Xiao Long Nu vs. Ling Wu Chong

[Wu Wudi]

When did I say XLN's attack was watchable?

You didn't but it's clear that XLN's enemies can still see and block her attacks while DFBB's foes are hit before they can do anything.

[Pacifian]

You didn't but it's clear that XLN's enemies can still see and block her attacks while DFBB's foes are hit before they can do anything.

Sigh... All my quotes were for nothing as I didn't put my message across.

1.对方出招实在太快，全然瞧不清她双剑的来势去路，如此对敌法定非败不可

2.尹克西跟着一转，仍想护住赵志敬，忽听背后哼的一声，一惊之下微微回头，但见赵志敬左肩袍袖已被剑锋划 去了 一片，鲜血涔涔而下。小龙女这一剑如何刺他，旁人仍然莫名其妙，剑法精妙迅疾到了这等地步，不但来去无踪，竟似乎还 能隔人伤敌。

3.便在这心念略转之间，眼前剑光幌动，小龙女已然出招。三人仍是瞧不清她的剑势，齐向后跃，退开丈余，不约而 同的舞动兵刃，护住周身要害。

1. They totally cannot see the direction of where her swords are heading.

2.They did not even notice her attacks. Not to even mention blocking it.

3. Once again, they cannot see her swords.

令狐冲手臂微感酸麻，但见红影闪处，似有一物向自己左目戳来。此刻既已不及挡架，又不及闪避，百忙中长剑颤动，也向东方不败的左目急刺，竟是两败俱伤的打法。

Cannot do anything?

[Wu Wudi]

Sigh... All my quotes were for nothing as I didn't put my message across.


1. They totally cannot see the direction of where her swords are heading.

2.They did not even notice her attacks. Not to even mention blocking it.

3. Once again, they cannot see her swords.

令狐冲手臂微感酸麻，但见红影闪处，似有一物向自己左目戳来。此刻既已不及挡架，又不及闪避，百忙中长剑颤动，也向东方不败的左目急刺，竟是两败俱伤的打法。

Cannot do anything?

You showed that a very low level fighter can not block her attack. I'm more impressed if you can show me an example of a high level fighter being hit before even realising what happened, like with DFBB.

[ChronoReverse]

You're comparing a person using two weapons with a technique that induces hypnosis to a person who moves so fast that even preemptive attacks fail. What kind of comparison is that? So maybe XLN moves her weapons faster than DFBB could move. That really isn't any stunning revelation except for that DFBB is actually fast enough to warrant a maybe.


XLN has fast weapon technique, but DFBB moves as fast as a weapon since he was using a 1 inch needle. It takes a huge gap in ability for a martial artist to be able to move faster than a weapon.


Furthermore, does it really matter where the swords go if you're dealing a straight up attack right at her? LHC likely can't move fast enough to be able to pull this off, but what if DFBB was using a sword and did that?



In any case, I mostly agree with what you're saying Pacifican except for the fact that defense was possible against XLN's assault as long as you ignore the technique (which you can't see because of the speed and hypnotic effects) and just concentrate on defense.

[K2Grey]

It does matter where the swords go if XLN can really execute stances so fast because then she could block the straight up attack and immediately counter.

How can you defend if you don't know where the sword moving at you is? IIRC the 3 bad fighters resorted to just spinning their weapons around?

[Whsie]

In any case, I mostly agree with what you're saying Pacifican except for the fact that defense was possible against XLN's assault as long as you ignore the technique (which you can't see because of the speed and hypnotic effects) and just concentrate on defense.

I disagree on the defense. XXZ and the other 2 had to form a triangle and slowly close in. When one of them was defeated, the defense COLLAPSED and chaos broke out. Seeing this, the defense only worked when they resorted to a closing wall defense formation. If it had been 1 of the Mongol warriors, then XLN can break through that piece of junk. And I personally don't think LHC has gotten to the level where he can defend (plus, this goes against DG9J's philosophy) against XLN's sword by himself.

[ChronoReverse]

Here's the thing. The wall prevent XLN from getting away. I don't see her being able to penetrate a tight defense of one person either. XLN isn't stupid, the Mongolian warriors were not attacking at all. If one person cannot fully defend, all XLN would have to do is focus her attack on one person. This would immediately allow her to break out since the Mongolian warriors were not using a mutual support type formation.

Furthermore, your example isn't an accurate description either since XLN only broke the formation using the tossing swords "technique". Here we see that her power increased enough to break through the defense of one and thus the entire formation.


The only reason tightly defending works is because of two factors. The first is that XLN's internal energy was really low. The second is because of the significantly smaller area to cover. It was shown that it wasn't even possible to protect the person behind you.

[Whsie]

The thing is, is that if XLN was to fight LHC in open field of 50-100 feet in diameter with enough room to manuever, then LHC IMO is screwed. It's very apparent that XLN can use sword techniques from long range. And LHC can't compete in his strength because XLN would be using her tomb sect leviation skill all around.

[ChronoReverse]

Wait. No she can't. She can move super fast into strike, and she can use the sword tossing trick from long range, but she certainly cannot launch LDAs. Her internal energy is far too weak for that.

[Whsie]

Wait. No she can't. She can move super fast into strike, and she can use the sword tossing trick from long range, but she certainly cannot launch LDAs. Her internal energy is far too weak for that.

Not LDA, but flying swords. Flying swords are fast enough to give LHC trouble. Even if she wanted to use Jade Maiden, she could still attack from 10-15 feet (her distance with JLFW was 10-15 feet) which is safe enough.

[ChronoReverse]

Yeah... XLN is going to be carrying around 20 swords with her all the time eh? And as long as she's not using Jade Maiden (which is what the tossing swords is not), LHC's projectile-breaking stance will have zero trouble at all (especially since his internal is definitely higher than XLN's).

Incidentally, LHC, with no internal energy at all during that time, was able to blind 30 eyes with individual stabs in a second. Doesn't seem like he's a sloth by any measure. It's typical DG9J bullsh*t of course, but nonetheless that's what he did.

[Whsie]

Yeah... XLN is going to be carrying around 20 swords with her all the time eh? And as long as she's not using Jade Maiden (which is what the tossing swords is not), LHC's projectile-breaking stance will have zero trouble at all (especially since his internal is definitely higher than XLN's).

Incidentally, LHC, with no internal energy at all during that time, was able to blind 30 eyes with individual stabs in a second. Doesn't seem like he's a sloth by any measure. It's typical DG9J bullsh*t of course, but nonetheless that's what he did.

I don't know, but I personally feel that 10 feet is safe enough for XLN. And I'm not very convinced that LHC can surpass XLN's sword speed.

LHC with no internal did it, but from what I see, LHC used every last bit of energy from that stance because he collapsed after that.

[ChronoReverse]

He didn't collapse because he used up all his energy. At that point the energy streams in his body acted up again =/

[Whsie]

He didn't collapse because he used up all his energy. At that point the energy streams in his body acted up again =/

perfect timing eh?

[ChronoReverse]

Apparently the exertion disturbed the delicate balance. LHC wasn't so much without internal energy but that if he exerted any, it throws the whole balance out of kilter and LHC ends up lying on the ground writhing in pain.

Obviously 30 stabs in a split second requires quite an exertion.


Still, it's reasonable to assume a powered up LHC using a straight stab forward with all his might should lend to a single attack of which the speed is matched by little in wulin. Somehow DFBB can move his body twice as fast as that.

[Wu Xing]

Anyone here practice martial arts with two swords? Are there any weaknessess in a dual-wield technique?

As far as I know, the double-sword (jian) style is not practical because the jian technique doesn't favor two-sword style (2 swords with the same length). But one jian can be used with two-hand (i.e., switching between 2 hands) to create an advantage through a proper strategy. I saw a few double-sword forms before (one is performed by a famous Chen-style Taiji master). From what I saw, the technique look more like a double-sabre (or sabre) technique than jian technique. Also, to me, it doesn't look safe to use (since jain is double-edge but dao has single-edge)...if I want to use such technique, I will probably go with double-sabre (see below). Again, this is what I know which may not be totally correct.

If you look at rapier, as far as I know, they don't use 2 rapiers as well (or at least it is not a favorite combination if they have other choices). However, in rapier, they can use rapier with short sword (dagger? - not sure about the correct word) or cloth (which is also 'short'). For Japanese two-sword style (like Miyamoto Musashi's Niten Ichi-ryu), it is also one short-sword (wakizashi) and one long-sword (katana), I believe. If I understand correctly, the short-sword (in both rapier and Niten Ryu) is more defense than offense. I also believe that Chinese sword can also be used in the same way with short sword like rapier but it will not allow the technique with one jian used with both hands.

However, there are a class of double weapons in which both weapons are the same. This class of weapon includes double sabre (Chinese, Thai, Philippine?, etc.), double stick (Chinese, Thai, Philippine, Japanese?, etc.). From what I see, the double stick and double sabre are quite similar while the double-stick is more flexible in term of technique (probably because of no sharp edge).

Chinese double-sabre (dao) is very practical, fast, powerful and dangerous. Any weakness? Well, I believe that every weapon has its own weakness. However, in general, it seems to me that double-sabre is much more dangerous than single-sabre, somehow. Nevertheless, my martial art master taught me how to deal with double-sabre (in fact, any double-weapon technique). Basically, the weakness of double-weapon is about it is more difficult to control and manipulate which requires a greater body/weapon coordination. Also, to use double weapon, it is likely that, in every move (or most of the moves), one weapon is the lead (initiate/opening) and another weapon is the follower (finishing/closing). So, if the lead weapon is controlled, the double weapon technique is hard to execute. Again, it is about the user's skill now (which is also true for every weapon).

Note that Japanese sword, in my opinion, inherit both jian and dao characteristics.

To conclude my opinion, I think the double-sword is less practical in the real combat (while single-sword/jian could be very powerful). Therefore, XLN performance is more fictional/fantasy than real. However, based on the description in the novel (which is not real), XLN technique has no weakness since she has full control on her 2 swords. Nevertheless, I believe that ZWJ and ZSF can break XLN's double-sword style. I probably want to refer to your guys to ZWJ's fighting with 4 persons (2 swords, 2 sabres) at the bright-peak.

Just my 2 cents.

[Pacifian]

You showed that a very low level fighter can not block her attack. I'm more impressed if you can show me an example of a high level fighter being hit before even realising what happened, like with DFBB.

Ermm.. Do you put RYY as a fighter whose skills are above Xiaoxiangzi etc?

If so, I have nothing to say, but RYY did notice DFBB advancing towards her, but she was unsure whether she was able to dodge in time.

Take people like Xiaoxiangzi etc, and they did not even see many of her strokes. All they did was to keep defending ensuring that every of her strokes cannot get touch them.

[Wu Wudi]

Ermm.. Do you put RYY as a fighter whose skills are above Xiaoxiangzi etc?

If so, I have nothing to say, but RYY did notice DFBB advancing towards her, but she was unsure whether she was able to dodge in time.

Take people like Xiaoxiangzi etc, and they did not even see many of her strokes. All they did was to keep defending ensuring that every of her strokes cannot get touch them.

Yeah, I would consider RYY to be better than Xiaoxingzi. XXZ was just a minor, typical fairly high level fighter whose job is just to portray the hero in a positive light. RYY is more talented that that. However, I would consider Gongshun Zhi to be a higher level than RYY and XLN dominated GSZ. The only problem is that Gongshun Zhi already lost much of his power when his wife tricked him into drinking blood, and was far from the fighter that beat YG/XLN.

[Pacifian]

Yeah, I would consider RYY to be better than Xiaoxingzi. XXZ was just a minor, typical fairly high level fighter whose job is just to portray the hero in a positive light. RYY is more talented that that. However, I would consider Gongshun Zhi to be a higher level than RYY and XLN dominated GSZ. The only problem is that Gongshun Zhi already lost much of his power when his wife tricked him into drinking blood, and was far from the fighter that beat YG/XLN.

Forget it. Until we finally get to agree on just one thing, all these discusssion is pointless. It is tiring to keep on producing quotes and elaboration on every character you know

Anyway, note that the blood drinking part only removed his immunity towards acupoint hitting, not his overall martial arts power. And XLN did not use this to her advantage, she gave him trouble by purely using that skill.

[Pacifian]

XLN has fast weapon technique, but DFBB moves as fast as a weapon since he was using a 1 inch needle. It takes a huge gap in ability for a martial artist to be able to move faster than a weapon.

Sure it does. But we are not comparing his ability and martial arts prowess with XLN. No doubt XLN will lose to him/her when it comes to moving fast. I did not say DFBB isn't impressive.

Furthermore, does it really matter where the swords go if you're dealing a straight up attack right at her? LHC likely can't move fast enough to be able to pull this off, but what if DFBB was using a sword and did that?

Yes it does.

The point is DFBB has to move towards your back in order to do this. Techniques-wise, he is incapable of producing such a move, where the swords' direction was contradicting the user's location.

If not for the three Mongolian warriors surrounding her, she could easily pull off a trick like launching a sword towards the back of one warrior even when she is fighting in front of them, but with all three warriors blocking any possible path of her sword going pass them, she has to tackle them head on.