Shi Huo Long

[PJ]

do we know anything about Shi Huolong's martial arts level, other than that: 1) he crippled himself while learning the 18 Dragon Palms, resulting in the mastery of only 12 palms, and 2) after some palm clashes with Cheng Kun, both parties were injured?

Like someone else pointed out, I think he must be very good to do (minor) damage to Cheng Kun. Actually he might be as powerful as the Wudang heroes and the Ming Cult lords. But I would guess he is sometimes ranked lower because of Yelu Qi. Yelu Qi is supposed to have mastered XL18Z, and yet during his heydays he couldn't even beat Huo Du. So some people may think that Shi Huolong should be weaker than Yelu Qi because Shi only learned 12 palms.

[Ken Cheng]

TVB's 1986 adaptation of HSDS is notorious for having demeaned the image of Shih For Lung. In this adaptation, it took all of two moves for Sing Kwun to throw Shih unceremoniously out a window, and Shih subsequently landed on his face, dead. Sing then laughed at the impotency of "Hong Lung 18 Palms".

Kiu Fung, Hung 7 Gung, and Gwok Jing must have been spinning in their graves...

[Han Solo]

But I would guess he is sometimes ranked lower because of Yelu Qi. Yelu Qi is supposed to have mastered XL18Z, and yet during his heydays he couldn't even beat Huo Du. So some people may think that Shi Huolong should be weaker than Yelu Qi because Shi only learned 12 palms.

From the text from ROCH, YLQ only lost to HD due to the sudden change where HD causes the whole arena to be darkened and uses his core martial arts.

If they were to fight strength to strength, YLQ would win.

[duguxiaojing]

Like someone else pointed out, I think he must be very good to do (minor) damage to Cheng Kun. Actually he might be as powerful as the Wudang heroes and the Ming Cult lords. But I would guess he is sometimes ranked lower because of Yelu Qi. Yelu Qi is supposed to have mastered XL18Z, and yet during his heydays he couldn't even beat Huo Du. So some people may think that Shi Huolong should be weaker than Yelu Qi because Shi only learned 12 palms.

I'm not sure if YLQ had even learned the 18DP at that point. He was using QZ martial arts and ZBT's VF technique through out the tournament IIRC. Also at this point YLQ was only in his late 30's or early 40's, IIRC he was a bit older then YG so proboally not in his prime.

[PJ]

From the text from ROCH, YLQ only lost to HD due to the sudden change where HD causes the whole arena to be darkened and uses his core martial arts.

If they were to fight strength to strength, YLQ would win.

But Huo Do was only using secondary martial arts to fight Yelu Qi, the result was that Yelu Qi started gaining upper hand after 80 or so stances. Had Huo Do used his best skills, it could have gone either way.

[SolidSnake]

Huo Do were using various styles the best he could until Yelu Qi forced him to use his real style out of desperation of defeat. And Yelu Qi was a generation under Huo Do who was about the same age as Guo Jing. Not a bad show of skill. Off course Yelu is not Yang Guo, we're talking different talent here.

Back to Shi Huolong, I think it's safe to assume that his talent for martial arts was nowhere near that of Guo Jing.
When Guo Jing fought Mei Chaofeng using up till 15th palms, more or less it was only a draw. Using only up to 12th palm after being poisoned (or backstabbed IIRC) and yet able to injure the famous Cheng Kun to the point that he has to hide to recuperate, I would say Shi was quite good. Either that or the characters of LOCH-ROCH were unearthly awesome.

[CFT]

I didn't think the 18 palms formed a progression in attainment, just that different palms were suited to different situations/scenarios, e.g. responding to aerial attack, attack from rear, etc.

So not having the full set of palms shouldn't limit the power or effectiveness of any particular palm. I guess that there would be gaps in your game since you don't have an effective response in some situations.

Most real martial arts have seed forms where all the basics are there. If you train hard then the essense of your art will come out. No need to collect loads and loads of forms.

My guess is that a talented MA should be able to re-create the missing palms.

Anyway, to get back to the point: Shi Huo Long must have had significant inner power to be able to injure Cheng Kun; which seems at odds with the reason for his fire deviation.

[Western Eccentric]

The former Gaibang elder Fang Dongbai (A Da) was arguably the best fighter among the "A Trio" under ZM (even without Heaven Sword) so SHL should be not far from A Da level since he's the leader of Gaibang IMHO..

[hyoyatika]

The former Gaibang elder Fang Dongbai (A Da) was arguably the best fighter among the "A Trio" under ZM (even without Heaven Sword) so SHL should be not far from A Da level since he's the leader of Gaibang IMHO..

Very good point.