zhu ge liang vs huang rong (with a side order of steppemen vs. agrarians debate)

[LuNaR]

who is smarter? i know everybody will say zhu ge liang b/c he is good at war tactics, but HR got street smart and also has the book left by ngok fei + she has smarts from her dad

[Linda]

if HR only got her 'war tactics' from ngok fei's book...and zhu ge liang used his own head...wouldn't that make zhu ge liang smarter?

[Bai Qi44]

who is smarter? i know everybody will say zhu ge liang b/c he is good at war tactics, but HR got street smart and also has the book left by ngok fei + she has smarts from her dad

Depends on which Zhuge Liang you're comparing the fictional Huang Rong too. If it's the novel Zhuge Liang, then no contest. If it's the historical Zhuge Liang, then it becomes a bit tricky although Huang Rong never did overcome the Mongolians with her wits. I think she did help Gwok Jing take down a city owned by the Jurchens though (can't remember).

[IcyFox]

Zhuge Liang wouldn't have been so paranoid over YG, in any case... He'd definitely be able to predict what YG would do next.

Next time anyone going to a temple to ask for lottery numbers should go find him.

[kidd]

What about Zhang Liang? Is he smarter than these 2 people?

[Extremer88]

The fourth of the Wudang 7 Heroes.. Zhang Songyi is also a pretty-good strategist and also calm.

[Thai guy]

If Huang Rong would be as smart as Zhuge Liang, Xiang Yang fortress would not be easily destroyed and both HR and GJ would not die.

[IcyFox]

What about Zhang Liang? Is he smarter than these 2 people?

Based on Mr. LGZ's novel, probably not even Sun Zi can beat him. He's a God in that story.

[kidd]

Based on Mr. LGZ's novel, probably not even Sun Zi can beat him. He's a God in that story.

Who is Mr.LGZ?
Well, Zhang Liang was pretty smart in real life to according too historical text. The chinese even has a saying based on him.

你有张良计我有过墙梯

[IcyFox]

Mr. LGZ?

Luo Guan Zhong, author of San Guo Yan Yi (Romance of the Three Kingdoms).

The saying sounds familiar...

[yittz]

Zhu ge liang didnt manage to defeat the other two kingdoms either.

[IcyFox]

Zhu ge liang didnt manage to defeat the other two kingdoms either.

Because of Sima Yi. If he wasn't there Wei would surely collapse. When that happens Wu would have to yield. At least he helped that useless bum Liu Bei rise to be a powerful warlord.

It's unlikely Huang Rong could have succeeded where Kong Ming failed.

[yittz]

I agree. But in a swap, I dont think ZGL would have succeeded in defending against the Mongols.

ZGL was essentially in command of the whole kingdom, whereas HR had to contend with a corrupt government.

I just think using HR's failure at defending Xiang Yang shouldn't be a valid arguement for her inferiority to ZGL in the field of intelligence. I think most would agree that if it wasn't for the established history, HR and the greats should have succeeded.

Are we judging IQ or stored knowledge or cunningness (street smart)?

[no_name]

Zhu Ge Liang had ever said:" If I get another twelve years, then Han Dynasty will survive". And we know Zhu Ge Liang defeat Mongol army 7 times before they surrender. Zhang Liang(Hang Shi Gong) of course, is very smart. But, in the history, they had ever said ,Zhang Liang sometimes asked for a help from Chen Ping when Liu Bang ran back to Han Zhong from Xiang Yu. I think Zhu Ge Liang is the greatest strategist in the China History, maybe greater than Sun Bing or Ziang Zi Ya(at least same).

[yittz]

Wasn't it a Southern tribe that he defeated, not Mongols? Even if it were Mongols, hardly a fair comparison, when the Mongols Song was facing pretty much wiped out every nation standing in its way.

[Extremer88]

Wasn't it a Southern tribe that he defeated, not Mongols? Even if it were Mongols, hardly a fair comparison, when the Mongols Song was facing pretty much wiped out every nation standing in its way.

What Mongols? There were noT much signs of mongolians during the Three Kingdoms era, are you referring to the "Qiang" kingdom?

[yittz]

What Mongols? There were noT much signs of mongolians during the Three Kingdoms era, are you referring to the "Qiang" kingdom?

Xiong Nu (eastern Huns) were in the North. The Qiang kingdom was in the south no? It was described as a hot climate no?

[Bai Qi44]

Zhu Ge Liang had ever said:" If I get another twelve years, then Han Dynasty will survive". And we know Zhu Ge Liang defeat Mongol army 7 times before they surrender. Zhang Liang(Hang Shi Gong) of course, is very smart. But, in the history, they had ever said ,Zhang Liang sometimes asked for a help from Chen Ping when Liu Bang ran back to Han Zhong from Xiang Yu. I think Zhu Ge Liang is the greatest strategist in the China History, maybe greater than Sun Bing or Ziang Zi Ya(at least same).

I doubt you'll find one single Chinese historian agreeing with you when you say Zhuge Liang is the best or tie with the best strategist in Chinese history. Don't let dumb sayings that were influence by LGZ's novel be part of your agruement cause that's not valid. Zhuge Liang wasn't even close to the best strategist when it comes to the Three Kingdoms and definately can not compare to such people as Ziang Zi Ya or Zhang Liang.

I can name off hand a bunch of people who were smarter than the "historical" Zhuge Liang from the 3 Kingdoms era. Cao Cao, Zhou Yu, Sima Yi, Deng Ai, Lu Meng, etc...

[strife_au]

zhu ge liang winz0r

[The Khan]

Historically the only thing Zhuge Liang was good at doing was retreating. The successful campaigns that Liu Bei had after Chi Bi were all planned by Pang Tong.

The Shu campaign was vs the Nan Man in the Yun nan area of China. To even compare them with the great Mongol empire under Chingis Khan shows ignorance.

The Mongol empire at the time of Chingis's death comprised of almost half the known world and had destroyed countless mighty empires like the Khwarazam empire in the middle east and had the Europeans cowering in fear of the devil's from the east after thier massive defeat in Hungary.