New Series:Shao Nian Yang Jia Jiang starring Peter Ho, Hu Ge, Eddie Peng

[christinatran]

I think Guan Hong loved both Yelu Xie and Wu Lang, but in different ways. She and YLX shared a more passionate and fiery type of romance. There were sparks flying everywhere when Guan Hong was with YLX. YLX was the type of man that made her heart thunder rapidly each time he turned his dark, mesmerizing eyes on her. He represented danger, thrilling and adrenaline-pumping kisses in dark alleyways, wild and uninhibited sex. Wu Lang, on the other hand, was a safe harbor for Guan Hong. Where YLX was everything dark and exciting and uncertain, WL was calm, stable, and dependable. She loved him because he represented security. He was a good man, handsome, and came from a good family. He was Sung by nationality, and hence, the more politically correct choice. And loved her, just as YLX did, too. By choosing WL, Guan Hong made a sensible and safe choice, rather than gamble on a life with YLX.

To be honest, if I were Guan Hong, I would have trouble choosing, too. I like security that a man offers. What woman wouldn't? Every woman wants to know, with a relative degree of certainty, that the man she picks will give her a good life, won't cheat on her, and will love her to the very end. But sometimes, love is one big gamble. Nothing is an absolute guarantee.

 click to show spoilers

How could Guan Hong have guessed that WL would eventually leave her in the end? Perhaps, she would have been able to live happily ever after if she had only taken a chance and had chosen YLX instead...

I totally agree with you. I do believe that Guan Hong loves YLX but was afraid of the instability that his love offers. If I was Guan Hong I would choose Wu Long because even if WL was to die in the war (although we knew that was not the case) the Yang family would take of her and her brother. She will have family support; however, by choosing YLX if he was to die in the war, she would have no support. So it makes sense that GH chose WL in the end. That being said, I was rooting for GH and YLX the whole time because YLX is just too hot. YLX is the only reason that I continued to watch the series. The series is good; however, I normally don't watch long series because I lack the patience for it but YLX was such an eye candy that I have to continue watching the series. Normally I hate facial hair on a man, I love my man clean cut but I must say, that YLX is so fine with facial hair. I think Yuan Hong actually look better with a bit of facial hair to hide his baby face and make him more mature looking.

One thing I did not like about GH and WL relationship was how ambiguous GH display her feeling for WL. There was never any indication that GH even like WL and then Wham! she was in love with WL. I was scratching my head thinking when did their love even occurred or better yet, when did she start liking WL?

I do hope that Yuan Hong will do another series with similiar character like YLX albeit a good guy of course and he gets the girl in the end. I will definetly will watch his series. After watching the Yang series, I couldn't get enough of YLX and followed him to the new Legend of Condor Heroes. He is very handsome in the series but of course, since I'm an oldie, I still prefer Mui Kui Wai but Yuan Hong did a good job as the charismatic, charming, and scheming Yang Kang.

[Easter Lily]

This is a terrific series... immensely watchable. One of the best ensemble tv shows I've ever seen. The best part of it was the Yang family and their internal dynamic. The baddies though necessary to the plot were tedious by comparison. The Pan family are obviously people you're meant to loathe but strangely that Empress of Liao really irked me. So did that Princess of Liao. I found her actions regarding Silang at the end rather despicable... as despicable or even more despicable than anything the Pans did. Tian Ling was the obligatory ugly and almost invincible bad guy.

Yang Ye and Sai Hua were wonderful as the patriarch and matriarch of the brood.
Didn't really care for the love triangle between Ye Luxia, Guan Hong and Yang Wulang. Unlike everyone it seems, I spent most of the series scratching my head wondering what the two men saw in her. I suppose in some quarters she might be considered fiesty but not in a way I find appealing. Ye Luxia and Guan Hong really didn't do anything for me... thought they were an odd match. Lord, I must really be getting old. Even though Miss Luo was a bland sort of character, I thought at least she was a good match for Silang. Didn't mind Liulang and Princess Chai either although half the time they sort of palled around like a couple of kids.

The Golden Beach battle was undoubtedly a sobfest. Qilang broke my heart. When I rewatch the *cough*7bridesforsevenbrothers*cough good times, I feel rather more depressed when I think about how he ends up. Ah well... they died as they had lived. Such celebration of unabashed patriotism and family allegiance... such a breath of fresh air in such politically correct times.

[xiaolong]

Well, this is the series where Tangren signed up Liu Shi Shi to groom and train her. She was only 18 when she filmed this, so very raw.

Actually one of my favourite scenes was where Yelu Xie brought Lady Blacksmith to a cave to look at the stars or precious stones (can't remember which one). Then they both fell asleep. Wu lang went looking for Lady Blacksmith the next morning and saw both of them sleeping (full clothed) and went into a rage. It was quite amusing when Yelu Xie woke up, saw him and gestured to him to keep quiet by putting his finger to his mouth "Shhhhh!" as she was still asleep. Hee hee hee!

Another favourite scene was the last battle when the Yang widows pushed the intruding Liaos out of the gates - that was freakin' awesome! I can imagine the guys being shell-shocked seeing this team of lady warriors leading the battle. I also liked the way Lady Blacksmith grunted fiercely as she fought in battle.


I guess you are new to Tangren dramas. So far (IMO only) their best-written dramas were this one and Strange Hero Yi Zhi Mei. Their most successful in terms of viewership/ad revenues were Chinese Paladin 1 & 3 and Legend of the Condor Heroes 2008. But honestly, my friend who went on to watch Chinese Paladin 3 after Strange Hero and Young Warriors felt it was a terrible let-down despite its great cast. Well, if you are a Wallace Huo fan, maybe you'd be fine with his character in Chinese Paladin 3 (IMO, the only character in the series you won't keep wanting to steam to death). Personally, I got crept out by Liu Shi Shi's character there.

[mango_cake]

I agree, this is still in my top-favourite list of dramas and by far the best TR drama! I found it so refreshing that compared to other idol-type dramas, this one is more focused on the Yang family dynamics and loyalty to country, while the romance takes a back seat. I always feel the best stories are more focused on "bigger issues". I still enjoyed 6th & 7th's romances though--my favourite being 6th/Princess Chai. Easter Lily, I also didn't get the hype over the 5th/YLX/GH love triangle. There were some funny moments but neither 5th/GH or YLX/GH had much chemistry. And though I adore YH, and thought he did an awesome job as YLX, I couldn't bring myself to like the character because he was going against the Yang family. (I do like baddies in other series...I guess I just love the Yangs too much to sympathize with their enemies. XD) And LSS was still very raw and wooden back then so I found her romance with 4th pretty forgettable.

[Easter Lily]

Well, this is the series where Tangren signed up Liu Shi Shi to groom and train her. She was only 18 when she filmed this, so very raw.

Actually one of my favourite scenes was where Yelu Xie brought Lady Blacksmith to a cave to look at the stars or precious stones (can't remember which one). Then they both fell asleep. Wu lang went looking for Lady Blacksmith the next morning and saw both of them sleeping (full clothed) and went into a rage. It was quite amusing when Yelu Xie woke up, saw him and gestured to him to keep quiet by putting his finger to his mouth "Shhhhh!" as she was still asleep. Hee hee hee!

Another favourite scene was the last battle when the Yang widows pushed the intruding Liaos out of the gates - that was freakin' awesome! I can imagine the guys being shell-shocked seeing this team of lady warriors leading the battle. I also liked the way Lady Blacksmith grunted fiercely as she fought in battle.


I guess you are new to Tangren dramas. So far (IMO only) their best-written dramas were this one and Strange Hero Yi Zhi Mei. Their most successful in terms of viewership/ad revenues were Chinese Paladin 1 & 3 and Legend of the Condor Heroes 2008. But honestly, my friend who went on to watch Chinese Paladin 3 after Strange Hero and Young Warriors felt it was a terrible let-down despite its great cast. Well, if you are a Wallace Huo fan, maybe you'd be fine with his character in Chinese Paladin 3 (IMO, the only character in the series you won't keep wanting to steam to death). Personally, I got crept out by Liu Shi Shi's character there.

I'm new to everything really. I've lived in Oz for so long that I haven't seen too many Chinese dramas in recent years. But I started a couple of months ago to dig around.
I refuse to watch Chinese Paladin 3 because I hated Chinese Paladin 1. Which is kinda odd because I'm very fond of Hu Ge and Ady An. But they spent almost half the series bickering with not a lot happening which annoyed the heck out of me. The childishness and silliness of the show drove me nuts. I know they're supposed to be kids and all that but I gave up half way. Didn't care for the sfx either. I wasn't obviously part of that demographic.
Yang Jia Jiang, on the other hand, has got its fairshare of kids in it but they're kids with grownup ideas and sensibilities.
Yi Zhi Mei... well,, what else can I say that I haven't already said... it is brilliant upon brilliant. Wallace Huo was brilliant -- played essentially 3... maybe even 4 personalities in the show. Liu Shi Shi was terrific here also. Definitely maturing as a performer. Unfortunately for me it's probably going to be the benchmark for all their future performances. Only problem I had with it was too much Ruyi... sort of like Lord of the Rings having too much Arwen.

When you called Guan Hong "Lady Blacksmith" I had to laugh... it made me think of that South African singing group, Ladysmith Black Mombazo.

I agree, this is still in my top-favourite list of dramas and by far the best TR drama! I found it so refreshing that compared to other idol-type dramas, this one is more focused on the Yang family dynamics and loyalty to country, while the romance takes a back seat. I always feel the best stories are more focused on "bigger issues". I still enjoyed 6th & 7th's romances though--my favourite being 6th/Princess Chai. Easter Lily, I also didn't get the hype over the 5th/YLX/GH love triangle. There were some funny moments but neither 5th/GH or YLX/GH had much chemistry. And though I adore YH, and thought he did an awesome job as YLX, I couldn't bring myself to like the character because he was going against the Yang family. (I do like baddies in other series...I guess I just love the Yangs too much to sympathize with their enemies. XD) And LSS was still very raw and wooden back then so I found her romance with 4th pretty forgettable.

I adored the Yang family. Mum, Dad, brothers (especially 4, 6 and 7), Bamei (by golly, that girl is the family's secret weapon), even the meddling, garrulous sisters-in-law. To me everybody else was plot device.
I liked Yuan Hong in *shock, horror* Legend of the Condor Heroes. He was so intense, so conflicted... and his relationship with the Liu Shi Shi character, Mu Nianci was deliciously disturbing. His Ye Luxia was okay although I don't think he was as conflicted as he could have been about the way Liao was conducting the war.

[xiaolong]

IYi Zhi Mei... well,, what else can I say that I haven't already said... it is brilliant upon brilliant. Wallace Huo was brilliant -- played essentially 3... maybe even 4 personalities in the show. Liu Shi Shi was terrific here also. Definitely maturing as a performer. Unfortunately for me it's probably going to be the benchmark for all their future performances. Only problem I had with it was too much Ruyi... sort of like Lord of the Rings having too much Arwen.

I know. I rather they stick to the original plot where the protagonist's family was massacred, rather than this whole back story arc on a dead wife. John Woo's Reign of Assassins (2010) starring Michelle Yeoh, a movie which I adore, actually took on the original Iljimae story arc on family massacred and surviving son seeking revenge, then learning that revenge is not everything, what's most important is honour, etc etc. I know the whole LGX-Ruyi story was meant to be a stock romance about the heady feel of first love, but I seriously didn't care for them at all. And that's unusual given that I'm a hopeless romantic at heart. Sure, the two actors had a natural spark blah blah blah. But the flaw of this Ruyi back-story is that it made me sympathize too much with the villain and definitely not with her character which came across as irritatingly damsel-in-distress. How to sympathize with a damsel-in-distress after the way she treated her friend? It also made me very unsympathetic and annoyed about LGX's angst and depression over his Ruyi's death. I'd be a lot more sympathetic if it's his parents who were killed, like in Reign of Assassins. I totally disagree with comments saying LGX-Ruyi's romance is like YG-XLN romance. I don't even care for ROCH2006 (I feel the Condor trilogy can totally do without it). But yet I can still feel for YG-XLN to a degree, and NOTHING at all for LGX-Ruyi. And totally totally disagree that a comment that LGX-Ruyi is like Xiao Yao-Ling'Er in CP1. Noooooo! Xiao Yao-Ling'Er are not the same, NOT the same Anyway, visit the Bu Bu Jing Xin thread - there was recently this running joke among us that Ruyi looks like a fish. I call her "A Fish Called Ruyi".

When Tangren is inspired, they can be very brilliant. But when they are crappy, it can be disastrous. Up to now, i can't figure out why they made a total mess out of Clothing The World/Tian Ya Zhi Nu which the producer (Karen Cai) reportedly took 3 years to prepare for. And worse, I recently read (and cried) that it is suppose to be a tribute/semi-bio of their famous costume designer, Shirley KF Chan, who designed the magnificent costumes of the original Chinese Ghost Story movie starring Leslie Cheung (see the reflection on Xiao Mei's story arc in Strange Hero? ). Really, don't watch that one. You'd be very disappointed. And if you are a Shirley KF Chan/original Chinese Ghost Story fankid, you'd be very indignant about how crappy Clothing The World turned out. I consider Clothing The World Tangren's greatest brainfart ever with CP3 following close behind. I also never got why wonderful actresses like Janine Chang, Amy Chan and Cheng Pei Pei (the amazing Jade Fox in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon) accepted roles in Clothing The World. YH & LSS I understand had no choice as they are under Tangren (though this made YH leave Tangren) and Janine wanted to try out a Mainland series, but why Amy & Pei Pei, WHY??!!

My hopes is that Tangren will be extremely inspired with a Young Warriors-type brilliance that will shine through in Bu Bu Jing Xin given the excellent plot, immense popularity of the novel and historical significance of Jiu Long Duo Ji - plus it's Liu Shi Shi's biggest ever role to-date.

OK, back to Young Warriors. My favourite couple is definitely 6th/Princess Chai for the obstacles/adventures they went through. And I also loved 7th's romance with the bandit girl (plus I'm also a rabid Eddie Peng fangirl). Sure, these couples were cute and childish, but in such a lovely engaging way, not juvenile and superbly irritating like Hu Ge and Ady's characters in CP1. Even then, those characters in CP1 weren't even half as horrifying as those in CP3, so stay away from that. I loved the way 6th/Princess Chai grew up together from youthful carefree to a knowing, understanding maturity and a heavy awareness of their responsibilities ahead. 7th/bandit girl didn't have that "grow up together" chance as their time together was so short. But I love the youthful air they exuded. Eddie was nothing short of brilliant in comic timing. When my Mom saw him in action as 7th, she thought he would make an excellent pre-16 years comical Yang Guo.

I found it really tragic that their Princess Chai's treasure hunt endeavours/finding out the truth of her past brought about the Emperor's distrust of the Yangs. I loved 8th Prince's honesty and genuine care for the country. I was really touched that he doesn't hesitate to get his hands dirty to rescue his workers from the coal mine - that was a fabulous introduction of the character.

The scene where the Yang women became warriors to lead and inspire the army was fantastically executed. In the final battle scene, Amy Chan brought across this courageous ferocity coupled with a heavy sadness that really tugged at my heart. I mean how can five former housewives push back a whole Liao battalion and fight them off the gates? - it requires a different type of strength that goes beyond the physical.

I found the very end of the last episode, where they were announcing the opening of their new house, very very sad. A different kind of sadness when the bodies of the dead Yang brothers returned to the capital. Amy Chan/Yang mother led the house opening in such a stoic and strong manner, but still can sense an extremely palpable sadness in her heart, even though the future looks hopeful with the Liaos finally retreating and they have formed the Yang Women Warriors.

I liked Yuan Hong in *shock, horror* Legend of the Condor Heroes. He was so intense, so conflicted... and his relationship with the Liu Shi Shi character, Mu Nianci was deliciously disturbing. His Ye Luxia was okay although I don't think he was as conflicted as he could have been about the way Liao was conducting the war.

Agree his casting as YK was exceptional and he had YK's pretty boy look down pat, but the revisionist story arc didn't do the character justice. YK just cannot cannot repent, sorry. He has to die a villain for the original revenge theme, so essential to ROCH, to prevail. I'm fine with him meeting baby YG, but he CANNOT repent. He will have YG to redeem him 20 years later so what for let him be sorry? Why not have a story arc like in Mei Ren Xin Ji/Schemes of a Beauty where we have a GJ (like Dou Yi Fang) who keeps forgiving YK (like Shen Er) repeatedly throughout he series, until the very end where GJ (like Dou) is driven to kill YK (like Shen Er) who resolutely continues to be power-hungry, scheming and nearly topples the Song govt by diabolical means? I'd want a YK where he tries to resurrect the Jin forces again and GJ or HR is forced to kill him for the sake of the country. After all the in-depth exploration about whether one is a hero depends on whose side you're on (WYHL and OYK were really heroic in Episode 36), why not have more of YK's real dilemma over country loyalties instead of some petulant I-hate-GJ-because-he's-better-at-martial-arts motivation. Ewwww!

I adored LOCH08's first 18 episodes of YK with MNC, especially when they traveled around having fun in the streets. They exuded that youthful spirit, fun and energy that's missing in all previous adaptations. Even Michael Miu & Sharon Yeung in the classic LOCH1983 adaptation didn't have the alluring youthful energy that YH & LSS had, although I loved the YK-MNC storyline in LOCH1983. Too bad LOCH08's YK-MNC story arc after YK goes back to WYHL just fell flat on the face and LSS' MNC character was completely butchered.

[Xaari]

Oh wow, this thread is back up! Hmm, I've praised Shao Nian Yang Jia Jiang up to high heaven in my blog for the longest time, so I've nearly run out of steam to sing even more praises. But I'd still like to throw in my hearty agreement for SNYJJ being one of the best Chinese historical dramas of all time. The unswerving loyalty, bravery, and brilliance of the Yang family are beyond legendary. Heck, I even have an encased Mu Guiying doll sitting on my fireplace.

Now, about the love triangle between Wu Lang, Guan Hong, and Yelü Xie. I thought it was absolutely splendid, although I was no fan of Guan Hong. I can't even keep count of how many times I've watched this MV: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-7nj4xXXNA. I love the song ("There's a Kind of Love Called Letting Go") to death...its lyrics are so meaningful and fitting that I even translated it.

What's funny is that the actress for Guan Hong loved Yelü Xie so much that she even made an MV for her character and Yelü Xie and posted it on her blog: http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_4aa8e68d01000c1d.html. If even she was so touched by this roguish, charismatic man who knew how to love VERY well, then that's saying something.

I liked Wu Lang at first, but in the end I hated him because of his choice of cowardice and escapism, inability to face reality, and unwillingness to help Liu Lang rebuild the Yang family. On the other hand, at first I hated Yelü Xie (especially his machinations regarding Bai Mei), but my good friend eventually managed to transform my hatred for him into adoration. I wouldn't quite classify him as a villain, but rather as an anti-hero. Although his methods weren't honorable, he was a magnificent hero to Great Liao. This drama inspired me to research Yelü Xiezhen, the historical Khitan general, and learn a ton about Khitan culture and history. I've read practically half of the gigantic historical source, the Liao shi!

Perhaps the most fanatical expression of my admiration for Yelü Xiezhen and interest in Great Liao is my in-progress historical novel, which I hope to publish one day. It's only 10 chapters (43,000 words) long right now, but its final length should be four times longer. It's entirely original, but the prologue of sorts hints at elements in the SNYJJ drama. Eventually, I'll heavily revise it and remove all such references, but I'll retain one detail, his scar, because I like that physical attribute. A huge twist in my story is that Yelü Xiezhen will be split into two characters, Yelü Xie (who can do as he pleases) and Yelü Zhen (who will adhere to history). However, this won't be apparent until much later in the novel.

Just for kicks (because the prologue is full of the essence of the Yelü Xie in the drama), I'd like to share it. I wrote this over a year ago, and I'm happy to say that my writing has improved since then.


Chapter 1: Roaming
986 A.D., sixth moon

He was free. The wind caressed his face, lingering over the long scar on his left cheek and whipping about his wild hair as he sped across the endless grasslands. The hoofs of the swift steed that he had stolen the previous night pounded a steady rhythm to which his heart drummed along. He inhaled deeply the refreshing, chilly morning air and scanned his surroundings. Glimpses of dawn's blush streaked across the eastern horizon in wispy strokes of scarlet and tangerine. It was beautiful, really. He had already experienced this tranquility on the open plains for weeks now, but he still feared that it would vanish like mist in a dream. It was, after all, only the first moon since he had last issued his bellowing war-cry, since his last sighting of a thousand mutilated corpses, since he had last taken a life. It had also been the same amount of time since he'd last seen her, dueled with her, and nearly killed her.

He would not think of her. She was the past, the forgotten. Yet a painful sting seared through his chest as his own heartfelt words echoed back at him: "Tonight, I just want to have someone beside me. A night with the woman I love, so that when I am older, when I look back, I won’t feel alone." It had been the most magical night of his life. He pulled on the reins tighter and closed his eyes in reminiscence. He had met her at dusk, demanding payment from her, as he had gone to great lengths to help her seek vengeance on the venomous Khitan scum who had killed her father and indirectly caused her mother's death. All he wanted was for her to accompany him into the mountains and spend a peaceful night by a bonfire. But the stubborn girl had refused, so he had no choice, really, but to seal her pressure points, hoist her on his back, and carry her up to his favorite spot in the mountains.

She had awoken just as he was feeding more wood to the fire. She was so loud and defiant, unable to maintain a civilized conversation for more than a minute. No doubt her brashness was owed to living on the far outskirts of town, hammering and forging and sharpening fine swords for a living. And he wanted badly to see her temper flare by misunderstanding the 'debt' he told her he wanted to claim. He had all but jumped on top of her upon the grass, his hot breath condensing just above her, to test if she understood his character. She protested and insulted him, but she understood, unlike the night she called him a lecher when he was only trying to ease her into a better position for stargazing on the hill of wildflowers.

He was no gentleman, but he wanted to show her that his true intentions were still noble. Without another word he hurled a smooth rock at the nearby fire with unerring accuracy and force, smothering the flames instantly. The black smoke dispelled to reveal a clear full moon, which cast its ethereal glow on the towering blue cliff of precious stones behind them. He knew without looking that the crevices of the cliff glittered like faint stars; he saw their reflections in her endearing eyes.

He imagined that every girl would be captivated by the midnight magic unraveling before their very eyes, and he had secretly prepared this moment for days, when he was tired of planning battle tactics against the Song armies. But she told him in a few simple, heartbreaking words that she could not accept his feelings, much in the same way she had once waved his incense-infused staff for attracting fireflies and traced a single word, "No," in a shower of gold onto the black sky that instantly became repulsive to him.

That was exactly her nature: simple, honest, and direct. She was also boisterous and rude, fiery and at times inclined to violence. But it made him feel like a man of flesh and blood. He hadn't cried when he accosted her when she was in her bedchamber, dressed in a red bridal gown on her wedding night. He had bitterly offered her a cup of wine to sever their ties and celebrate her wedding...her union to someone that wasn't him...to not a mere commoner, but his fierce rival Wu Lang, fifth son in the highly revered Yang clan. He hoped that she was happy now as Wu Niang, wife of a man good enough for any woman but her. But he, he wasn't happy, and he wanted so badly to curse her to the depths of the earth, but still loved her too much to do so...and a single drop of moisture rolled down his scarred cheek as he opened his eyes again.

He cracked the whip with more force than necessary and viciously wiped the tear on his sleeve. He couldn't remember the last time he had cried; he hadn't even shed a tear during the public executions of the female Liao spies who had set up headquarters at the Drunken Scarlet Tower. The beheading of all those women fiercely loyal to him and to Great Liao was entirely his fault. It was his fault that their lives had been cut so brutally short, his fault for failing to send them home quickly enough when their plot had been exposed by the Yangs. He had promised to spill every last drop of the Yangs' blood to avenge them, yet he was never able to personally attain that satisfaction. He had failed them even as they turned in their graves.

But now the tides had turned. He had already vowed to alienate himself from warfare and corruption, both of which he would have to resort to if he wanted to vanquish the remaining Yang warrior, Liu Lang. And what's more, he now held a high regard for the entire Yang family, the dead and the women included. Only last month, when forced to retreat his troops from outside the Song capital, did he realize that the Yangs could never be defeated in spirit even if they perished in combat. His past hatred for the courageous warriors in red armor had been fueled by a mixture of jealousy and spite, initiated when Wu Lang fought him for the first time and marred his handsome face with a deep scar. From then on he had pitted himself against Wu Lang at every opportunity, but ultimately lost to him in both love and war.

And now, as he clutched the reins tightly and buried himself in the horse's mane, he finally acknowledged the truth that had been gnawing at him for years. Yes, he was once the proud general of Great Liao, the Empress Dowager's right-hand man. But he had already fought his last war and lost. And he didn't feel a twinge of regret. Instead he felt a burst of relief as he began to truly see, to view the world through newborn eyes, no longer clouded by the single pursuit for Song blood. How often he had dreamed of carefree days like this, when there was nothing but flawless blue above him and the soft grass beneath.

But he couldn't roam forever. One moon ago he had crossed from the Central Plains back into Liao. Now he was approaching the border once more, but this time thousands of li east. He would soon reach the Eastern Capital, not far from the coast. He would have liked to avoid contact with people for as long as possible, but he couldn't continue to gain sustenance from hunting and occasionally robbing travelers. His emerging savage tendencies would subside once he reached civilization again.

He spotted the outline of a dense forest ahead, the unoccupied border between the Central and Eastern regions. Yelü Xie cracked the whip to hasten the steed through a relatively clear path directly into the silent forest. Ancient trees with their towering foliage thoroughly filtered out the weak sunlight. He sped through the semi-darkness with ease and relaxed. Within the next hour he would reach the gates of the Eastern Capital, and he needed to be fully alert upon arrival. If he liked the place enough, he would settle there temporarily. Otherwise he would traverse the Southern region, and if that didn't suit him, he wouldn't oppose to residing in Song. But he would make sure to avoid Bianjing at all costs. Crossing paths with her or the Yang clan again was the last thing he wanted in this lifetime.

It wasn't long before the trees thinned and his eyes had to adjust to a growing brightness. Sunbeams greeted him at the edge of the forest, and he quickly dismounted near a massive shrub. There he discarded his fur cap, his heavy outer robe, and his pendant with the hanging silver crescent of Liao. It wasn't safe for him to exhibit his former identity as the Great Liao general anywhere on the continent. The Eastern cities, especially Dongjing, were furthermore perilous because of their proximity to the Kingdom of Goryeo.

But his curved sword in its gilded sheath would remain on him no matter what. In one swift, practiced movement he climbed onto the horse's back and sped onward. The thick underbrush soon dwindled to wild grass and then suddenly transitioned to an expanse of brown dirt with no end in sight. The imposing thirty-foot high walls that fortified the Eastern Capital loomed ahead, and the sun reflected harshly on the gray luster of the heavily guarded steel gates. He slowed his horse from a gallop to a trot as he approached the first row of sentries, who barely cast the lone man a glance. The inner guards were more apprehensive, their eyes lingering on the gleaming hilt of his sword, but silently granted him entry.

He had arrived in Great Liao's second greatest capital, sequestered on the far eastern frontier of the empire.

...

Oh, and I nearly forgot, this is my all-time favorite MV featuring Yelü Xie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaX_4Vo9CXE. The song "Buried Heroes" depicts so poignantly Yelü Xie hovering on the border between heroism and cowardice, selflessness and greed, passion and heartlessness.

[Easter Lily]

Golly, I've started something... hehehe... and here was I thinking I was late to the party as usual.
Instead of cutting and pasting quotes, I'll reply generally here.

I don't think we need to be too hard on Wulang. His is a sensibility that us modern types probably don't quite understand. Apart from celebrating family and patriotism, Yang Jia Jiang is also a tribute to a kind of robust masculinity that's almost foreign in our time. From his point of view, his wife's betrayal of him went to the heart of his masculinity. It hurt him on two levels that a) his wife didn't really understand what made him tick and b) that he had broken an unwritten code of honour among gentleman of his day. In short, he felt emasculated. Of all the brothers, he's the most rigidly simple-minded despite his talents in the battlefield.

It's not that I agree with what he did at the end because I don't. I have a much higher view of marriage than that but I understand why the entire incident was such a crippling experience for him. It's a pity the actor playing him didn't really have the chops to explore the different aspects of the character and his inner angst much more satisfactorily.

Ye Luxia was an honourable man serving under bad masters is my very simple opinion on this. I didn't care much for the Liaos as a whole. There didn't seem to be any decent reason why they wanted to grab the Central Plains except for glory. Revenge/retaliation I could have understood better. And then there's the whole "greatness at any cost" rationale which fell flat for me. The Liaos, in this story, were a tedious, one dimensional lot who only interested in war for war's sake.
I can understand why many might think of Ye Luxia as a kind of romantic figure with his dark, brooding looks and killer courtship skills but I wasn't that taken with his character or his romance with Guan Hong. It felt ho hum and most importantly, took time away from the doings of the Yang clan.

Yang Ye and Sai Hua was my favourite couple in this. It feels so good to have grown ups doing the heavy lifting in a serious show like this... just gives the story a lot more gravitas. Nothing like a loving, married couple to hold everything together. I'm so glad that so much of the focus was on them rather than the whippersnappers.

I didn't mind Liu Lang and Princess Chai because it is fairly clear from the beginning why they're a decent match. What I think 6 liked about the Princess was her courage which never failed her as they both matured. They were, in many ways, the most fortunate... they grew as a couple together and their relationship survived a number of hurdles and stood the ultimate test. A couple of adventure-seeking kids that fell in together, grew up very quickly and finally got married. How fortunate is that?!
7 and Jin-Er were pretty cute. Eddie... was delightful... made me laugh all throughout the series. I wasn't sure how he was going to be after seeing him in CP1 but he was wonderful here. His chemistry with 6 and Bamei was great to watch.

Getting late... got to go...

[brightlight]

I think for me, Yang Warriors was definitely my favorite work by Tangren. Tangren dramas tend to go for the simple love emotions, and Yang Warriors moved away from that a bit to add bigger ideas of honor, family and responsibility. CP1 was too slow, CP3 was fun but lacked a strong central plot, YiZhiMei lost me when it became a memory box, and LoCH just made me angry... The other drama I do rewatch occasionally is Fairy from Wonderland, which is a cute, lighthearted drama for when I need something fun.

I thought all of the plotlines in Yang warriors were really welldone, from the father-mother, 6th-Princess CHai(P.S. I miss her, why did she leave Tangren?), 7th - two girls, 4th and Liu Shishi, etc.

I really enjoyed Yelu Xie's segments, as well. The Liaos were no different from the Songs, and both wanted more land. In his position, he's just as honorable as the Yangs.

My hopes is that Tangren will be extremely inspired with a Young Warriors-type brilliance that will shine through in Bu Bu Jing Xin given the excellent plot, immense popularity of the novel and historical significance of Jiu Long Duo Ji - plus it's Liu Shi Shi's biggest ever role to-date.

TBH, Young warriors has a brilliance that I don't think BBJX can reach in my mind. I think Young Warriors was really successful in its combination of so many elements of stories. However, BBJX is in essence a romance and intrigue tale. I like Liu Shishi a lot and hope this succeeds for her, and given it's airing on Hunan TV, it probably will, but I don't think it will have that element of inspiration and the ideas of a "war love" that I loved so much in Young Warriors.

famous costume designer, Shirley KF Chan, who designed the magnificent costumes of the original Chinese Ghost Story movie starring Leslie Cheung.

Maybe she just simply lost her touch, but her costumes recently have been disastrous. Have you seen the outfits for Yu Zheng's Emperors of the Beauty? There are definitely good design elements, but overall, flashy and terrible use of fabrics.

Agree his casting as YK was exceptional and he had YK's pretty boy look down pat, but the revisionist story arc didn't do the character justice. YK just cannot cannot repent, sorry. He has to die a villain for the original revenge theme, so essential to ROCH, to prevail. I'm fine with him meeting baby YG, but he CANNOT repent.

I agree so much!!!! I enjoyed Yang Kang the character himself, but as a part of the overall plot, it was a disaster. The lack of him as a foil lowered Guo Jing's status, and ruined the entire plot of LoCh and its core them of country and loyalty. Repentent baddies come in other books, but not in this. Tangren should've went for RoCH or YitianTuLongJi if they wanted more complicated antagonists.

[xiaolong]

There's going to be a movie made on The Yang Clan.

Cast Confirmed for Upcoming HK/C Movie The Yang’s Clan Including Vic Zhou, Wu Zun, Louis Koo, and Ekin Cheng
Source: http://koalasplayground.com/2011/04/...nd-ekin-cheng/

When I first heard the casting news, I did a double take, and then had to check five times to make sure it wasn’t some elaborate April’s Fools punk. Of course it’s not, and the reality only makes it more surreal since I can’t fathom how much this movie is going to wallow in bromance manpain and the collective pretty. Famed HK-producer-director-actor Bakmin Wong’s upcoming epic movie-version of The Yang’s Clan (杨家将) has just announced the seven lead actors playing the famed seven brothers of historical lore.

Only two of the actors have been confirmed to play a certain brother (Louis Koo as Big Brother and Wu Zun as Sixth Brother), but I can pretty much guess which brother the other five leads will be playing. Ekin Cheng I suspect is Second Brother, Raymond Lam is likely Third Brother, Vic Zhou could play Fourth Brother in his sleep (OMG the angst), Deng Cao would be perfect as stoic Fifth Brother, and Feng Shao Feng as playful Seventh Brother. Okay, you can start screaming now folks, because that above, is the epic cast for the upcoming The Yang’s Clan movie.




The historical folk legend of the Yang’s Clan and the seven brothers (and their awesome General Daddy) who set out for war on behalf of the Song Dynasty against its enemies, and only one brother returned, has been made into movies and dramas so many times I have lost count. The story extols family honor and patriotic virtue of the Yang’s Clan and their willingness to give their lives for their Emperor.

The drama adaptations tends to focus on the younger brothers more, with Sixth Brother usually the lead since he’s the only one to return from the battle, though other versions have chosen to focus on Fourth Brother. I adore this story since I watched it as a kid and totally swooned over the brothers and their camaraderie and general awesomeness – they use spears as weapons, each has his own OTP, they fight all the time just for fun, they always have each other’s back. And it spawned a very famous proverb – “The Yang’s Clan, 7 sons left, 1 son returned.”

The confirmed cast also includes wuxia veteran Adam Cheng as the all-powerful and wise Daddy Yang. This movie version will supposedly center around the seven brothers’ rescue of Daddy Yang, likely from evil varmints of some invading nation. The poster above was made by C-netizens at Baidu, and at the end of the cast list naming each of the guys I listed above is this awesome tagline “and a bunch of Yang’s wives, too.” Mwahahaha, yup, don’t forget the wifeys. The movie starts filming this August, likely scheduled for a Fall 2012 release.



[Credit: Ifensi news]

© 2011, ockoala. All rights reserved.



Another movie about The Yang Women Warriors...

The Ladies Yang’s Clan Movie with Cecilia Cheung Wraps Filming
Source: http://koalasplayground.com/2011/04/...wraps-filming/

I’m beginning to suspect things always come in pairs around here. Yesterday I posted about the upcoming The Yang’s Clan movie about the 7 brothers, which is bound to drip in excess testosterone. The Yang’s Clan folktale actually does not end with the death/amnesia/be-a-monk endings which befell most of the Yangs’ brothers. The 7 wives, a mom, and 2 younger sisters the 7 brothers left behind not only went on living, their story actually bolsters and enhances the Yang’s Clan legend.

By a stroke of coincidence, the upcoming HK/C movie about the women of the Yang’s Clan, called The Ladies of the Yang’s Clan: Military Orders (杨门女将之军令如山), wrapped its principal filming yesterday. Headlined by Cecilia Cheung, the movie brings to the big screen the story of Yang Zhong Bao, the only son of Sixth Brother and his princess wife, who ended up marrying a warrior lady brigand, but then also died in battle due to the machinations of Minister Pan. His new wife, the infamous Mu Gui Ying, thereafter led all 12 of the remaining Yang’s ladies into battle against the Xi Xia tribe and emerged victorious for the Song Dynasty. Holla for girl power!

Cecelia plays Mu Gui Ying, who is famous in her own right as the only Yang’s clan granddaughter-in-law, since her husband was the only grandson left when she married into the family, and also the unifying force which led the Yang’s wives and sisters into battle to serve their nation when there were no more Yang men left to lead. Richie Ren is her husband Yang Zhong Bao.

Legendary Hong Kong screen actress and wuxia leading lady extraordinaire Zheng Pei Pei is returning to the screen as the matriarch of the Yang family – who famously outlived her husband, her sons, and her grandson.


We’ve got Kathy Chow as Fifth Wife, and old school screen diva Liu Xiao Qing as Sixth Wife/Princess Chai



Mu Gui Ying and Yang Zhong Bao


This movie is scheduled for an end of 2011 release. While I’m more excited about The Yang’s Clan movie with the guys, the girl power in me loves seeing the widows and girl orphans of the Yang’s clan take up the mantle of the family calling and kick some collective enemy behind. The ladies of the Yang’s Clan story has also been made into quite a few dramas over the years.

[mango_cake]

I liked Wu Lang at first, but in the end I hated him because of his choice of cowardice and escapism, inability to face reality, and unwillingness to help Liu Lang rebuild the Yang family.

I know a lot of people found 5th's actions cowardly in the end, but I found it understandable and so, so sad. Imagine that all you live for is to fight for your country alongside your family. And then, when that crucial moment is here...the girl you love drugs you and forces you out of the action. You wake up only to find that almost your entire family has been massacred while you slept it off in safety.

Imagine the guilt eating away at you every day as you replay the possibilities over and over again, wondering if you could've saved one of your brothers, your father, your soldiers...hating yourself for not helping your country when it needed you most. Having to face your wife everyday knowing that she betrayed you, loving and hating her at the same time. I think this is more than enough to drive a guy like 5 Lang crazy. 6 Lang had no such problem because he was there, in the midst of action, throughout everything. Who is to say 6th wouldn't have done the same thing if all of this happened to him?

As for the butchering of YK and MNC...I have too much rage to express so I won't go into a rant about that.

I don't know how I feel about the 2 movies coming out...neither have a cast that makes me really want to watch, but I do adore the story of Yang clan...well, since it's a movie, it'll only take up 2 hours of my time so no big loss if it's bad I suppose! XD

[Xaari]

Wow, this thread is exploding! Lots of exciting topics to discuss. I'm going to blab forever...

Firstly, thanks for the heads-up, xiaolong, about the upcoming Yang clan movies! I can't tell if the choice of casting will end up a success or disaster, but I guess it can't hurt to give them a try. Mu Guiying is my hero! ^_^

I know a lot of people found 5th's actions cowardly in the end, but I found it understandable and so, so sad. Imagine that all you live for is to fight for your country alongside your family. And then, when that crucial moment is here...the girl you love drugs you and forces you out of the action. You wake up only to find that almost your entire family has been massacred while you slept it off in safety.

Imagine the guilt eating away at you every day as you replay the possibilities over and over again, wondering if you could've saved one of your brothers, your father, your soldiers...hating yourself for not helping your country when it needed you most. Having to face your wife everyday knowing that she betrayed you, loving and hating her at the same time. I think this is more than enough to drive a guy like 5 Lang crazy. 6 Lang had no such problem because he was there, in the midst of action, throughout everything. Who is to say 6th wouldn't have done the same thing if all of this happened to him?

Now it's time to put myself in common-sense shoes. Before, when I was sentimental about the drama, I despised Guan Hong's interference and sympathized with Wu Lang. But then I began to realize that Wu Lang at the end of the drama was no longer the same admirable man who had defeated Yelü Xie in the beginning. By the time he married Guan Hong, he had already become distrustful, hot-tempered, and impulsive. Because he was so simple-minded, his judgment had clouded over entirely. Yes, it was terribly wrong for Guan Hong to knock him out. How could she justify selfishly saving her husband when all the other wives had allowed their husbands to perform their duty to their country?

But when Wu Lang woke up, the deed had already been done. Nothing could be changed. He should have realized that it wasn't his fault that he was still alive. Sure, it was because of his wife's meddling, but wasn't Pan Renmei's refusal to send necessary reinforcements the very reason that the battle had been lost before it even began? If Wu Lang had any common sense left after the battle, he would have realized that his fathers and brothers had been doomed to be egregiously outnumbered and defeated. He would have been just as unable to help them as Qi Lang, and probably would have suffered the same fate. Yes, he felt robbed of his right to fight and die beside his father and brothers. But why didn't he understand that it would have all been in vain? Yang Ye had been the auxiliary general in the expedition and forced to take the risk of facing the enemy when defeat was imminent, and chief general Pan had deliberately withheld reinforcements to achieve such an outcome. And why didn't Wu Lang ever consider how much Liu Lang, his mother, and his sister needed him after the bloodbath, even if he was unable to forgive his wife? It all boiled down to Wu Lang's own character faults. That kind of proud, stubborn masculinity didn't suit leading the Yang clan forward in years to come.

However, I don't have any basis to hate the real Wu Lang. We all know that stories about the Yang clan feature just as many fabrications and legends as the Romance of Three Kingdoms. There are tons of historical inaccuracies in Shao Nian Yang Jia Jiang, to be sure. Prime Minister Pan Renmei was really General Pan Mei. He wasn't killed by Liao, but rather lowered three ranks by Emperor Taizong after the defeat of Yang Ye's troops. Years later, he actually regained his former position. Also, his eighth daughter wasn't a concubine of Emperor Taizong. She was actually Princess Pan, the first wife of the Prince of Han, the future Emperor Zhenzong, but died before he ascended the throne. Most importantly, while it's true that Liu Lang survived, we don't know for sure if Wu Lang really became a monk or if Si Lang became the husband of a Liao princess, namely Qionge. The latter I can dismiss as a certain falsehood. Empress Dowager Xiao had three daughters: Guanyinnü (married Xiao Jixian, the Empress Dowager's adopted brother), Changshounü (married General Xiao Paiya), and Yanshounü (married vicegerent Xiao Hengde, brother of Xiao Paiya). They were the only three imperial princesses of Liao in that generation. Clearly, Si Lang didn't marry any of them. So it's also possible to doubt whether Wu Lang even became a monk.

Now, some more commentary on the love triangle. I felt it was such a waste of effort on Yelü Xie's part to reconcile Guan Hong with Wu Lang, only for Wu Lang to abandon her so soon! Guan Hong craved for the security and stability that marrying Wu Lang would bring, but maybe she didn't make the right choice after all. Yelü Xie proved with his actions that he loved her more than Wu Lang ever did: he rid her of her fear of wolves, he fed her the antidote, he helped her avenge her parents, he personally accosted Wu Lang with explanation and encouragement, and he voluntarily withdrew so that she could pursue her supposed happiness. All along Guan Hong was so blinded by her prejudice against Khitans that she failed to see how much Yelü Xie had changed for the better.

I'd also like to refute the claim that life with Yelü Xie would have been a gamble, uncertain and undependable compared to being an in-law of the Yang clan. Let's not forget that Yelü Xie(zhen) was not only a great general of Liao, but also an imperial clansman, a relative/friend/adviser of the Liao Emperor, the Northern Chancellor (literally the King of the Northern Chancellory), and one of the two grand commander-in-chiefs, sharing the imperial high command with the Emperor. The real Yelü Xiezhen died in 999 A.D., so Guan Hong could have spent at least 13 years with him living in comfort in the Supreme Capital's palace city. After his death, his clan would still take care of her, and she would even be permitted to remarry, unlike women in Song.

It should be noted that the Khitans weren't outright prejudiced against the Han in Liao. There were large Han populations in Liao, especially in the five capitals. Capable and loyal Han officials in the Liao court were bestowed with the imperial surname, and many Liao emperors had Han consorts. But the treatment of Khitan prisoners of war in Song was far worse than the treatment of Han slaves in Liao, where even a princess would be demoted in status if she killed a slave. But Khitan prisoners of war were killed like animals in Song, and the Han were such ethnic supremacists that a "barbaric" Khitan official or consort in Song would be outrageous.

I really enjoyed Yelu Xie's segments, as well. The Liaos were no different from the Songs, and both wanted more land. In his position, he's just as honorable as the Yangs.

I can't agree with you more. For those condemning Liao for invading Song, or wondering why...isn't it of course for the sake of enlarging their empire? Liao wanted to conquer southward, Song wanted to expand northward. There's no right or wrong here. Liao attacked Song's borders, but Song also conquered Northern Han, which was a firm ally of Liao. Song then attempted (and failed) to claim the Sixteen Prefectures that were rightfully given to Liao by the Later Jin Dynasty. So was Liao really any more greedy than Song?

Liao may have wanted to take advantage of Song, but it was also true vice-versa. Wanting to take advantage of the 15-year-old Emperor Shengzong, Emperor Taizong vastly underestimated the strength of the Liao rulers when he ordered a second campaign against Liao (which resulted in the deaths of the Yang warriors). Empress Dowager Xiao, a talented militarist in her own right, personally commanded an army of 10,000 cavalry, and continued to do so even into her sixties. With their generals Yelü Xiuge and Yelü Xiezhen, they completed crushed Emperor Taizong's East army and then the West army (led by Pan Mei and Yang Ye). Empress Dowager Xiao and Emperor Shengzong were truly, truly brilliant leaders of militant Liao. Far more capable than Emperor Taizong, anyway, who in 979 A.D. not only failed to take the Sixteen Prefectures from Liao, but also suffered an arrow wound and fled in a donkey cart as his entire army was obliterated. What a sight that must have been!

[Easter Lily]

Nice scoop there about a new Yang Jia Jiang film in the works. Can't imagine that it'll be bad idea but 8 men trying to share 2 hours of screen time is going to be tough going.
Interesting that the blogger has pegged Deng Cao as Wulang and Feng Shao Feng as Qilang. I would have thought it would be the other way round.

[mango_cake]

Wait Deng Chao is in that adaptation?! Totally missed that! Ok, maybe this cast is not bad after all! I like Deng Chao and have warmed up to FSF enormously recently, plus I have reasonably favourable impressions of Wu Zun, Raymond Lam, Vic Zhou, and Louis Koo (although don't know much about them so don't really care either way). And I know nothing about Ekin Cheng (beyond hearing his name here and there)...so it's not like I have negative impressions of any ofthem, really!

Xaari: wow, you are a real Chinese history expert! XD Your post was very interesting, thanks! Where did you learn about all this? Any book recommendations?

[Xaari]

Haha, I like the speculations about which actor will be cast as which brother, and I really laughed out loud over xiaolong's statement that Vic Zhou can play Si Lang in his sleep. Now I'll be disappointed if he doesn't end up as Si Lang.

mango_cake: I read about Yang Ye, Pan Mei, and Yelü Xiezhen on the Chinese Wikipedia, but my main source about Liao was the Liao shi and the English text History of Chinese Society Liao (907-1125) (http://www.jstor.org/pss/1005570). I downloaded it from JSTOR, but if you don't have access, I can upload it somewhere else for anyone interested. It's 775 pages (128 MB), so...yeah...some fun reading there.

[brightlight]

Historically, "Pan Renmei" is actually generally considered a good, loyal leader. ^.^

I don't think that cast is 100% confirmed yet. For one, Fu Xinbo has originally accepted the role of the 7th brother, but has just begun angsting on whether to chose the movie or an album. (source: his and the director's weibo).
Wu Zun, Vic Chou, Gu Tianle are all pretty set. Feng Shaofeng has expressed interest but not confirmations.
Deng Chao joining is definitely just rumors at this point.

[Xaari]

Historically, "Pan Renmei" is actually generally considered a good, loyal leader. ^.^

Pan Mei of course wasn't the purely evil character in Shao Nian Yang Jia Jiang, and he was probably very loyal to Song, but I don't think he was a good leader during the second campaign against Liao. It was Pan Mei and his generals who argued with Yang Ye, doubted Yang Ye's loyalty to Song because he formerly served Northern Han (an ally of Liao), forced his troops to face the enemy when they were outnumbered, and didn't send reinforcements when he knew that Yang Ye's troops would be defeated. In other words, it was really his fault that Yang Ye was captured by Liao and ended up dying of starvation. But after his subsequent demotion, Pan Mei was back in favor and power...maybe he made up for his mistakes, I guess.

[ChineseChik525]

Haha, I like the speculations about which actor will be cast as which brother, and I really laughed out loud over xiaolong's statement that Vic Zhou can play Si Lang in his sleep. Now I'll be disappointed if he doesn't end up as Si Lang.

LOL same! the only 2 i like in the new cast is vic zhou and wu zun though

[H.Ge-C.Liu]

Despite the fact that there are a few miscasts, I'll still be looking out for this movie.

[xiaolong]

OK, I'm bumping up this thread bcos I haven't started one on the movies section.

Latest news is that filming of the movie The Yang Clan is starting in Henan this month! The movie's weibo is here: http://weibo.com/yjiajiang
The earliest actors to arrive on the set is Wu Zun and Zai Zai.

Confirmed on the production team: Wong Pak-Ming 黄百鸣 (producer), Ronny Yu 于仁泰 (director), Edmond Wong 黄子桓 (screenwriter)

Confirmed actors: Louis Koo 古天乐, Adam Cheng 郑少秋, Raymond Lam 林峰, Zai Zai 周渝民, Wu Zun 吴尊, Li Chen 李晨, Fu Xinbo 付辛博, and Yu Bo 于波.


Arrrgghhh! I was looking forward to having Vic Zhou as 4th/Si Lang!!