Who is the greatest hero (in Jing Yongs work)?

[kidd]

Well Xiao Feng sort of killed the person he loved because of vengence. *hint* *hint*

Anyways, Alexander Dumas is supposedly the western writer that most influenced JY. I find this to be more or less accurate.

I think most people will say that Xiao Feng's the greatest hero because of the might of his martial arts, his bravery, but mostly because of the might of his martial arts. Xiao Feng to me was a very well developed tragic hero, a supremely powerful man driven to tragedy on his quest for vengence.

You really don't understand XF if u think people just think he's a hero because of his awesome martial art. Why don't they all become Sweeper Monk's fans then?
Most people think he's the greatest hero because of his final act of self-sacrificing for the good of both sides. Of course, his awesome martial art earn him more fans, but most people who actually think he's a hero (instead of just plain like him as a fighter) didn't base it on his fight prowess alone.

XF is not all about revenge. Initially, yes, he might be driven by vengence and he's was way too aggressive. But he grows with the story. From an aggresive guy set on vengence, he became a compasionate person who value life. That's why he choose to commit suicide at the end. He didn't want anymore people to get hurt be it Liao or Han.

[one>two]

GJ and YG are a different kind of hero.

GJ is For his country, For his people, THE hero of a generation. Committed and loyal to the country he protects. If the people of Song had 1/10 his patriotism, they would not fall to the Mongols.

YG on the other hand is just as selfless as GJ, willing to risk his (and XLN’s) life defending HR’s honour at the restaurant. He told HR to leave while he and XLN hold GWM off.

GJ is like Captain America/Superman while YG is sort of like Spiderman/Batman. Heroes on a different scale but same amount of heroism (if it can be measured).

People always say GJ had an easy life compared to YG, it seems those people haven’t read LOCH. GJ had to see his mom commit suicide to save himself, he had to bury his 7 teachers with his own hands (this event tore HR away from him forever, it didn’t but he didn’t know that for some time). Don’t know if I can still live if that happened to me..

[lthlth]

ZWJ all the way!

In my book, being a hero is not about accomplishing a monumental task but to look at the character of a person. If a person is virtuous and kind, s/he will do any heroic deeds when the opportunities are there for him to do so.

I admire ZWJ based on the following deeds:

He took Yang Buhui to her dad, a journey of thousands of kilometers. He didn't even know the child's mom that well, almost like agreeing to take care of a stranger's kid.

When he decided to take 3 blows from MJST to save "common" Ming soldiers from being slaughtered. He administered first aid to them and was able to relate to them by saying that these men had parents and children to come back to and their deaths would cause orphans. Look at the heart where this sentiment arose! He almost died from her blows. Luckily he had a flash of insight into 9Yang that saved his life.

He didn't extract deadly vengeance on the people who wronged him.

He saved the Ming Sect and unified them with his virtue. From that point, Ming sect was able to strengthen their effort in driving out the Mongols.

He saved the 6 major sects. But for him, they would have perished under the Mongols.

He wasn't greedy for position or power and was able to relinquish control because he felt he wasn't the best person to lead. He gave up for the best of the country.

[Ken Cheng]

He took Yang Buhui to her dad, a journey of thousands of kilometers. He didn't even know the child's mom that well, almost like agreeing to take care of a stranger's kid.

Most impressively at all, he barely had any fighting skills to speak of at the time. It's one thing to do this if he has superhuman powers, but at that point, he was just a 15 year old sickly kid with minimal martial arts training. That didn't matter. He risked life and limb to protect a little girl and reunite her with her father, and treated her very kindly and gently along the way. It's sad to say I don't know any 15 year olds with such strength of character in real life.

Cheung Mo Gei was, in many ways, the most enlightened and humane of all the Jin Yong main heroes. I don't understand why people rag on the guy just because his love life was a bit of a mess. All the good he accomplished in his life and the noble spirit within him *more* than made up for that one flaw.

[Dennis Chen]

ZWJ all the way!

In my book, being a hero is not about accomplishing a monumental task but to look at the character of a person. If a person is virtuous and kind, s/he will do any heroic deeds when the opportunities are there for him to do so.

I admire ZWJ based on the following deeds:

He took Yang Buhui to her dad, a journey of thousands of kilometers. He didn't even know the child's mom that well, almost like agreeing to take care of a stranger's kid.

When he decided to take 3 blows from MJST to save "common" Ming soldiers from being slaughtered. He administered first aid to them and was able to relate to them by saying that these men had parents and children to come back to and their deaths would cause orphans. Look at the heart where this sentiment arose! He almost died from her blows. Luckily he had a flash of insight into 9Yang that saved his life.

He didn't extract deadly vengeance on the people who wronged him.

He saved the Ming Sect and unified them with his virtue. From that point, Ming sect was able to strengthen their effort in driving out the Mongols.

He saved the 6 major sects. But for him, they would have perished under the Mongols.

He wasn't greedy for position or power and was able to relinquish control because he felt he wasn't the best person to lead. He gave up for the best of the country.

Werd. Everyone puts Xiao Feng on a pedestal because he gave his life for thousands and thousands of people at the end of his story. Zhang Wuji was willing to die for only a small group of people which I think is even harder to do. Giving up his own life to save other lives was a no brainer for Zhang Wuji, yet his compassion for others is seen as wishy-washy by so many readers. Xiao Feng's compassion is seen as a monumental feat at the end of the story but it was only 1 act whereas Zhang Wuji acted compassionately everyday of his life.

[Extremer88]

Werd. Everyone puts Xiao Feng on a pedestal because he gave his life for thousands and thousands of people at the end of his story. Zhang Wuji was willing to die for only a small group of people which I think is even harder to do. Giving up his own life to save other lives was a no brainer for Zhang Wuji, yet his compassion for others is seen as wishy-washy by so many readers. Xiao Feng's compassion is seen as a monumental feat at the end of the story but it was only 1 act whereas Zhang Wuji acted compassionately everyday of his life.

ZWJ acted compassionately everyday of his life, yes, he was very kind, but ZWJ was in fact a dirty little lewd guy. On the other hand, SPT is better than XF and ZWJ.

[Ken Cheng]

ZWJ acted compassionately everyday of his life, yes, he was very kind, but ZWJ was in fact a dirty little lewd guy.

Huh? You'd better explain this one, Extremer. I can't think of a single example of Cheung Mo Gei ever being "dirty" or "lewd." The only lewd individual among Jin Yong's main characters was Wai Siu Bo. The rest of them were so chaste it was unbelievable at times.

[Extremer88]

I think I got too carried away. LOL. ZWJ being chaste??? Physically yes, but mentally not.

The problem with me is when I read HSDS, I can't help but think that what a dirty lewd guy ZWJ is.

How many girls/ did he say he wanted to spent his own life with before?
Zhao Min, Zhou Zhi Ruo, Xiao Zhao, Yin Li, Zhu Jiu Zhen, Yang Bu Hui.

How many times did ZWJ hug or kiss them in the novel? Countless... Basically he's not wishy-washy, he's just dirty. He wants all 4 or them to stay with him. That's plain disappointing for a big successful man like him. XF, XZ, GJ, YG, LHC were faithful towards their partners, and they also did not have any sexual thoughts towards their partners.

ZWJ was actually one of my favourite characters, but if those girls do not exist, he probably become more accomplished.

Actually I do not want to say this but, ZWJ THREW AWAY THE FACE OF ALL THE MEN ON EARTH!

[AnhHung]

Ive always been a ZWJ fan, but never thought of him as THE hero. When I was little and saw only the adaptation, I thought that he was selfish because he chose love before nation. He could have been the one driving the Mongols out. Later when I read the book, I understod that this act is not selfish. But it is after reading this thread that I truly understand the affect he had.

My current choice of hero(s):

1. XF and ZWJ
2. GJ

I have also two question that I would like to ask the wuxia-oracles in this forum.

1. Does a great act of sacrifice for the greater good at the end more admirable than living a virtouse life? I admire XF for his act at the end and ZWJ for the "smaller" deeds he did his whole life.

2. Does a hero need to be good? Many people and some in this forum consider Djengis Khan as a hero. History tells us that he is a ruthless warlord that slaughtered sometimes a whole city. But he also united the mongol-tribes and lay the ground for one of the biggest empire in history. Surly, this must benifit the mongols a great deal.

It seems that some in this forum values the deeds done on a more personal level, and some on the greater/nationwise level.

And finaly, from a newbie to a newbie: Welcome one>two!

[AnhHung]

Actually I do not want to say this but, ZWJ THREW AWAY THE FACE OF ALL THE MEN ON EARTH!

What!??? I would rather say that he represented almost ALL men on earth. Who doesnt have sexual thoughts of there love ones. Who doesnt fantasize about beautiful girls. If I have four girls adoring me (which I dont ), I would definitly fantasize about marrying all four of them. Remember that it wasnt strange for men to have several wifes in that time.

So Extremer88; do you not fantasize?

[atlantean0208]

What!??? I would rather say that he represented almost ALL men on earth. Who doesnt have sexual thoughts of there love ones. Who doesnt fantasize about beautiful girls. If I have four girls adoring me (which I dont ), I would definitly fantasize about marrying all four of them. Remember that it wasnt strange for men to have several wifes in that time.

So Extremer88; do you not fantasize?

my instinct told me that Extremer88 is a girl

[kidd]

Extreme88 is a girl?!

[kidd]

ZWJ acted compassionately everyday of his life, yes, he was very kind, but ZWJ was in fact a dirty little lewd guy. On the other hand, SPT is better than XF and ZWJ.

Haha, I doubt SPT even knows what the word 'hero' means. But he sure is heroic.

[AnhHung]

my instinct told me that Extremer88 is a girl

Ops!

[Extremer88]

*Speculation* Am I a boy or a girl? Guess yourself...

[Ken Cheng]

I think I got too carried away. LOL. ZWJ being chaste??? Physically yes, but mentally not.

The problem with me is when I read HSDS, I can't help but think that what a dirty lewd guy ZWJ is.

Only if you're a Puritan.

Cheung Mo Gei wasn't a monk or a eunuch, nor was he a candidate for becoming either. *Why* should we expect him to not have sensual desires?

How many girls/ did he say he wanted to spent his own life with before? Zhao Min, Zhou Zhi Ruo, Xiao Zhao, Yin Li, Zhu Jiu Zhen, Yang Bu Hui.

Not Yeung But Fui. Cheung Mo Gei was no pedophile.

With the exception of Chiu Mun, Cheung Mo Gei thought each of the other girls was "the one" until he learned some unpleasant truths about them. Chu 9 Jen lied to him. Siu Chiu lied to him. Chow Chi Yerk lied to him. Chu-yee didn't lie to him, but she was murdered (and in any case, they were cousins; they couldn't really marry). Chiu Mun lied to him as well, I suppose, but not in a manner that precluded their future happiness together.

Chiu Mun was always the one for Cheung Mo Gei; she just happened to be the last to appear on stage (she's probably the Jin Yong female protagonist who debuted the latest in her novel).

How many times did ZWJ hug or kiss them in the novel? Countless... Basically he's not wishy-washy, he's just dirty.

Only if one is dirty minded. Is hugging or kissing a member of the opposite sex *necessarily* a sexually suggestive act? No.

He wants all 4 or them to stay with him. That's plain disappointing for a big successful man like him. XF, XZ, GJ, YG, LHC were faithful towards their partners, and they also did not have any sexual thoughts towards their partners.

Most of the other guys were also lucky enough to hit the right one on their first try. Had the right women fall figuratively into their laps, as a matter of fact. Whom did Kiu Fung have before Ah Chu? Nobody. Whom did Hui Juk have before the Hsi Hsia princess? Nobody. Whom did Gwok Jing have before Wong Yung? Princess Hua Jeng, but he thought of her as a sister (this was not because Gwok Jing was some chaste-minded saint; it's only because he never had any sexual interest in Hua Jeng). Whom did Yeung Gor have before Little Dragon Girl? Nobody. As for Ling Wu Chung, didn't it take a while for him to come around to loving Yam Ying Ying instead of his younger martial sister Ngok Ling San?

ZWJ was actually one of my favourite characters, but if those girls do not exist, he probably become more accomplished.

I think they're entirely separate issues, and one doesn't really affect the other.

Actually I do not want to say this but, ZWJ THREW AWAY THE FACE OF ALL THE MEN ON EARTH!

I thought he did fine under the circumstances.

[wkeej]

*Speculation* Am I a boy or a girl? Guess yourself...

you speak so crudely. how can you be a girl? i can only confirm two girls in this forum - kidd for being so forever fierce and green destiny for being so forever nice.

[wkeej]

sorry, double post

[Extremer88]

you speak so crudely. how can you be a girl? i can only confirm two girls in this forum - kidd for being so forever fierce and green destiny for being so forever nice.

Haha, ain't Athena a girl?

[Dirt]

Xiao Feng was willing to give up all of wulin for Ah Zhu before he killed her.