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Thread: Gu Long continuity again...

  1. #21
    Senior Member TigerWong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bliss
    There is actually a nice passage in Tianya, Mingyue, Dao which tries to tie in a lot of the timeline of the "Dagger Lee" series. Basically, it mentions the heroes who dominated the last 4 decades. The first decade was dominated by Shen Lang (Wulin Waishi), the second decade was owned by Li Xunhuan (Duoqing Jianke), the third decade belonged to Ye Kai (Jiuyue / Biancheng), and the fourth decade belonged to Gongzi Yu. This at least suggests that those novels were about 10 years apart from each other.
    I remember that passage too. But if you examine it too closely, even this timeline is stretching things. Ye Kai can't dominate until he makes his debut, and that's around age 18. If Li XunHuan dominated the decade right before, that would mean that his peak occured post Sentimental Swordsman. And we know that Li has been famous, and included in the Book of Weapons, even before then. And that pushes Shen Lang further back too.

    Of course, you can read it in more general terms. Not necessarily that they were all exactly 10 years apart, which is impossible, but that they each played their largest roles within a 10 year window in that relative order. But then that would contradict the "last 4 decades" remark.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Temujin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bliss
    Well, in his own words, Fu Hongxue is a killer, not a hero. Only heroes are recognized as the renowned figures of their eras.
    In which novel did he say that ? To me, FHX is always full of vengeance type of guy, looking to take his revenge, so I think he kills for some sort of reasons, though he is very cold-blooded at times, he is not just some mass murderer.

    But since he said it himself ...
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  3. #23
    Senior Member Extremer88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    Was there a top 10 weapon rank in Shen Lang's time? How about 10 years after Li Xunhuan's peak?
    The "Book of Weapons" or 兵器谱 is written by Bao Xiao Sheng, and it only exists during the time of LXH.
    ..ext88

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Temujin
    In which novel did he say that ? To me, FHX is always full of vengeance type of guy, looking to take his revenge, so I think he kills for some sort of reasons, though he is very cold-blooded at times, he is not just some mass murderer.

    But since he said it himself ...
    I don't think he considers himself a mass-murderer or anything of that sort. I believe he just doesn't consider himself a hero much like how Ximen Chuixue would be reluctant to classify himself as a hero. They are swordsman and believe that the only thing they dispense is death.
    明月心跳起來,又回頭,嫣然道,你還要不要我帶上那面具?
    傅紅雪冷道,現在你臉上豈非已經戴上了個面具?

  5. #25
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Back on this subject, how long after the events of SENTIMENTAL SWORDSMAN, RUTHLESS SWORD did the events of FULL MOON, CURVED SABRE occur? Was there anybody who lived during the time of Lee Chum Foon and Ah Fei still alive during the time of Ding Pang?

  6. #26
    Senior Member TigerWong's Avatar
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    The granddaughter (or was it great-granddaughter... can't remember exactly..) of Long XiaoYun, the young boy whom Li XunHuan stripped of his martial arts, appears in "Full Moon, Curved Sabre". She was a teenager, so you can make your own estimates from there. I'd think there'd be at least a period of around 50 years or so in between the stories.

  7. #27
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigerWong View Post
    The granddaughter (or was it great-granddaughter... can't remember exactly..) of Long XiaoYun, the young boy whom Li XunHuan stripped of his martial arts, appears in "Full Moon, Curved Sabre". She was a teenager, so you can make your own estimates from there. I'd think there'd be at least a period of around 50 years or so in between the stories.
    Was that Ding Heung, Ching Ching's servant, who demonstrated some proficiency with Little Lee's Flying Dagger?

  8. #28
    Senior Member TigerWong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Was that Ding Heung, Ching Ching's servant, who demonstrated some proficiency with Little Lee's Flying Dagger?
    That would be the one, although in the novel she was called Xiao Xiang (Siu Heang). Her real last name would be Long, of course.

  9. #29
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigerWong View Post
    That would be the one, although in the novel she was called Xiao Xiang (Siu Heang). Her real last name would be Long, of course.
    As of the end of SENTIMENTAL SWORDSMAN, RUTHLESS SWORD, the Lung family (at least the father and son) were on bad terms with Lee Chum Foon. How odd that he would teach his flying dagger skill to one of their descendents.

  10. #30
    Senior Member TigerWong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    As of the end of SENTIMENTAL SWORDSMAN, RUTHLESS SWORD, the Lung family (at least the father and son) were on bad terms with Lee Chum Foon. How odd that he would teach his flying dagger skill to one of their descendents.
    Apparently Li XunHuan felt that he owed the Long family for all they have been through. In the end, he finally realized that he shouldn't have "given" Lin ShiYan to Long XiaoYun Sr., and regretted his decision greatly (about time that idiot figured this one out...). So to make amends, he taught Xiao Xiang's grandfather his flying dagger technique and gave him one of his daggers (the more I think about it, Long XiaoYun Jr., the boy, must have been the great-grandfather then..).

    However, after discovering this, Lin ShiYan told Long XiaoYun Jr. to cripple the grandfather's hands. Although the Long family have disgraced themselves and are looked down upon by the entire martial fraternity, she will still honor her husband's name and refused to allow her family to be dependant on Li XunHuan's "charity".

    Therefore, I believe the dagger was passed down, but not the technique.

  11. #31
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigerWong View Post
    Apparently Li XunHuan felt that he owed the Long family for all they have been through. In the end, he finally realized that he shouldn't have "given" Lin ShiYan to Long XiaoYun Sr., and regretted his decision greatly (about time that idiot figured this one out...). So to make amends, he taught Xiao Xiang's grandfather his flying dagger technique and gave him one of his daggers (the more I think about it, Long XiaoYun Jr., the boy, must have been the great-grandfather then..).

    However, after discovering this, Lin ShiYan told Long XiaoYun Jr. to cripple the grandfather's hands. Although the Long family have disgraced themselves and are looked down upon by the entire martial fraternity, she will still honor her husband's name and refused to allow her family to be dependant on Li XunHuan's "charity".

    Therefore, I believe the dagger was passed down, but not the technique.
    And I thought Lam Chi Yam wanted nothing more to do with her husband after she learned how he betrayed Lee Chum Foon.

    Nevertheless, somehow, Ding Heung/Siu Heung became quite proficient with the flying dagger. She wasn't as good as Lee Chum Foon, naturally, but she was still damn good.

  12. #32
    Senior Member mawguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigerWong View Post
    Apparently Li XunHuan felt that he owed the Long family for all they have been through. In the end, he finally realized that he shouldn't have "given" Lin ShiYan to Long XiaoYun Sr., and regretted his decision greatly (about time that idiot figured this one out...). So to make amends, he taught Xiao Xiang's grandfather his flying dagger technique and gave him one of his daggers (the more I think about it, Long XiaoYun Jr., the boy, must have been the great-grandfather then..).

    However, after discovering this, Lin ShiYan told Long XiaoYun Jr. to cripple the grandfather's hands. Although the Long family have disgraced themselves and are looked down upon by the entire martial fraternity, she will still honor her husband's name and refused to allow her family to be dependant on Li XunHuan's "charity".

    Therefore, I believe the dagger was passed down, but not the technique.
    just to further clarify: li xunhuan met long xiaoyun jr. early in the story and didn't know who his parents were. LXY jr was being a real ***, and to punish him, LXH crippled him. later on, in atonement for this further injury toward lin shiyan, LXH was coerced by her to teach his flying dagger technique to her son so that he would have some skill to protect himself against enemies -- his father was totally disgraced by then.

    i haven't read the ding peng story, so i can't say how good/bad the great-granddaughter's technique is, but i know she boasted that the dagger she possessed was given to LXY jr by LXF.
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  13. #33
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mawguy View Post
    just to further clarify: li xunhuan met long xiaoyun jr. early in the story and didn't know who his parents were. LXY jr was being a real ***, and to punish him, LXH crippled him. later on, in atonement for this further injury toward lin shiyan, LXH was coerced by her to teach his flying dagger technique to her son so that he would have some skill to protect himself against enemies -- his father was totally disgraced by then.

    i haven't read the ding peng story, so i can't say how good/bad the great-granddaughter's technique is, but i know she boasted that the dagger she possessed was given to LXY jr by LXF.
    Lung Siu Wan Jr. was crippled by Lee Chum Foon, and later (if TVB didn't make this up) cut off one of his own arms after being humiliated publicly along with his father by Seung Gwoon Gum Hung. With this double injury, could Lung Jr. even make use of the dagger?

  14. #34
    Senior Member TigerWong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Lung Siu Wan Jr. was crippled by Lee Chum Foon, and later (if TVB didn't make this up) cut off one of his own arms after being humiliated publicly along with his father by Seung Gwoon Gum Hung. With this double injury, could Lung Jr. even make use of the dagger?
    I don't recall Mawguy's description/scenario, but as far as "Full Moon, Curved Sabre"'s explanation, Li XunHuan passed on the dagger + the technique to Long XiaoYun Jr's SON (and not Long XiaoYun Jr.) as atonement for his own feelings of guilt. Then, as I mentioned, Lin ShiYan made Long XiaoYun Jr cripple his son. She was too proud to accept Li XunHuan's gesture.

    So there is no contradiction w. your question as far as the description I gave (although Long XiaoYun Jr. should have recovered from his injuries anyway due to Wang LianHua's manual but thats a separate issue).
    Last edited by TigerWong; 01-23-08 at 02:19 AM.

  15. #35
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigerWong View Post
    Then, as I mentioned, Lin ShiYan made Long XiaoYun Jr cripple his son. She was too proud to accept Li XunHuan's gesture.
    These people are weird, aren't they?

  16. #36
    Senior Member TigerWong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    These people are weird, aren't they?
    Theres no shortage of eccentric people in these stories...

    And I just noticed your comment about Xiao Xiang's skill. I don't remember it as being particularly noteworthy. But I think she did admit to not knowing Dagger's Li's technique, and then went on to tell the story explaining why.

  17. #37
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigerWong View Post
    Theres no shortage of eccentric people in these stories...

    And I just noticed your comment about Xiao Xiang's skill. I don't remember it as being particularly noteworthy. But I think she did admit to not knowing Dagger's Li's technique, and then went on to tell the story explaining why.
    In TVB's GOD OF SABRE series (TVB's 1970s adaptation of FULL MOON, CURVED SABRE), Ding Heung used the flying dagger to bail her allies out of trouble on several occassions. The way her skill was depicted in the series, she might not have been Lee Chum Foon, but she was good enough to handle most threats.

  18. #38
    Senior Member mawguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigerWong View Post
    I don't recall Mawguy's description/scenario, but as far as "Full Moon, Curved Sabre"'s explanation, Li XunHuan passed on the dagger + the technique to Long XiaoYun Jr's SON (and not Long XiaoYun Jr.) as atonement for his own feelings of guilt. Then, as I mentioned, Lin ShiYan made Long XiaoYun Jr cripple his son. She was too proud to accept Li XunHuan's gesture.

    So there is no contradiction w. your question as far as the description I gave (although Long XiaoYun Jr. should have recovered from his injuries anyway due to Wang LianHua's manual but thats a separate issue).
    here's the link to the chapter where LXH cripples LXY jr:
    http://www.millionbook.net/wx/g/gulong/dqjkwqj/007.htm

    i'm still trying to find the other chapter.
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  19. #39
    Senior Member mawguy's Avatar
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    found it: DQJKWQJ Ch 12:

    珠簾掀起,一個人走了出來。

      李尋歡連呼吸都幾乎停止,但走出來的卻是那孩子,他身上仍穿著鮮紅的衣服,臉色卻蒼白如紙 。

      好仍留在簾後,只是沈聲道:莫要忘記娘方纔對你說的話,快去向李大叔敬酒。

      紅孩兒道:是。

      李尋歡的心似已絞住了,也不知該說什麼,就算他明知自己絕沒有做錯,此刻望著這孩子蒼白的臉,心裡仍不 禁有種犯罪的感覺。

      詩音,詩音,你找我來,難道就是為了要如此折磨我。

      這種酒他怎麼喝得下去,可是他又怎能不喝?

      紅孩兒道:侄兒以後雖已不能練武功,但男子漢總也不能終生托庇在父母膝下,但求李大叔念在昔日之情,傳 授給侄兒一樣防身之道,也免得侄兒受小人欺負。

      李尋歡暗中嘆了口氣,手伸出來,指尖已挾著柄小刀。

      林詩音已在簾後道:李大叔從未將飛刀傳人,有了這柄刀,你就有了護身符,還不快多謝李大叔。

      紅孩兒果然倒在地,道:多謝李大叔。

      李尋歡笑了笑,暗中去嘆息忖道:母親的愛子之心,實是無微不至,但兒子對母親又如何呢?─ ─-
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  20. #40
    Senior Member TigerWong's Avatar
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    Looks like she supported Long XiaoYun Jr. in requesting Li XunHuan to teach him some dagger skills, but it never stated that he actually took the time to do so.

    Apparently the events that took place in the rest of "Sentimental Swordsman, Ruthless Sword" must have given Lin ShiYan a change of heart, because the events described in "Full Moon, Curved Sabre" (if you consider it canon) occurred later, right before Dagger Li departed from the martial world.

    As for Ken's question, I'd imagine that if/when Li would have taught Long XiaoYun Jr. some techniques, theoretically he would have taken the appropriate steps to restore him enough to enable him to use them.

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