Who is the greatest hero (in Jing Yongs work)?

[kidd]

Werd. Xiao Feng made 1 selfless act at the end of his life. Zhang Wuji lived his entire life selflessly.

Loving more than 1 girl and entertaining ideas of polygamy is a HUGE sin to some people. Only death can atoned such a HUMONGOUS sin. It's so HUMONGOUS that it totally overshadows whatever selfless deed ZWJ did in his life.

[Dirt]

Loving more than 1 girl and entertaining ideas of polygamy is a HUGE sin to some people. Only death can atoned such a HUMONGOUS sin. It's so HUMONGOUS that it totally overshadows whatever selfless deed ZWJ did in his life.

It was common, once upon a time, for a man to have many wives. It's not a sin to love more than one person, it's a sin to consummate that love with many people. Even then, it's a sin after your married. Before that, you're not supposed to have sexual relations with anyone.

[Ken Cheng]

Loving more than 1 girl and entertaining ideas of polygamy is a HUGE sin to some people. Only death can atoned such a HUMONGOUS sin. It's so HUMONGOUS that it totally overshadows whatever selfless deed ZWJ did in his life.

I'm guessing you don't take that position.

[kidd]

It was common, once upon a time, for a man to have many wives. It's not a sin to love more than one person, it's a sin to consummate that love with many people. Even then, it's a sin after your married. Before that, you're not supposed to have sexual relations with anyone.

Note to self : Refrain from using any words that might lead to religious talk in non-religious discussion.

Note to self again: must put big signs to inform readers when being sarcastic.

[Dirt]

Murder is an even bigger sin. How many people did Xiao Feng kill and how many people did Zhang Wuji kill?

[kidd]

I'm guessing you don't take that position.

No, I don't. His selflessness,kind-heartedness and forgiving the enemy for the greater good of sociaty outweighs his indecisiveness in affairs of the heart in my book.

[Ken Cheng]

Murder is an even bigger sin. How many people did Xiao Feng kill and how many people did Zhang Wuji kill?

Kiu Fung killed many people, but not one of his killings in wulin was an act of murder (not even Ah Chu). All those who died at Kiu Fung's hands died in fair combat against him.

The only exception is that callous doctor that Kiu Fung killed during childhood. That was murder.

[danshu_]

Kiu Fung killed many people, but not one of his killings in wulin was an act of murder (not even Ah Chu). All those who died at Kiu Fung's hands died in fair combat against him.

The only exception is that callous doctor that Kiu Fung killed during childhood. That was murder.

Zhang Wuji also had the opportunity to kill many, many people in fair combat but chose not to. I'm not really criticising Xiao Feng here, but wulin people in general take lives way to easily. Zhang Wuji was exceptional in this regard.

[kidd]

Zhang Wuji also had the opportunity to kill many, many people in fair combat but chose not to. I'm not really criticising Xiao Feng here, but wulin people in general take lives way to easily. Zhang Wuji was exceptional in this regard.

Actually, Duan Yu, Shi Po Tian and Xu Zhu also don't take lives easily.

[danshu_]

Actually, Duan Yu, Shi Po Tian and Xu Zhu also don't take lives easily.

Correct They are also exceptional in this regard

[Wu Xing]

the above, awaiting for jin yong's will, my heros are:
1. guo jing
2. duan yu

Interesting, GJ and DY are probably the two characters in JY's novels that I currently like the most although I probably don't want to call DY as the "hero" though. Among characters in JY novels, when talking about "hero", the 2 names immediately raise in my mind, that is, XF and GJ. Both of them, to me, are "hero" in almost (if not all) every possible definitions. Nevertheless, I like many characters in JY's novels including GJ, DY, HYS, ZWJ, LHC, etc.

Honestly, I think many people don't like DY that much and I think I can feel why they don't like him. In fact, if I have a good chance, I like to spend time and write something about why I really like DY as a character.

[dbx]

Biggest hero in all JY's work is Temujin.

But if you take out historical figures, Zhang Wu Ji, Yang Guo come pretty close to each other.

But taking away all the things that Yang Guo did during the sixteen years that didn't get explained, then Zhang Wu Ji would come out on top.

I think Guo Jing spent too much time trying to avoid doing what was wrong always wondering what stupid rule of his teachers he was going to break.

Zhang Wu Ji and Yang Guo went against convention and did what they felt was right against orthodox rules and pressure. Guo Jing was a weaker character from a earlier part of his writing and not as well developed a protagonist then his later works.

You can also see all of Guo Jing associates and disciples turn out very very poorly.

Xiao Feng is a character of vengence, and thus tragedy. To me, he's a Count of Monte Cristo like character, doomed, dooming himself.

[yittz]

I agree. Because of GJ's resoluteness to do what was 'right', his didn't really have a personality. He seemed more like an idealism rather than reality.

When it comes down to the greatest 'hero', our definitions are quite varied - what do we value more? keeping promises, following tradition and societal rules, going against conventions to do what's right, protecting themselves and their loved ones or looking at the big picture - protecting everyone else.

Maybe we should rank achievements throughout the novel given their circumstances.

To Dbx, can you expand on your comment about Mount Cristo. I read that book in chinese, so I wasnt able to analyse it more further than understanding the plot - so how was his life more tragic from his vengeful actions?

[Ken Cheng]

I agree. Because of GJ's resoluteness to do what was 'right', his didn't really have a personality. He seemed more like an idealism rather than reality.

LOCH, particularly the end of the story, was a test of Gwok Jing's personality. He had always been an idealist: a man who believed that a single individual could make a difference and change the world for the better. He was also a man who believed in firm and definite principles of right and wrong. From his experiences, those principles were sorely tested. Towards the end of LOCH, he *nearly* gave in to despair and disillusionment.

In the end, however, he didn't...and that was when the hero was really born.

[wkeej]

I wouldn't blame Cheung Mo Gei for not marrying Chow Chi Yerk. She tricked him into it in an act of bad faith.

I blame zwj for not marrying zzr. since she has turned good, he must marry her according to the promise.

[Ken Cheng]

I blame zwj for not marrying zzr. since she has turned good, he must marry her according to the promise.

No.

She lied, cheated, and murdered to manipulate Cheung Mo Gei into a position to marry her. Just because she repented later doesn't mean all that was OK. Frankly, Cheung Mo Gei should have *killed* her for what she'd done. She was lucky that he was too compassionate and sentimental to do so.

[wkeej]

No.

She lied, cheated, and murdered to manipulate Cheung Mo Gei into a position to marry her. Just because she repented later doesn't mean all that was OK. Frankly, Cheung Mo Gei should have *killed* her for what she'd done. She was lucky that he was too compassionate and sentimental to do so.

I "hate" you, Ken.

[yittz]

So ZZR is allowed to deceive her ZWJ. But ZWJ can't break a promise to ZZR. I think ZWJ did very well to forgive her. Look at all the harm she cause and nearly caused by not using her noggie and listening to a blind MJ. I think there will be more outcry if ZWJ chose ZZR ahead of ZM, who has always been there for him.

And rescue Xiao Zhao? And risk war between east and west Ming cult, and maybe international war between china and persia? How can ZWJ risk the safety and peace of two parties for his and Xiao Zhao's benefit only? Our definitions of heroism is obviously different, but to me letting it rest is more a heroic act than doing something to rescue Xiao Zhao.

The only person who can rescue xiao zhao is her self, not ZWJ.

[AnhHung]

It seems that we do not agree on what a hero is, but thats OK. It would be wrong to force everybody to agree on one definition, not that it is possible anyway. Lets have a recap:

The heros so far are:
XF, figthing for peace between Hans and Khitans
GJ, defending against the Mongols
DY, for his kindness and keeping his word
ZWJ, for his kindness and "letting go"
Z3F, ?
LWC, ?
Temujin, ?

After reading this thread, Ive learned alot. And I'm leaning more and more towards ZWJ.

[yittz]

Temujin for kicking butt, and nearly completing his dream - the lord between the two oceans.

Uniting the mongolians, destroying Jin, destroying Persia, forcing the great muslim empires back, scaring the sith out of Europe, and well china. Only 2 'devine winds' and lots of gold kept Japan and India from getting sacked.

In the book, he seems wise and charismatic, know how to lead his people. His vision turned him great, his power turned that sour.