The tobacco pipe: a key clue to figuring out Gu Long continuity.

[Ken Cheng]

Theres no shortage of eccentric people in these stories...

And I just noticed your comment about Xiao Xiang's skill. I don't remember it as being particularly noteworthy. But I think she did admit to not knowing Dagger's Li's technique, and then went on to tell the story explaining why.

In TVB's GOD OF SABRE series (TVB's 1970s adaptation of FULL MOON, CURVED SABRE), Ding Heung used the flying dagger to bail her allies out of trouble on several occassions. The way her skill was depicted in the series, she might not have been Lee Chum Foon, but she was good enough to handle most threats.

[mawguy]

I don't recall Mawguy's description/scenario, but as far as "Full Moon, Curved Sabre"'s explanation, Li XunHuan passed on the dagger + the technique to Long XiaoYun Jr's SON (and not Long XiaoYun Jr.) as atonement for his own feelings of guilt. Then, as I mentioned, Lin ShiYan made Long XiaoYun Jr cripple his son. She was too proud to accept Li XunHuan's gesture.

So there is no contradiction w. your question as far as the description I gave (although Long XiaoYun Jr. should have recovered from his injuries anyway due to Wang LianHua's manual but thats a separate issue).

here's the link to the chapter where LXH cripples LXY jr:
http://www.millionbook.net/wx/g/gulong/dqjkwqj/007.htm

i'm still trying to find the other chapter.

[mawguy]

found it: DQJKWQJ Ch 12:

珠簾掀起，一個人走了出來。

　　李尋歡連呼吸都幾乎停止，但走出來的卻是那孩子，他身上仍穿著鮮紅的衣服，臉色卻蒼白如紙 。

　　好仍留在簾後，只是沈聲道：莫要忘記娘方纔對你說的話，快去向李大叔敬酒。

　　紅孩兒道：是。

　　李尋歡的心似已絞住了，也不知該說什麼，就算他明知自己絕沒有做錯，此刻望著這孩子蒼白的臉，心裡仍不 禁有種犯罪的感覺。

　　詩音，詩音，你找我來，難道就是為了要如此折磨我。

　　這種酒他怎麼喝得下去，可是他又怎能不喝？

　　紅孩兒道：侄兒以後雖已不能練武功，但男子漢總也不能終生托庇在父母膝下，但求李大叔念在昔日之情，傳 授給侄兒一樣防身之道，也免得侄兒受小人欺負。

　　李尋歡暗中嘆了口氣，手伸出來，指尖已挾著柄小刀。

　　林詩音已在簾後道：李大叔從未將飛刀傳人，有了這柄刀，你就有了護身符，還不快多謝李大叔。

　　紅孩兒果然×倒在地，道：多謝李大叔。

　　李尋歡笑了笑，暗中去嘆息忖道：母親的愛子之心，實是無微不至，但兒子對母親又如何呢？─ ─-

[TigerWong]

Looks like she supported Long XiaoYun Jr. in requesting Li XunHuan to teach him some dagger skills, but it never stated that he actually took the time to do so.

Apparently the events that took place in the rest of "Sentimental Swordsman, Ruthless Sword" must have given Lin ShiYan a change of heart, because the events described in "Full Moon, Curved Sabre" (if you consider it canon) occurred later, right before Dagger Li departed from the martial world.

As for Ken's question, I'd imagine that if/when Li would have taught Long XiaoYun Jr. some techniques, theoretically he would have taken the appropriate steps to restore him enough to enable him to use them.

[Ken Cheng]

Looks like she supported Long XiaoYun Jr. in requesting Li XunHuan to teach him some dagger skills, but it never stated that he actually took the time to do so.

Apparently the events that took place in the rest of "Sentimental Swordsman, Ruthless Sword" must have given Lin ShiYan a change of heart, because the events described in "Full Moon, Curved Sabre" (if you consider it canon) occurred later, right before Dagger Li departed from the martial world.

As for Ken's question, I'd imagine that if/when Li would have taught Long XiaoYun Jr. some techniques, theoretically he would have taken the appropriate steps to restore him enough to enable him to use them.

Personal ties aside, I'm surprised Lee Chum Foon would consider teaching the flying dagger skill to Lung Siu Wan, Jr. Isn't a righteous heart and moral character (or some of that philosophical/ethical mumbo jumbo that Gu Long likes to tie to his martial arts) requisite to use the flying dagger? While Lung Siu Wan Jr. wasn't completely devoid of honor, he was definitely a bit of a jacka$$. He wouldn't seem to have the moral fiber necessary to learn the flying dagger skill.

[TigerWong]

Personal ties aside, I'm surprised Lee Chum Foon would consider teaching the flying dagger skill to Lung Siu Wan, Jr. Isn't a righteous heart and moral character (or some of that philosophical/ethical mumbo jumbo that Gu Long likes to tie to his martial arts) requisite to use the flying dagger? While Lung Siu Wan Jr. wasn't completely devoid of honor, he was definitely a bit of a jacka$$. He wouldn't seem to have the moral fiber necessary to learn the flying dagger skill.

Yeah, well... I guess that really depends on how much you buy into that "mumbo-jumbo pre-requisite". Perhaps a certain level of skill can be imparted, and having a righteous heart makes it even more effective. Or perhaps he intended to teach Long XiaoYun Jr. some morality as well. Who knows...

[PJ]

I think the morality crap only worked into Ding Pang's story to hype up Li Xunhuan's legendary status. In Li Xunhuan's story, he was just a fighter．

[Ken Cheng]

I think the morality crap only worked into Ding Pang's story to hype up Li Xunhuan's legendary status. In Li Xunhuan's story, he was just a fighter．

I thought the absolute accuracy of Lee's dagger was tied into his character. Gu Long never offered any *physical* reason for it. It was never because Lee Chum Foon had the best eye or the best arm/hand or even best inner power; it was always something about Lee's heart or soul that guided the blade inevitably to its target.

[PJ]

I thought the absolute accuracy of Lee's dagger was tied into his character. Gu Long never offered any *physical* reason for it. It was never because Lee Chum Foon had the best eye or the best arm/hand or even best inner power; it was always something about Lee's heart or soul that guided the blade inevitably to its target.

Well, ALL of his characters are guided by their heart. They have become one with the sword, their heart has surpassed the limitations of human speed, etc etc, blah blah blah...

But in Ding Pang's story, he went one step further to say that Li Xunhuan was a representation of righteousness, so that's why he's so powerful.

I don't think Such raison d'tra was conceived in Li Xunhuan's own story. I even doubt Gu Long wrote that part in Ding Pang's story, which is known to be largely conceived by other writers.

[bliss]

Well, ALL of his characters are guided by their heart. They have become one with the sword, their heart has surpassed the limitations of human speed, etc etc, blah blah blah...

But in Ding Pang's story, he went one step further to say that Li Xunhuan was a representation of righteousness, so that's why he's so powerful.

I don't think Such raison d'tra was conceived in Li Xunhuan's own story. I even doubt Gu Long wrote that part in Ding Pang's story, which is known to be largely conceived by other writers.

Are you referring to the conversation between Jing Wuming and Ye Kai where he explained why Li Xunhuan was able to beat Shangguan Jinhong? That happened at the end of Bordertown Wanderer, which was definitely written by Gu Long.

[PJ]

Are you referring to the conversation between Jing Wuming and Ye Kai where he explained why Li Xunhuan was able to beat Shangguan Jinhong? That happened at the end of Bordertown Wanderer, which was definitely written by Gu Long.

You're right, my bad. I somehow thought it came out of Ding Pang's story, but it's actually from Bordertown.

[sarakoth]

Gu Long stories are usually fast paced, with lots of powerful characters and organizations being killed off. I'm not surprised that a measly decade is enough for wulin to completely change.

[CC]

I remember that passage too. But if you examine it too closely, even this timeline is stretching things. Ye Kai can't dominate until he makes his debut, and that's around age 18. If Li XunHuan dominated the decade right before, that would mean that his peak occured post Sentimental Swordsman. And we know that Li has been famous, and included in the Book of Weapons, even before then. And that pushes Shen Lang further back too.

Of course, you can read it in more general terms. Not necessarily that they were all exactly 10 years apart, which is impossible, but that they each played their largest roles within a 10 year window in that relative order. But then that would contradict the "last 4 decades" remark.

Disregarding the 'exactly 10 yrs' bit. Bai Tianyu was supposed to be so absolutely dominating yet there was no mention of him during Shangguan/Li's time.

[bliss]

Disregarding the 'exactly 10 yrs' bit. Bai Tianyu was supposed to be so absolutely dominating yet there was no mention of him during Shangguan/Li's time.

I think the assumption was that right after DQJKWQJ was when Shendaotang ascended to the top of wulin, since the Golden Currency union was toppled and left a large void. That leaves Bai Tianyu with all the time between DQJKWQJ and his death in flashback form in BCLZ to dominate. Realistically, that was at most like one or two years ...

[Ken Cheng]

So as far as I can tell, the continuity order of some of Gu Long's major works runs as follows:

CHOR LAU HEUNG series

UNOFFICIAL HISTORY OF WULIN (e.g. the Shum Long/Wong Lin Fa saga)

LITTLE LEE'S FLYING DAGGER series

THIRD YOUNG MASTER'S SWORD

FULL MOON, CURVED SABRE

LUK SIU FUNG series

[CC]

I think the assumption was that right after DQJKWQJ was when Shendaotang ascended to the top of wulin, since the Golden Currency union was toppled and left a large void. That leaves Bai Tianyu with all the time between DQJKWQJ and his death in flashback form in BCLZ to dominate. Realistically, that was at most like one or two years ...

Which still don't make sense.

Fall of Golden Currency : Year 0, Ye Kai should be aged negative. LXH goes into seclusion with Sun.

Shen Dao Dominates for some years, Bai gets killed give it min of 3yrs which is stretching it too short, Bai accumulated power and oppressed his brother for some time, if Ma Kongqun's words are anything to go by: Year 3, Ye Kai aged 1

BCLZ time, Ye Kai is 18 : That makes it Year 21.

So that leaves a gap of about 20 years between LXH's time of domination and YK's time.

[Trien Chieu]

A decade is not a long time to dominate is it? Or did the protagonists retire from active participation in wulin business? The LoCH Greats dominated for something like 30-50 years didn't they?

For Gulong, his heroes rise fast but also fall quickly.

[tape]

For Gulong, his heroes rise fast but also fall quickly.

Most JY heroes seem to enter seclusion after their main story arc ends too though. Guo Jing is really the only one that reappears.

Yang Guo is like the second oldest protagonist at 36 after Guo Jing, and he only roamed jianghu for a couple years since he spent the first decade or so training and sitting by the sea.

The Greats might have the most longevity if we're solely talking about sitting at the absolute top and being relatively known.

Linghu Chong might get a slight nod since he's talked about in DOMD and he didn't do anything patriotic like Guo Jing, Yang Guo, Xiao Feng, etc and was still remembered. Perhaps he fought until old age.

[Trien Chieu]

Gu Long stories are usually fast paced, with lots of powerful characters and organizations being killed off. I'm not surprised that a measly decade is enough for wulin to completely change.

Yeah. It's completely different than Jin Yong. In Jin Yong stories, there are fewer characters but they are pretty stable and last long whereas Gulong characters get killed like no tomorrow.

[Duy Quang Phung]

I have not read Gu Long novels, I just know of them from the TV adaptations. Can someone give me a brief run down on the order or things? Initially I thought it was:
Big Flag Hero -> Twins ->Flying Dagger - -> CLX -> Treasure Raider ( Xiao Lang) -> Curved Blade (Ding Peng)

no idea where LXF fit in.. I am probably way off on everything so please, enlighten me experts!