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Thread: Could Guo Jing have shot Fa Wang?

  1. #1
    Senior Member danshu_'s Avatar
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    Default Could Guo Jing have shot Fa Wang?

    In Chapter 21 of ROCH, Guo Jing shows his prowess by firing 3 arrows which split Jin Lun Fa Wang's arrow, split JLFW's bow in half, and toppled Khubilai's flag.

    Now obviously JLFW does not want his bow that he is holding in his hand to be split in half by GJ's arrow; it's a tremendous loss of face. Yet he could do absolutely nothing about it. Does this mean that if Guo Jing had wanted to, he could have killed JLFW right then and there with his arrow? It would seem that if JLFW could catch this arrow if it was aiming at him, he would also be able to catch the one aiming for his bow.

  2. #2
    Junior Member rikastar's Avatar
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    probably wouldnt have hurt him much since the distance would have negate the impact

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    If the Golden Wheel Monk is empty-handed and sees it in time, then he can *probably* do it (not sure). If he's got the bow in hand, however, it'll be trickier because he needs to drop the bow and get ready to catch the arrow. Gwok Jing's arrow will be coming at great velocity, and the extra split second it costs the Golden Wheel Monk to ditch the bow could cost him.

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    Senior Member yittz's Avatar
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    Omg i wanted to bring that up, ba you beat me to it.

    If the impact could break a bow, then it would penetrate JLFW's chest. I think in that moment JLFW was perplexed by GJ's archery skill (shooting down his arrow) rather than concentrating what was coming. I think he could have dodged or caught it if he was more focused. In that situation...really dont know. If he can't protect a thin bow, why should we expect him to protect his whole body? The next question is why wasnt GJ more practical instead of being a show off

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yittz
    Omg i wanted to bring that up, ba you beat me to it.

    If the impact could break a bow, then it would penetrate JLFW's chest. I think in that moment JLFW was perplexed by GJ's archery skill (shooting down his arrow) rather than concentrating what was coming. I think he could have dodged or caught it if he was more focused. In that situation...really dont know. If he can't protect a thin bow, why should we expect him to protect his whole body? The next question is why wasnt GJ more practical instead of being a show off
    I think the bow was something of a shield (unintentionally) for the Golden Wheel Monk. It was an obstacle between Gwok Jing's arrow and the monk's body. I don't think Gwok Jing had a clear shot at the monk.

    But I think maybe Gwok Jing should have saved everyone some trouble and just taken a shot at Kublai.

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    Junior Member rikastar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    I think the bow was something of a shield (unintentionally) for the Golden Wheel Monk. It was an obstacle between Gwok Jing's arrow and the monk's body. I don't think Gwok Jing had a clear shot at the monk.

    But I think maybe Gwok Jing should have saved everyone some trouble and just taken a shot at Kublai.
    well he couldnt take a shot at Kublai because he was not meant to die at that time..

  7. #7
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rikastar
    well he couldnt take a shot at Kublai because he was not meant to die at that time..
    Darn History Shields....

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    not only that but Kublai Khan was the son of his anda (brother)
    and that he grew up in Mongolia under the shelter of Genghis Khan
    and most of all, with a honest character Guo Jing had, he wouldn't have killed anyone even if he had the chance. he just wanted them out of his countryland.

  9. #9
    Senior Member danshu_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    I think the bow was something of a shield (unintentionally) for the Golden Wheel Monk. It was an obstacle between Gwok Jing's arrow and the monk's body. I don't think Gwok Jing had a clear shot at the monk.

    But I think maybe Gwok Jing should have saved everyone some trouble and just taken a shot at Kublai.
    A bow is like.. pretty small and thin... Guo Jing can split an arrow in two no sweat, there's no way he couldnt get a clear shot cause there was a bow in the way

    Quote Originally Posted by rikastar
    probably wouldnt have hurt him much since the distance would have negate the impact
    i think its easier to pierce a throat then to shatter a bow.
    Last edited by danshu_; 03-30-06 at 01:01 PM.

  10. #10
    Senior Member danshu_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yittz
    Omg i wanted to bring that up, ba you beat me to it.

    If the impact could break a bow, then it would penetrate JLFW's chest. I think in that moment JLFW was perplexed by GJ's archery skill (shooting down his arrow) rather than concentrating what was coming. I think he could have dodged or caught it if he was more focused. In that situation...really dont know. If he can't protect a thin bow, why should we expect him to protect his whole body? The next question is why wasnt GJ more practical instead of being a show off
    I agree with you. I think JLFW would have died right there if GJ had wanted him to. I even wonder whether its only cause he was awed or not. It begs the question as to whether GJ can kill all these guys supposedly on par with him just by shooting them.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danshu_
    A bow is like.. pretty small and thin... Guo Jing can split an arrow in two no sweat, there's no way he couldnt get a clear shot cause there was a bow in the way
    The bow probably provides just enough resistance, however, for a Greats-level fighter such as the Golden Wheel Monk to get out of the way. The bow is a disadvantage to the Golden Wheel Monk in the sense that it would take him another split second to drop it if his intent were to catch Gwok Jing's arrow with his hand, but it's also an advantage to the monk if his intent is to let his weapon take the brunt of the strike, giving him an extra split second to move out of the way.

  12. #12
    Senior Member danshu_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    The bow probably provides just enough resistance, however, for a Greats-level fighter such as the Golden Wheel Monk to get out of the way. The bow is a disadvantage to the Golden Wheel Monk in the sense that it would take him another split second to drop it if his intent were to catch Gwok Jing's arrow with his hand, but it's also an advantage to the monk if his intent is to let his weapon take the brunt of the strike, giving him an extra split second to move out of the way.
    But Guo Jing purposely cracked the bow in half... he wasn't aiming for JLFW. And JLFW is almost surely holding the bow in his left hand, why would he have to drop it to catch an arrow? I dunno, i guess i'm not following you on this one..

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danshu_
    But Guo Jing purposely cracked the bow in half... he wasn't aiming for JLFW. And JLFW is almost surely holding the bow in his left hand, why would he have to drop it to catch an arrow? I dunno, i guess i'm not following you on this one..
    A bow is cumbersome. Even if one is only holding the bow in one hand and the other hand is free, the bow and the arm of the hand that's carrying it will be in the way of the free hand. In order to catch Gwok Jing's incoming arrow, the Golden Wheel Monk will need to move his bow-carrying hand out of the way of his free hand...either by dropping the bow or by swinging it aside. That gesture will only take a split second, but that split second could mean the difference between life and death.

    And even if Gwok Jing were aiming specifically for the bow and not the Golden Wheel Monk, the fact is that the Golden Wheel Monk is standing right behind the bow held by his extended hand and arm. If he doesn't move, the arrow goes on to wound him.

  14. #14
    Senior Member danshu_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    A bow is cumbersome. Even if one is only holding the bow in one hand and the other hand is free, the bow and the arm of the hand that's carrying it will be in the way of the free hand. In order to catch Gwok Jing's incoming arrow, the Golden Wheel Monk will need to move his bow-carrying hand out of the way of his free hand...either by dropping the bow or by swinging it aside. That gesture will only take a split second, but that split second could mean the difference between life and death.

    And even if Gwok Jing were aiming specifically for the bow and not the Golden Wheel Monk, the fact is that the Golden Wheel Monk is standing right behind the bow held by his extended hand and arm. If he doesn't move, the arrow goes on to wound him.
    So, in your opinion, could Guo Jing have killed JLFW right then and there, if he had wanted to?

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danshu_
    So, in your opinion, could Guo Jing have killed JLFW right then and there, if he had wanted to?
    Just as if they'd fought hand to hand, I'd say it's a 50/50 chance. Gwok Jing and his former teacher Jebeh were the finest archers the Mongol Empire had seen, but the Golden Wheel Monk was no bird just waiting to be shot down.

  16. #16
    Senior Member danshu_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    Just as if they'd fought hand to hand, I'd say it's a 50/50 chance. Gwok Jing and his former teacher Jebeh were the finest archers the Mongol Empire had seen, but the Golden Wheel Monk was no bird just waiting to be shot down.
    Here is the relevant passage, from Noodles' translation. It appears to me that in this particular moment, the Golden Wheel Monk was indeed a bird waiting to be shot down. He was obviously totally out of it and and Guo Jing's mercy.

    "When Guo Jing was in midair, he thought wouldn’t it mean he had lost out in this exchange if he doesn’t reply to this sneak attack by this evil monk? He saw Fa Wang had fired another arrow. As soon as his left foot touched the top of the city walls he immediately grabbed a bow from one of the guards and fired an arrow of his own towards Fa Wang’s arrow. The arrows collided in midair and Fa Wang’s arrow was split into two. Fa Wang was stunned. Suddenly, a fierce gust arrived; a ‘zheng’ sound was heard as the metal bow in his hands snapped into two.

    Though Guo Jing’s and Fa Wang’s martial arts were within a hairsbreadth of each other, Guo Jing’s archery skills were unsurpassed. He had learned archery from one of the greatest Mongolian archers Zhe Bie (Jebeh) while he was young and his internal energy was profound – when it came to archery, Fa Wang lost out.

    Guo Jing had fired three arrows; the first divided Fa Wang’s arrow, the second snapped Fa Wang’s bow and the third was fired out towards Khubilai’s flag."

  17. #17
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    That was a great sequence, wasn't it? Probably one of the all-time great heroic scenes in the history of wuxia fiction, especially for Gwok Jing fans such as me.

    The text indicates that when Gwok Jing shot his arrow, the Golden Wheel Monk's arrow was already in flight. That means Gwok Jing really didn't have the luxury of time for ideal target selection. Gwok Jing just had to intercept the monk's arrow, first and foremost. As the greatest of archers, Gwok Jing had enough skill to also hit incidental targets such as the Golden Wheel Monk's bow and Kublai's flag, but circumstances probably prohibited Gwok Jing from hitting the ideal target (i.e. the Golden Wheel Monk's heart).

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    Senior Member danshu_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    That was a great sequence, wasn't it? Probably one of the all-time great heroic scenes in the history of wuxia fiction, especially for Gwok Jing fans such as me.

    The text indicates that when Gwok Jing shot his arrow, the Golden Wheel Monk's arrow was already in flight. That means Gwok Jing really didn't have the luxury of time for ideal target selection. Gwok Jing just had to intercept the monk's arrow, first and foremost. As the greatest of archers, Gwok Jing had enough skill to also hit incidental targets such as the Golden Wheel Monk's bow and Kublai's flag, but circumstances probably prohibited Gwok Jing from hitting the ideal target (i.e. the Golden Wheel Monk's heart).
    It still seems very clear to me Guo Jing hit JLFW's bow on purpose. He can even hit the tip of an arrow while its in flight! That means he can even hit one of JLFW's pressure points, nevermind his heart. Whatever, I guess there's no point in beating this topic into the ground, I've said my bit.

  19. #19
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danshu_
    It still seems very clear to me Guo Jing hit JLFW's bow on purpose. He can even hit the tip of an arrow while its in flight! That means he can even hit one of JLFW's pressure points, nevermind his heart.
    Yes, hitting one (the Golden Wheel Monk's arrowtip) isn't difficult for Gwok Jing. Even hitting two (the Golden Wheel Monk's bow) isn't out of the question as long as they're in line with each other. Hitting all three (the Golden Wheel Monk's heart) is probably too much to ask unless Gwok Jing has a magic arrow that can change direction in midflight.

  20. #20
    Senior Member danshu_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    Yes, hitting one (the Golden Wheel Monk's arrowtip) isn't difficult for Gwok Jing. Even hitting two (the Golden Wheel Monk's bow) isn't out of the question as long as they're in line with each other. Hitting all three (the Golden Wheel Monk's heart) is probably too much to ask unless Gwok Jing has a magic arrow that can change direction in midflight.
    Huh? Guo Jing fired three separate arrows all in different directions, not one:

    "Guo Jing had fired three arrows; the first divided Fa Wang’s arrow, the second snapped Fa Wang’s bow and the third was fired out towards Khubilai’s flag."

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