INTRODUCING the latest SURVIVOR extravaganza

[druid]

Could be due to the last page, when it states why the creater wanted to create this art... to counter 9yin?

[PJ]

PJ, in order to defend your 72 Shaolin arts, u completely miss druid's point. Druid made that statement about XL18Z better than the palm in 72 Shaolin art, DG9J better sword art in 72 Shaolin art to show that being specialised is not neccessary the best.

I hereby apologize if I have misunderstood any of druid's posts. However I find some of his/her wording/logic rather confusing, as I will illustrate in a little bit below.

He made a statement to show something, you say. But what exactly is that statement based on? Gut feelings?

This is your statement : "9 Yang's qing gong cannot compare to a specialized qing gong art like Ling Bo Wei Bu. 9 Yang's palm stance cannot compare to a specialized palm style like 18 Dragon Palms."

Yes, that's standard logic, I think. 9 Yang is an internal art. Of course it cannot compare to specialized palm, sword, or qing gong arts. On the other hand, Shaolin's 72 arts are SPECIALIZED. They are more likely to be on par with those popular specialized palm, sword, or qing gong arts. Furthermore I have previously provided evidence to back my claim.

Since you love 72 Shaolin art so much, druid purposely use 72 Shaolin arts as an example to show that not specialised doesn't mean inferior and specialised doesn't neccessary mean best, because u obviously think very highly of 72 Shaolin art and does not think 72 art inferior to the other specialised arts.

His statement doesn't mean he thinks 72 Shaolin art is inferior to the specialised art. He said 'based on your statement', mean he is arguing about your statement that '9 Yang is inferior because it's not specialised', not the quality of 72 Shaolin art.

I'm sorry, but WHAT?

OK, let's try again....

druid purposely use 72 Shaolin arts as an example to show that not specialised doesn't mean inferior and specialised doesn't neccessary mean best

OK, I never got the impression that was what druid was trying to say. If he would have posted this simple sentence that you just said, then there would have been a lot less misunderstanding.

because u obviously think very highly of 72 Shaolin art and does not think 72 art inferior to the other specialised arts.

I can't say that the specialized 72 arts are as good as ALL other specialized arts, but in most cases they are close enough.

His statement doesn't mean he thinks 72 Shaolin art is inferior to the specialised art. He said 'based on your statement', mean he is arguing about your statement that '9 Yang is inferior because it's not specialised', not the quality of 72 Shaolin art.

In that case, he certainly has a funny way to deliver his argument. Here's how the argument process went.

I said: 9 Yang's qing gong cannot compare to a specialized qing gong art like Ling Bo Wei Bu. 9 Yang's palm stance cannot compare to a specialized palm style like 18 Dragon Palms. Shaolin has arts that specialize in the areas that those 2 arts do.

druid replied: From your example, it would be then be safe to say that Shaolin's palm arts cannot be compared to XL18Z, its finger skills cannot be compared to 6MSJ, its sword arts cannot be compared to DG9J?

Now, maybe it's just me, but I fail to understand how FROM MY EXAMPLE ABOVE it suggested that Shaolin's arts are inferior to XL18Z et al, especially considering my last sentence in that paragraph. druid just made a baseless assumption that was not based on my example, although he claims it's "FROM MY EXAMPLE" - which caused a lot of confusion.

Later, I asked for clarification: I am curious what is your assumption that "Shaolin's palm arts cannot be compared to XL18Z, its finger skills cannot be compared to 6MSJ, its sword arts cannot be compared to DG9J" based on?

To which druid replied: Its based on your statement that "9 Yang's qing gong cannot compare to a specialized qing gong art like Ling Bo Wei Bu. 9 Yang's palm stance cannot compare to a specialized palm style like 18 Dragon Palms."

As you mention in your above statement, XL18Z is a specialized palm style where even SM had praises for it. 6MSJ is being describled as one of the top skills in JY's universe. DG9J is designed (IMO) to counter alot of weapon based skill.

From the above post, I think it's pretty evident that druid simply has very low opinion of the 72 arts, and automatically assumed that they are inferior to the more popular XL18Z et al, without considering the information in the novel about how good they actually can be.

Otherwise, I fail to understand druid's thought process which led him to conclude from my statement above that Shaolin's specialized arts are inferior to XL18Z et al. Since you [KIDD] seem to be able to read his thoughts and convey them effortlessly, perhaps you can elaborate on how exactly he arrived in his conclusion.

You are no less stubborn than druid when it comes to arguing and standing by your opinion and also no more than druid in the willingness to accept new information.

What new information? Please point out exactly what new information druid provided to me during the past 200 posts.

I base my opinion on evidence from the novels or standard logic. I am convinced that I am not wrong in my opinion, and that is because I have not seen any evidence to contradict my opinion.

You 2 are just the same.

The difference is that I base on my opinion on evidence found in the novels, while druid comes to the discussion with preconceived opinions based on his liking.

There is another difference: When information in the novel is not laid out conveniently for me, I look for evidences to support my opinion; while druid simply refuses to accept any information not clearly stated.

I think all of us here has shown stubbornness when it comes to standing by our point. Yes, I notice druid has misunderstood yours and danshu's points a couple of times when presenting his argument, but u have done the same too when u argue for your point of view.

I hereby apologize if I have misunderstood any of druid's posts.

[druid]

Originally posted by PJ

The difference is that I base on my opinion on evidence found in the novels, while druid comes to the discussion with preconceived opinions based on his liking.

There is another difference: When information in the novel is not laid out conveniently for me, I look for evidences to support my opinion; while druid simply refuses to accept any information not clearly stated

Oh right, other then saying that the power of the Prana palms can be limitless when mastered; Murong Bo wanted to learn 72 arts; 14 of the arts are so tough to master in a lifetime; they are specialized arts etc. Is there any evidence left that shows 72 arts > 9yang? Lets settle this whole thing now.

From the above post, I think it's pretty evident that druid simply has very low opinion of the 72 arts, and automatically assumed that they are inferior to the more popular XL18Z et al, without considering the information in the novel about how good they actually can be.

And so did you for 9yang.

The difference is that I base on my opinion on evidence found in the novels, while druid comes to the discussion with preconceived opinions based on his liking.

Yea yea... ignore my part on the posting of the unqiueness of 9yang. Besides it was you were started that 72 arts are superior than 9yang.

There is another difference: When information in the novel is not laid out conveniently for me, I look for evidences to support my opinion; while druid simply refuses to accept any information not clearly stated

whoa! look for evidences to support your opinion? And i did not? In the end it all comes to your words again "Did you ever seen 9yang winning 72 arts?" Yea i refuse to listen bah bah bah... and you did listen to mine? Again it all boils down in saying that there is not much information on the 72 arts. Yes i see your point of view on that they are special and unqiue as listed above. But again, so does 9yang. Did you accept my information when i said that at its peak, the practicer of 9yang is able to withstand/take any hits from anyone? No you did not. You doubt. So, if you can doubt, why cant I?

Oh yea PJ.. when you say something like "Do you even think before posting such crap! and "Do you even bother using your head" tends to have people disagreeing with you for whatever every reason you might have.

You are most likely going to comment on this post of mine again. I dont care anymore. Go ahead and do so.

[IcyFox]

It would be well if a 3rd party mediator came in to help resolve your differences, PJ and Druid. I suggest our good Mod Ken.

It has become pretty senseless now because you have forgotten your original purpose and objective in engaging in this debate. I'd seriously advise both of you to withdraw and take some time off to cool it.

Don't worry too much about the debate. I think I'll take over from here - that is, if you trust me enough to let me handle the case - hopefully you can still understand what's going on when you come back.

[danshu_]

It would be well if a 3rd party mediator came in to help resolve your differences, PJ and Druid. I suggest our good Mod Ken.

It has become pretty senseless now because you have forgotten your original purpose and objective in engaging in this debate. I'd seriously advise both of you to withdraw and take some time off to cool it.

Don't worry too much about the debate. I think I'll take over from here - that is, if you trust me enough to let me handle the case - hopefully you can still understand what's going on when you come back.

OK icyfox, you pretend to be druid and ill be PJ

[IcyFox]

OK icyfox, you pretend to be druid and ill be PJ

It's actually a good idea. I mean it beats me having to pretend to be BOTH PJ and Druid.

[yittz]

Is the debate on whether 72arts' specialised stuff better than other specialised stuff (like XL18Z). I reckon 6MSJ is better than Shaolin 72arts finger techniques.

Oh 9Yang autoprotect appears to be more useful than shaolin diamond body.

9 Yang lightness doesn't appear to shabby either, with ZWJ being able to keep up with W1X.

Regarding XL18Z, Sweeper monk himself commented that it's good.

To Icy: quoting yourself is actually quite fun, just like referencing your previous publications when doing a research report.

[danshu_]

Is the debate on whether 72arts' specialised stuff better than other specialised stuff (like XL18Z). I reckon 6MSJ is better than Shaolin 72arts finger techniques.

Oddly enough, the debate is about whether ALL 72 arts taken as a whole are more powerful than 9 Yang.

To Icy: quoting yourself is actually quite fun, just like referencing your previous publications when doing a research report.

hehe, i've done that a few times on papers