Zhang WuJi vs Golden Wheel Monk: a battle of chokemeisters

[yittz]

The whips will have to do everything it can to avoid HIS.

How sharps are the wheels? Are the whips metal or leather?

[Whsie]

Dont really agree with you... If YG is using the HIS, then he would find it difficult to use his sad palms at the same time. Also, he has to content with 3 pairs of arms (assuming that the monks are not using their wips). Also, to be able to use his sad palms, he has to be sad... so it is really debatable whether anot YG would win with no problem. Another point to add, i dont really think YG has any experience in fighting formations? Anyone can confirm this?

I'm sorry for all those YG fans out there, but I think YG would do the worse out of any of the age 60- Greats. That one arm really does affect this battle because it will be 3 sets of hands attacking him. Even in Depressed mode, I'm a bit suspicious. However in Regular mode, I don't see YG winning. The YG that we rate so high is the Depressed one. The regular one may be slightly weaker than JLFW.

[Dirt]

I think that's why swordsmanship became so important for YG. With a sword, he's the equal of anyone.

[Whsie]

I think that's why swordsmanship became so important for YG. With a sword, he's the equal of anyone.

At Heavy Iron, YG can't beat GJ or a Great (Ken mentioned why QQR got defeated). If it's Wood level, then I'm convinced that YG can win, but we all know that he is only half way there.

[Dirt]

At Heavy Iron, YG can't beat GJ or a Great (Ken mentioned why QQR got defeated). If it's Wood level, then I'm convinced that YG can win, but we all know that he is only half way there.

Yang Guo's palm was his wooden sword. The wooden sword, the sword itself is merely a crutch.

If we are to believe that Dugu Qiubai is Miyamoto Musashi, then the only reason he moved to a wooden sword is because he no longer wished to kill or maim his opponent when fighting. The only difference between the Heavy Iron Sword and a Wooden Sword is weight. Otherwise, neither has a sharp end which is the sword's major advantage.

[Whsie]

Yang Guo's palm was his wooden sword. The wooden sword, the sword itself is merely a crutch.

Well...., it's still being said that YG has surpassed the Heavy Iron, but haven't broken past the wood stage. If he did trully get to the wood stage, not only would the power increase from before, but the his sword wouldn't break (and his broke TWICE against JLFW).

[Whsie]

The power should also increase. The sword shouldn't break, and the power DOES increase. YG with Heavy Iron can fair pretty well with the Condor. When he reached the "half" wood stage, JY said that the Condor couldn't even take 3 stances.

[LiarLiar]

At Heavy Iron, YG can't beat GJ or a Great (Ken mentioned why QQR got defeated). If it's Wood level, then I'm convinced that YG can win, but we all know that he is only half way there.

I don't believe in this statement. In the battle with QQR, YG was actually gaining an advantage before the snow blowed into QQR's eye. If the translation of ROCH is not wrong, YG was gaining an advantage on QQR because the Heavy Sword was better than QQR's palm. That is what I read in the translation, so I could be wrong. This is one reason why I always thought highly of Dugu. If YG, after training the Heavy Sword for only months, can battle QQR and gain an advantage, think of how good Dugu is with the Heavy Sword after ten years of training with it, and that is not even his highest stage of swordmanship. This is one reason why I believe Dugu is better than the Greats.

[Dirt]

According to wikipedia (take with a grain of salt):

"Musashi created and perfected a two-sword kenjutsu technique called niten'ichi (二天一, "two heavens as one") or nitōichi (二刀一, "two swords as one") or "Ni-Ten Ichi Ryu" (A Kongen Buddhist Sutra refers to the two heavens as the two guardians of Buddha). In this technique, the swordsman uses both a Heavy Sword, and a "Companion Sword" at the same time, such as a Katana and Wakizashi."

Both are equal and necessary (heavy sword and lighter sword like a wooden sword). I think Dugu Qiubai's sword progression has more to do with his enlightenment as he grew older than actual sword skills. As he grew older, he found less need to kill. As a swordsman, I think Yang Guo was more than a match for Dugu Qiubai but his enlightenment was far, far behind.

[Dirt]

I don't believe in this statement. In the battle with QQR, YG was actually gaining an advantage before the snow blowed into QQR's eye. If the translation of ROCH is not wrong, YG was gaining an advantage on QQR because the Heavy Sword was better than QQR's palm. That is what I read in the translation, so I could be wrong. This is one reason why I always thought highly of Dugu. If YG, after training the Heavy Sword for only months, can battle QQR and gain an advantage, think of how good Dugu is with the Heavy Sword after ten years of training with it, and that is not even his highest stage of swordmanship. This is one reason why I believe Dugu is better than the Greats.

Without the snake gall bladders to boost his inner power, Yang Guo would not have reached such a high level in the Heavy Iron Sword so soon, he would have had to trained for a great many years more to be at the level he was when he fought Qiu Qianren. Everyone seems to forget that one bit.

[Whsie]

I don't believe in this statement. In the battle with QQR, YG was actually gaining an advantage before the snow blowed into QQR's eye. If the translation of ROCH is not wrong, YG was gaining an advantage on QQR because the Heavy Sword was better than QQR's palm. That is what I read in the translation, so I could be wrong. This is one reason why I always thought highly of Dugu. If YG, after training the Heavy Sword for only months, can battle QQR and gain an advantage, think of how good Dugu is with the Heavy Sword after ten years of training with it, and that is not even his highest stage of swordmanship. This is one reason why I believe Dugu is better than the Greats.

I think it no longer matters of "how long" you train. It's "how long" it takes for you to reach the next level. As we all know, YG trained Heavy Iron in less than a month; however, JY said that even if Dugu Qiubai were to revive and personally teach, this is how much YG could learn.

It certainly didn't say that Heavy Iron was superior to Metal Palm. And, it said that the true reason why QQR lost was because of endurance. YG was 20 years old. QQR was already above 70. It said that as QQR fought on, he slowly weakened due to old age.

[Whsie]

YG at "half" wood level is weaker than JLFW. He was loosing. If it is as someone said earlier that the palm is the sword(which I doubt), then the TRUE POWER is when YG is in his Regular mode(which is weaker than JLFW). The Depressed mode only enhanced that power.

About the palm being the sword, I don't think that is correct. The power given out comes from the energy that the sword would give out. Therefore Demonic is the basis of Melancholic Sad Palm.

[LiarLiar]

I think it no longer matters of "how long" you train. It's "how long" it takes for you to reach the next level. As we all know, YG trained Heavy Iron in less than a month; however, JY said that even if Dugu Qiubai were to revive and personally teach, this is how much YG could learn.

It certainly didn't say that Heavy Iron was superior to Metal Palm. And, it said that the true reason why QQR lost was because of endurance. YG was 20 years old. QQR was already above 70. It said that as QQR fought on, he slowly weakened due to old age.

Sorry, reread the parts I was wrong. YG was only equal to QQR at this point, but it is still impressive for a 20 years old YG is equal to a great-like fighter like QQR.

[LiarLiar]

YG at "half" wood level is weaker than JLFW. He was loosing. If it is as someone said earlier that the palm is the sword(which I doubt), then the TRUE POWER is when YG is in his Regular mode(which is weaker than JLFW). The Depressed mode only enhanced that power.

About the palm being the sword, I don't think that is correct. The power given out comes from the energy that the sword would give out. Therefore Demonic is the basis of Melancholic Sad Palm.

You do realized YG was only losing because JLFW was cheating by pretending to strike GS, right.

[danshu_]

According to wikipedia (take with a grain of salt):

"Musashi created and perfected a two-sword kenjutsu technique called niten'ichi (二天一, "two heavens as one") or nitōichi (二刀一, "two swords as one") or "Ni-Ten Ichi Ryu" (A Kongen Buddhist Sutra refers to the two heavens as the two guardians of Buddha). In this technique, the swordsman uses both a Heavy Sword, and a "Companion Sword" at the same time, such as a Katana and Wakizashi."

Both are equal and necessary (heavy sword and lighter sword like a wooden sword). I think Dugu Qiubai's sword progression has more to do with his enlightenment as he grew older than actual sword skills. As he grew older, he found less need to kill. As a swordsman, I think Yang Guo was more than a match for Dugu Qiubai but his enlightenment was far, far behind.

mmm, musashi doesnt use a "heavy sword", his style is just katana in one hand, wakizashi in the other.

it would be the same as holding chang jian in one hand, and duan jian in the other

[Laviathan]

YG at "half" wood level is weaker than JLFW. He was loosing. If it is as someone said earlier that the palm is the sword(which I doubt), then the TRUE POWER is when YG is in his Regular mode(which is weaker than JLFW). The Depressed mode only enhanced that power.

About the palm being the sword, I don't think that is correct. The power given out comes from the energy that the sword would give out. Therefore Demonic is the basis of Melancholic Sad Palm.

Please read the novel again... Like I have stated numerous times in the past already, Yang Guo was NOT losing. In his "regular" mode, Yang Guo was gaining the UPPERHAND in his fight against Golden Wheel Monk. He would have won eventually if it wasn't for Golden Wheel Monk using Guo Xiang as bait.

[Whsie]

really? I just reread it earlier today....
My bad. However, the difference in power is still tremendous. JLFW got destroyed by YG when YG was able to be in "depressed" mode. When he was in regular mode, YG might win if the match would go on for another 100 stances (200 stances already passed).

[yittz]

Back to topic?

Is ZWJ using a weapon or are we talking about barehanded ZWJ?

ZWJ with fire tablets or heavensword/dragonsabre (or any weapon to match the edge of the wheels) have nothing to fear from JLFW.

[K2Grey]

If JLFW tries to use the 5 Wheels Encirclement I think ZWJ could QKDNY them all into each other. In general JLFW, is powerful, but his techniques aren't that good; ZWJ is at least as powerful as JLFW is; I say QKDNY will work wonders against him.

[The_One]

Back to topic?

Is ZWJ using a weapon or are we talking about barehanded ZWJ?

ZWJ with fire tablets or heavensword/dragonsabre (or any weapon to match the edge of the wheels) have nothing to fear from JLFW.

Tai Chi Sword or Fist from Cheung Mo Gei. How can GWM beat either of that.