swords, mate, not rolled up newspaper. Every move is meant to be deadly.

I bet GL (may he rest in peace) may yet still have some surprise for me though. I'll eventually come across another novel of his about the nerdiest swordsman who humps his sword instead of his pillow when he goes to bed.

[Ken Cheng]

But Candide, I bet you'd take ten novels of Gu Long's swordnerds rather than another chapter of Yeung Gor whining about his "Goo Goo" and how nobody loves him.

I know I would.

[PJ]

bliss: Thank you very much. I enjoyed reading your summary.

Now I have even more respect for the self-sacrificing Yan 13.

Here are some pictures of my hero from the 2002 Mainland adaption - I must say the actor has a unique face:

[CC]

Basically, the idiot killed himself for nothing since he was wrong about Sword 15 then. If XXF could come up with a counter for it later, then Sword 15 wasn't all that Yan 13 thought it was right?

He should have hung around to come up with Sword 16 after XXF countered Sword 15.

Now, another stupid thing. If XXF had seen Yan 13 perform Sword 15 (he must have seen the technique fully to be able to think of a counter for it. If he hadn't seen the technique, his subsequent counter must have been bullcrap right?), then WTF did Yan 13 kill himself for? He killed himself to eradicate Sword 15 but if XXF had seen it, he should have killed XXF as well to remove all traces.

Conculsion. GL had 13 (or was it 15?) too many drinks.

[PJ]

What the hell are you talking about?

It sounds to me like Yan 13 realized that he made a mistake, yes. He realized that his achievement is not what he really wanted. Since he unleashed his sword and someone had to die, because he respected Xie Xiaofeng as a swordsman, he sacrificed his own life to save Xie.

Bliss said: Yan Shisan decided that such a vicious technique shouldn't exist in the world anymore so he turned his Sword 15 on himself, killing himself and sparing Xie Xiaofeng.

CC said: if XXF had seen it, he should have killed XXF as well to remove all traces. Well, I don't know how the story goes, but I am almost certain that Yan 13 had a great deal of respect for Xie, and Yan knew that Xie would not use the evil Sword 15 to do harm (a gut feeling, if you will). That's why Yan didn't kill Xie.

Basically, Yan 13 invented his self destruction. But, he at least had the decency to stop when he realized his mistake, unlike many scumbags in wuxia who proceeded with their evil martial arts (Ding Chunqiu for example) to harm others. And yet, here people are, blasting Yan 13 for killing himself, while I NEVER ONCE HEARD ANY CRITICISM AGAINST A DIRG BAG LIKE DING CHUNQIU.

[TigerWong]

XXF couldn't come up with a counter to it before Ding Peng came along. Basically, he went into seclusion in order to try and come up with one. When Ding Peng arrived to challenge him, it took XXF's 4 bodyguards to execute Sword 15, and even then it is unlikely that they matched Yan13's inner strength and destructive force. That being said, Ding Peng still gets props for countering the technique itself.

[CC]

Bliss said: Yan Shisan decided that such a vicious technique shouldn't exist in the world anymore so he turned his Sword 15 on himself, killing himself and sparing Xie Xiaofeng.

CC said: if XXF had seen it, he should have killed XXF as well to remove all traces. Well, I don't know how the story goes, but I am almost certain that Yan 13 had a great deal of respect for Xie, and Yan knew that Xie would not use the evil Sword 15 to do harm (a gut feeling, if you will). That's why Yan didn't kill Xie.

Basically, Yan 13 invented his self destruction. But, he at least had the decency to stop when he realized his mistake, unlike many scumbags in wuxia who proceeded with their evil martial arts (Ding Chunqiu for example) to harm others. And yet, here people are, blasting Yan 13 for killing himself, while I NEVER ONCE HEARD ANY CRITICISM AGAINST A DIRG BAG LIKE DING CHUNQIU.

You don't find the rationale and the plot device incredibly stupid and over-contrived?

[IcyFox]

But, he at least had the decency to stop when he realized his mistake, unlike many scumbags in wuxia who proceeded with their evil martial arts (Ding Chunqiu for example) to harm others. And yet, here people are, blasting Yan 13 for killing himself, while I NEVER ONCE HEARD ANY CRITICISM AGAINST A DIRG BAG LIKE DING CHUNQIU.

I have now...


But there's no need for that. The whole world knows he's (Ding Chun Qiu) a scum bag. (Unless there's a debate on who's the bigger scum of the earth) It's like no one really criticises the Golden Wheel Monk for being such a big bastard but there were many who blasted GJ and HR for their niggardly treatment towards YG.

[CFT]

I thought The Duel was the ultimate of swordnerdism, you know, that "where's your sword? It's in the mind. I'm nerdier than you: it's up my bum" talk... but this is 10 times better. Some nerd, after years and years of hard work, came up with a killer move that defeats everyone, but killed himself with it because he thought it was too deadly? Hello, you're fighting with real swords, mate, not rolled up newspaper. Every move is meant to be deadly.

Your bias is all too obvious and in this case misplaced.

The ideal in swordmanship is that the wielder controls the sword and not vice versa. If sword 15 required a kill if executed, no matter the will of the wielder then it does not meet the criteria of higher sword skills.

[maxwell]

candide,

i think u missed out the entire philosophy of wuxia novels....when u brand it as swordnerdism...if that is the case then the sweeper monk in demi-gods and semi-devils and all the shaolin monks should also be branded as nerds...and all the way up to fok yuen kap (the founder of chin woo men, as he also stresses like they do this immortal principle: learning martial arts is for the physical well being of the body. karate / tae kwan do--all embodies this principle) with the sweeper monk being the head of nerds since he told xiao yuan sun and mo rung bo that no point in learning the highest skills of martial arts if u don't have buddhist precepts (being merciful is one) forming the basis...

xiao li fei dao, ah fei, sai moon chui suet can achieve the status of kim sum because the sword is already in their mind---they are the sword...this holism in wuxia philosophy is reflective of geat philosophical traditions stemming from taoism in the east and heideggerianism in the west---that is why they can use twigs from a tree as a weapon

u should be reading louis l'amour and books on frontier justice and not wuxia novels.

the wuxia novels of jin yong and gu lung are the most wonderful moments and creations in the wuxia novel history because they contain rich philosophies both from the east and west in their unique story-telling styles.

[Candide]

You don't find the rationale and the plot device incredibly stupid and over-contrived?

You missed the plot, mate, just like me. Apparently it's easier to turn the sword around and stab yourself in the chest than to, oh I don't know, drop it, perhaps? Seriously I think that's a novel idea! We don't know shit about wuxia anyway, CC, so we might be both wrong.

[maxwell]

if u have a problem with gu lung's way of ending the character of yan shi san..--committing suicide...then u should also question whether there was a need for xiao feng to kill himself in demi-gods and semi-devils...then u should question whether it was necessary for duan yu's father to kill himself also...then u should question whether it was necessary for zhang wu ji parents to commit suicide also...in the end there won't be any wuxia novels that u will enjoy...

when u bring into wuxia novels modern day values of suicide, honor, and death, then alot of things in wuxia novels won't make sense to you..the basis of the whole genre would not hold and fall apart. u simply cannot judge how these people behave during those times using modern day values...

from a modern day perspective, the movie blue velvet wouldn't make sense to u either...why should dennis hopper in blue velvet holds the husband of a woman hostage so that he can sexually abuse her nightly...why does kyle maclalan finds it interesting to hide in the woman's closet nightly to watch her abuse by dennis hopper..and why would the sherriff's daughter help kyle to hide in the woman's closet and fall in love with someone with such interests...

if gu lung wrote such novels because he was intoxicated then david lynch (the director of blue velvet ) must definitely be high on heroin..because the backdrop of his tale is small town america where conservatism rules..yet his characters behave differently from the norms of the day...is it realistic? yes it is. and why is it realistic--because in life, in real actual life, bizzare things do happen...it is just that people have a hard time in accepting facts. small town america may not be at all that innocent.


when reading gu lung and jin yong, it is best not to judge the characters according the values of our time.

[tape]

I think what they mean is it's kind of silly and illogical for someone to HAVE to kill someone once a technique was unleashed, even if that someone is yourself. That just doesn't make any sense. You can uhh just stop halfway can't you? If he unleashed the technique on XXF originally, the sword should be pointing in his direction, yet instead of dropping the sword when he realizes its dark evil blah blah he has to turn it around to stab himself?

[bliss]

What's so hard to accept about a martial arts that is evil and unorthodox so much so that the user can't control it? Same thing happened to Linghu Chong in XAJH when he learned Ren Woxing's Star Absorbing Stance. He couldn't help absorbing other people's internal energy and in several instances he admitted that he couldn't control it himself. Same idea as applied to Yin Shisan's Sword 15. You guys are just too used to Jin Yong's mold of martial arts philosophies so it makes most of what Gu Long writes seem illogical and much more fantastical. Even so, Jin Yong has some wild stuff that's really out there as well. (Highest level QQDNY that changes nature and the heavens?)

Anyway, don't base your judgement on my short summary. I may have put across the wrong meanings and so forth in my rushed attempt. I assure you the original passage sounds so cool that you can't help but suspend your beliefs and logic and wow in the glow that is Gu Long.