Warrior Attendent Palm. Is it a big deal?

[CC]

I believe Xuan Ci was the only person ever mentioned to have mastered the Great Buddha Warrior Attendent Palm? And according to DGSD, only once every several centuries would a shaolin monk come along with enough talant to master it.

Does that make it stronger then the other 71 Ultimate Shaolin Skills though? If it is and since FZ didn't master it, does that make him weaker then XC?

And was Xuan Ci stronger then YTZ? Their one and only palm clash didn't prove conclusive. It seemed about equal.

[Radken]

What is this Warrior Attendent Palm that you speak of? Do you mean Buddhist Palm? I'm interested in hearing about new palm techniques.

[Han Solo]

I believe Xuan Ci was the only person ever mentioned to have mastered the Great Buddha Warrior Attendent Palm? And according to DGSD, only once every several centuries would a shaolin monk come along with enough talant to master it.

Does that make it stronger then the other 71 Ultimate Shaolin Skills though? If it is and since FZ didn't master it, does that make him weaker then XC?

And was Xuan Ci stronger then YTZ? Their one and only palm clash didn't prove conclusive. It seemed about equal.

Speaking from speculation.

1) It may not be related to fighting abilities or internal energy, as the Great Buddha Warrior Attendent Palm may be a set of techniques that requires certain enlightment or world viewpoint before being to acquire it. Similarly, we saw in Odes to Gallantry that SPT's naive viewpoints enables him to learn a set of Shaolin skills.

Also, other monks may have just tried to learn the skills for a short period of time before deciding that they cannot, or will not learn this skill; rather spending their time learning other skills.

2) None of the 72 supremes should be heads and shoulders above others when mastered completely.

3) YTZ in 2nd edition does seem to be better than the Shaolin Abbot, as without QF's intervention, Xuan Ci's life may have already been forfeit.

Han Solo
P/s: are u planning to continue the DGSD translation?

[K2Grey]

The palm skill being discussed is Buddha's Great Warrior Attendant Palm (Da Jing Gang Zhang). It's not the same as Buddhist Palm, which I think is Rulai Zhang, and is from a totally different wuxia series (think it first appeared in a movie). There is a Hundred Hands Buddha Palm which Fang Zheng in XAJH knew but that's a different thing.

There do seem to be differences in 72 arts compared to each other: for example, in TVB adaption (of course might not be canon) JMZ displayed a "Ing Hua Zhi" (don't know what that translates as) with impressive results, then claimed this was much inferior to some other finger skill of the 72 arts. And in HSDS (book) it was said that Kong Jian's Diamond Body Invulnerability skill was supposed to be one of the top 5 Shaolin arts. Although I dunno exactly who thought he was authoritative enough to go and rank all the skills, seems a bit egotistical if you ask me since he surely didn't know most of the skills. Also interesting is how YJJ seems to not be one of the 72 arts, and also how 9 Yang isn't, although for some reason no one knew about it after HSDS. You'd think with all these tremendous kungfus refined over hundreds of years Shaolin would produce some really awesome martial artist after a while. Then again, maybe those artists pulled a Sweeper Monk and so no one ever hears of them.

P/s: Are you planning to continue the DGSD translation?

[Extremer88]

Regarding the Warrior Attendent Palm's prowess, I'm not very sure. It was said in HSDS, that no Shaolin monk had ever learned more than 12 skills of the Shaolin 72 Supreme Arts. Abbot Kongwen, managed to learn 12 skills. This means that from DGSD up to HSDS, no one ever achieved more than 12 skills of the Shaolin 72 Supreme Arts. Does this means that Sweeper Monks didn't know ALL 72 Shaolin Supreme Arts or is it he does not have access to them?

Also interesting is how YJJ seems to not be one of the 72 arts, and also how 9 Yang isn't, although for some reason no one knew about it after HSDS. You'd think with all these tremendous kungfus refined over hundreds of years Shaolin would produce some really awesome martial artist after a while. Then again, maybe those artists pulled a Sweeper Monk and so no one ever hears of them.

P/s: Are you planning to continue the DGSD translation?

Yin Jinjing and Si Suijing are internal energy cultivation techniques, so they are notconsidered as the Shaolin 72 Supreme Arts. 9 Yang was created in LOCH era and written a sanskrit Buddhism manual, but the 72 arts had already existed in DGSD, so basically 9Yang should not part of the 72.

[PJ]

Sweeper Monk's martial arts may be based outside of Shaolin. For example, he may already be the world's most profound fighter before entering Shaolin, although I think he did gain enlightenment from reading buddhist scriptures.

[Han Solo]

Regarding the Warrior Attendent Palm's prowess, I'm not very sure. It was said in HSDS, that no Shaolin monk had ever learned more than 12 skills of the Shaolin 72 Supreme Arts. Abbot Kongwen, managed to learn 12 skills. This means that from DGSD up to HSDS, no one ever achieved more than 12 skills of the Shaolin 72 Supreme Arts. Does this means that Sweeper Monks didn't know ALL 72 Shaolin Supreme Arts or is it he does not have access to them?



Yin Jinjing and Si Suijing are internal energy cultivation techniques, so they are notconsidered as the Shaolin 72 Supreme Arts. 9 Yang was created in LOCH era and written a sanskrit Buddhism manual, but the 72 arts had already existed in DGSD, so basically 9Yang should not part of the 72.

In the era preceeding DGSD, there was a monk who mastered 13 skills, but suffered from fire deviation. While the SOD monks (Fang Zhen) learned, not mastered 11 arts.

Is there any text stating how any skills was learned or mastered by HSDS monks?

We never even know if the martial arts possessed by Sweeper Monk is Shaolin in origin.

Han Solo

[Humplewumps]

3) YTZ in 2nd edition does seem to be better than the Shaolin Abbot, as without QF's intervention, Xuan Ci's life may have already been forfeit.
?

Why do you say that? They exchanged one set of palms and nothing conclusive came out of that. Their long range palm strikes seemed about equal in strength and once they close in, YTZ certaintly doesn't have much experience in leg and fist techniques.

[Han Solo]

Why do you say that? They exchanged one set of palms and nothing conclusive came out of that. Their long range palm strikes seemed about equal in strength and once they close in, YTZ certaintly doesn't have much experience in leg and fist techniques.

Probably exagerated a bit.

Nonetheless, the feeling that i got was that in YTZ seems to be superior than Abbot Xuan Ci.

From CC's translation:
"Without replying, You Tan Zhi struck out with a long distance palm blow with his left hand as his right hand followed with another palm strike. The right palm strike arrived first even though it was initiated later in an attempt to trick the target. The palm strikes from both parties clashed in mid air and dissipated against each other with a loud 'Bo!" and the sounds of cloth ripping could be heard as the belt strings on Xuan Ci's robes flew apart in 2 directions. You Tan Zhi's twin palm strikes covered a large area and although Xuan Ci's "Showing respect to Buddha" stance dissipated the force of the palm strike aimed at his body, his belt which was stretched out and away from his body was torn by the force of You Tan Zhi's strikes."

[Extremer88]

Is there any text stating how any skills was learned or mastered by HSDS monks?
Han Solo

When Zhang Sanfeng bring Zhang Wuji to Shaolin seeking treatment.

空闻听了，沉吟良久，说道：“我少林派七十二项绝技，千百年来从无一名僧
俗弟子能练到十二项以上。张真人所学自是冠绝古今，可是敝派只觉上代列位祖师
传下来的武功太多，便是只学十分之一，也已极难。张真人再以一门神功和本派交
换，虽然盛情可感，然于本派而言，却为多余。”顿了一顿，又道：“武当派武功，
源出少林，今日若是双方交换武学，日后江湖上不明真相之人，便会说武当派固然
祖述少林，但少林派却也从张真人手上得到了好处。小僧忝为少林掌门，这般的流
言却是担代不起。”

[Humplewumps]

Given that the 72 arts were created by many different past masters, it is entirely possible that some of them were stronger then the rest. It would be quite amazing if 72 arts created by many different people all ended up exactly equal.

Unless you get to that crazy stage (like sweeper monk) where your understanding of martial arts and enlighthenment gets so dang bloddy Zen that everything merges into one and all martial arts under heaven leads to the same point so it doesn't matter if you started with Warrior Attendant Palm or Flower Massaging Finger or Six Tiger Gate Breaking Sabre or Toad Skill since all these skills when mastered to a point, all leads to the Forehead-Tap-O-Doom.

[Han Solo]

When Zhang Sanfeng bring Zhang Wuji to Shaolin seeking treatment.

空闻听了，沉吟良久，说道：“我少林派七十二项绝技，千百年来从无一名僧
俗弟子能练到十二项以上。张真人所学自是冠绝古今，可是敝派只觉上代列位祖师
传下来的武功太多，便是只学十分之一，也已极难。张真人再以一门神功和本派交
换，虽然盛情可感，然于本派而言，却为多余。”顿了一顿，又道：“武当派武功，
源出少林，今日若是双方交换武学，日后江湖上不明真相之人，便会说武当派固然
祖述少林，但少林派却也从张真人手上得到了好处。小僧忝为少林掌门，这般的流
言却是担代不起。”

Is this 1st ed. or 2nd ed.?

Secondly. the master that learned the 12 skills, is he from which era exactly?

Han Solo