zhu ge liang vs huang rong (with a side order of steppemen vs. agrarians debate)

[pannonian]

That is what made them barbarians, less than human being. If you think barbaric society is better than civilization, then you should compare some African and middle eastern countries that being ruled by war lords or dictators to civilized countries like US, Canada, Australia, ect. Which ones is better? I think the answer is obvious.



Definitely not me. My ancestor is Teochew. I would be ashamed if my ancestor was Genghis Khan. Genghis Khan was no different than Hitler. If he lives in modern day society, he would be convicted of genocide against humanity.

I think you should have a look at what the pioneers of these civilisations got up to. I live in the birthplace of modern liberal democracy, the country that spawned the likes of the US, Canada, Australia, etc. There is little illusion here about the bloodiness of English/British history. That we've moved on from these times doesn't mean those times didn't exist. And you know what? We were probably one of the less bad colonial powers from that period.

[Ken Cheng]

Definitely not me. My ancestor is Teochew. I would be ashamed if my ancestor was Genghis Khan. Genghis Khan was no different than Hitler. If he lives in modern day society, he would be convicted of genocide against humanity.

You might not have a choice in the matter.

[Banh Mi]

We are all descendants of Lucy and Genghis Khan.

Haha, I'm pretty sure that quote was taken from Genghis Khan. You can find an almost exact quote like that from Genghis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBGOQ7SsJrw

[Ken Cheng]

Haha, I'm pretty sure that quote was taken from Genghis Khan. You can find an almost exact quote like that from Genghis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBGOQ7SsJrw

It was adapted from Genghis' original statement; of course, Ah-nuld looked cooler saying it.

[kidd]

When thinking of Zhuge Liang, the Jin Yong character I was reminded of is Cheng Ling Su. Both can think of effective scheme that works even after they died. ZGL scared away Sima Yi after his death, while CLS knew exactly how Hu Fei will react after she died and make sure he doesn't do something stupid.

[Trien Chieu]

The Mongolian leaders were afraid that they would suffer the same fate as the Khitans and Jurchens before them: they would adopt Chinese habits and Chinese vices, and become decadent and lose the discipline and martial character that had enabled them to achieve victory in the first place.

In the end, those fears materialized: the Yuan rulers who lost China to the resurgent Hans led by Chu Yeun Cheung and other rebels were *nothing* in character like Temujin and his sons.

Is this not the same in every dynasty? The emperor who found of the dynasty is always extremely intelligent, talented, and great ruler whereas the emperor who lost the kingdom to others always pretty much useless.

You might not have a choice in the matter.

Haha, my ancestor is 100% Teochew that had nothing to do with the Mongolians. We do not share any Mongolian values. We believe in hard work that lead to success. If we want anything that other people have, we work hard to earn the money so we can buy it. We don't rob/steal/loot it from others.

[Ken Cheng]

Is this not the same in every dynasty? The emperor who found of the dynasty is always extremely intelligent, talented, and great ruler whereas the emperor who lost the kingdom to others always pretty much useless.

The Yuan Dynasty lasted only around eighty years, which is significantly shorter than the average of around 300 years. I peg it to the Mongols being especially ill-suited to the administration needs of a large, settled, agrarian/urban society such as China's. Of all the imperial dynasties, the Yuan had the hardest time adjusting to administration. The Yuan Dynasty had exactly one successful emperor (Kublai) before things started falling apart.

Haha, my ancestor is 100% Teochew that had nothing to do with the Mongolians. We do not share any Mongolian values. We believe in hard work that lead to success. If we want anything that other people have, we work hard to earn the money so we can buy it. We don't rob/steal/loot it from others.

Many different ethnic groups have been in and out of China over the centuries, so short of performing an expensive DNA test, there's no way any of us will be sure. For all I know, one of my distant ancestors could have been an Arab.

You know, this guy in Hungary built a political career in his country hating on Jews, only to recently inconveniently discover his own Jewish roots.

If anybody ever got PWND, it's this guy.