This new MNC is pretty common in looks.
Overall, a different approach from LOCH03. The GJ young days were totally skipped and much "flashbacks" were used. The new MCF is really yucky. She looks like end stage of a HIV patient.
An explanation was given as to why the Taoist priest did not take YK and his mother away from the Qin prince. He lost a fight against the prince. Pretty hard to believe that he could lose this fight
Oh and some more criticism. CGI in China sucks. It shouldn't have relied so much on CGI.
I call it the 'Harry Potter' phenomenon. It seems quite contraindicating -involving a story that is vastly entertaining/enjoyable yet realistically of low quality. If one has read Eddings, Feist (Magician -warrants re-reads! so fab!), and T. H. White's 'Sword in the Stone', reading Harry Potter is positively frightful in comparisan. I understand it was written for a different age group, but as JKR progresses to the more 'mature' books in the series...um...lets just say she should've stayed with writing for younger audiences.
Yet the success of the 'Harry Potter' series I find is similar to Jin Yong fame, in that both are able to elicit that innate fascination in all of us (regardless of culture, religion, nationality) of themes such as magic, heroism, etc. When such a rapport with the content is achieved, I believe we sort of side-step the little detail of proper writing. A bit like the concept of 'blind love' I suppose - total acceptance despite the faults.
Of course, in no way am I saying that either Jin Yong's works or Harry Potter itself (well the initial books anyway) are of 'low quality'. Far from it. Just trying to illustrate something that isn't of Nobel Prize quality can still be very entertaining.
That's a reflection of bad writing then. The best reading is supposed to be easily read by the lay person (even if is a thesis of any sort) - I always get told off by using 'big words'. But, being 'short and succinct' is a skill in itself.Originally Posted by sniffles
The problem with lit-reviews in English for Jin Yong's works is the 'lost in translation' catch. I've just been reading a discussion from a Chinese Medical text about the near 'impossibility' to faithfully convey the meaning(s) from written Chinese to English. Simply because the two cultures think so differently (i.e. becoming vs being). I taught myself to read Chinese just to read Jin Yong's novels, because I knew English translations would only skim the surface of the meanings inherent in the diaglogue and poems.
Wow! That's a lot of 'manys'. Care to elaborate on your comment?Originally Posted by sarakoth
Last edited by NuDaFu; 08-10-08 at 10:58 PM.
Firstly, Wanyan Honglie should not be able to defeat QCJ.
Secondly, Ouyang Ke should not be able to easily defeat the other Jin mercenaries.
Thirdly, the series doesn't portray GJ's advancement very well. He should not be able to take on MCF in a real fight and relied on her blindness to attack her from long range in the novel. Also, in the very beginning, he was pretty crappy and should not be able to hold his own against the likes of the Jin mercenaries. In the novel, he should get poont in about three moves.
Fourthly, it was stated that the combined force of Ma Yu and the Six Freaks was unable to match MCF. However, in the novel, the Six Freaks were able to match MCF at Lu Manor.
Fifthly, I believe HR's ability throughout the series is a bit exaggerated, both before and after 9Yin+Dog Beating Stick. In ROCH, she's only a tad bit better than LMC, putting her in the range of the Quanzhen Elders. But in the series, she can accomplish feats like easily dispatching all of the Jin mercenaries.
Sixthly, I could probably come on with more if it wasn't so late. Maybe I'll try tomorrow.
As I've stated before, it's starkly obvious LOCH08' is not a version one would watch for the appreciation of the martial arts. No less if or if not the martial arts are faithful to that described in the novel.Originally Posted by sarakoth
LOCH08' is a relationship based perspective of LOCH. It does a good job of that IMO.
However, if a version were to give a fair go at the martial side of things, even with changes, I could appreciate it. With regard to combats, I think its fair to appreciate the dynamics/choegraphy of the combat itself rather than treating LOCH as gospel. Combat - even if it is a performance - involves an element of breath/life (if portrayed well enough)...it can display an essence of combat that writing can never do. Although honestly, I don't think Jin Yong writes descriptive combat all that well...at least not the 'heart-beating-in-your-ears' type combat.
Have just been comparing the Hu Ge/Ariel Lin pairing in TWFX and LOCH08'. So hard to decide, but I'm currently leaning towards TWFX (so cute and touching).
I'd really like to take whoever was the martial arts choegrapher to a martial arts open tournament or even lat least watch something like Ong Bak or a Jet Li movie. Some of the sloppiness of the combats are just so appalling. I know someone like Fan Bing Bing is far from a martial artist, but the way the uber smart choegrapher in Ping Zhong Xia Ying arranged it, she was so cool when she fought. I suppose it has to do with the director too.
I agree with that - Jinyong's works are entertaining (as are JK Rowling's). To be honest, I'm not really complaining that JY isn't "Nobel Prize quality", but rather that he may not deserve the sort of high-flown academic eulogies you'll find in the Huss & Liu essay collection. JY deserves praise, but not that sort of praise!Originally Posted by NuDaFu
Comparing JY and Rowling is very apt. I'd throw George Lucas into the comparison, too. All three have similar strengths: they're great visionaries and world-builders, who invent memorable characters and create iconic moments. These are the sorts of things which appeal to those of us with escapist tendencies. But JY & Lucas also have similar weaknesses: they execute clumsily and their judgment is poor. Fortunately, these are the sorts of things which are easily overlooked in the rush of escapism.
Speaking as a (minor) member of spcnet's She Diao translation team, I respectfully disagree. Information loss in translation is inevitable, but I think it's not so bad with JY, as he's not a linguistically intensive writer (i.e. he writes in fairly simple vernacular) and the forms he uses have Western influences. I'd argue that what you said applies more to poetry, classical prose (e.g. the Laozi), and fiction which experiments with language (e.g. Lu Xun).Originally Posted by NuDaFu
Anyway, back on topic. I'd call this adaptation 'Jinyong for the Videogame Generation' or 'Jinyong-lite' - cartoony, poppy, loud, fast-paced, and aimed squarely at younger viewers.
I think it's pretty clear that the adaptation was never intended to be a faithful one, so criticising it for 'inaccuracy' is a bit beside the point. However, I would say that the series' relationship with She Diao is only really beneficial in a commercial sense. In terms of making good TV, it's a hindrance.
More specifically, I feel the series is a disappointing showing from Li Guoli (of Xian Jian and TWFX fame) and his team. It's a bit high on cliche and a bit low on subtlety and texture, and Li seems to have forgotten how to make something moving without also making it either sentimental or overblown (and sometimes both at the same time). Kathy Chow looks great as Bao Xiruo, but - like Kong Wei (Mei Chaofeng) - is excruciatingly melodramatic. Ariel Lin's considerable acting skills are completely obscured by the overdubbing and the heavy-handed directing. And Guo Jing is actually a problem. Things visibly sag when he's on screen. That's not really Hu Ge's fault, but rather because without the powerfully symbolic context of the original novel, GJ is no longer the iconic 'Captain China' but rather just some boringly earnest guy.
Personally, I think the best thing about the adaptation is Li Jie as Ouyang Ke. And that's pretty telling.
I didn't mean to 'debunk' (Scully "debunk the X-files"...love that word ever since heard Scully said it ) good pieces of translation. I've read spcnet's ROCH translation (not LOCH...don't know if the same translation team did it)...I think its great. It's with the very language itself. A single character alone may represent so many concepts/ideas in different contexts. As 'simple' as Jin Yong's way of writing is, the way the Chinese written word can create a scene, meaning, or feeling vastly differs from how the English written word can do it.Speaking as a (minor) member of spcnet's She Diao translation team, I respectfully disagree. Information loss in translation is inevitable, but I think it's not so bad with JY, as he's not a linguistically intensive writer (i.e. he writes in fairly simple vernacular) and the forms he uses have Western influences. I'd argue that what you said applies more to poetry, classical prose (e.g. the Laozi), and fiction which experiments with language (e.g. Lu Xun).
"Our Western languages are substance-orientated and are therefore most relevant to the descriptions of a world defined by discreteness, objectivity and permanence. Such languages are ill disposed to discribe and interpret a world, such as that of the Chinese, that is primarily characterized by continuity, process and becoming"...Ames (Focusing the Familiar).
My aims is not to hang a 'negative cloud' over translation from Chinese to English. Heck, I've done some translating myself, albeit in a very unorthodox way . Just that there is a distinctly different 'flavour' in reading something that is in Chinese compared to English.
As in his acting, physical appearance, or the changes to his character? I thought he was great, as long as he didn't perform any martial arts.Personally, I think the best thing about the adaptation is Li Jie as Ouyang Ke.
Ah, I see what you mean. Very interesting quote! The experience of reading in Chinese is definitely impossible to replicate through an English translation, and surely vice versa. It's more or less the same for any pair of languages, but English and Chinese are particularly distant. As long as the literary critic can read the original texts - which every serious literary critic would do - this shouldn't be a hindrance to good analysis. When it comes to Jinyong, though, I feel decent analysis is possible even based on translations, as what is essential about his works generally (although not entirely) doesn't manifest itself in units of meaning small enough to make language an issue. (For the likes of the Laozi and, say, James Joyce, this doesn't apply.) It's why JY's work can make the transition to TV intact...although not in this adaptation.Originally Posted by NuDaFu
I think he put in a good performance - rarely overacting (the easiest mistake to make in these sorts of series) and also seeming to rise above the cliches. At the beginning, he was so terrifically slimy you could practically hear the slithering sound whenever he appeared onscreen. Yuan Hong (as Yang Kang) was promising as well, although less lucky with the directing and the scriptwriting. Both of them rather stole the show from the anonymous Hu Ge and the underused Ariel.Originally Posted by NuDaFu
In most of the romantic scenes in LOCH, there is a song that is always sung. Could anyone tell me what the name of the song is please?
as for me, HR was definitely who stole the show
Hey, that's what I thought of Li Jie too as OYK! Perfectly Slytherin he was. I loved how the lazy pace he kept with his mannerisms and speech (hoping no one dubbed his voice) contrasted with the calculating wickedness he was able to express with his eyes. I didn't like his relationship with MNC though, I thought they could've developed his character without romantic attachments.I think he put in a good performance - rarely overacting (the easiest mistake to make in these sorts of series) and also seeming to rise above the cliches. At the beginning, he was so terrifically slimy you could practically hear the slithering sound whenever he appeared onscreen. Yuan Hong (as Yang Kang) was promising as well, although less lucky with the directing and the scriptwriting. Both of them rather stole the show from the anonymous Hu Ge and the underused Ariel.
I actually thought Yuan Hong over-acted a bit. He didn't really impress as YK.
As much as I love Ariel as an actress, I also thought she didn't have much 'elbow room' in this drama. Especially sad considering the study efforts she made for it. She's like what Natalie Portman was in Star Wars.
A song that was way too high pitched for the purposes of the the scenes, almost to distraction.It called Wo Zhi Neng Ai Ni by Peng Qing
I am addicted to the opening song by Ronald Cheng but cannot seem to find the full version. Does anyone know where I might grab it? Thanks!!!
I watched the first episode and about half of the second last night.
Things I liked so far:
The fights between Qiu Chuji and the Jiangnan 7 Freaks at the wine shop and the temple - very well choreographed, visceral and exciting. I watched some of LOCH '83 recently and it was laughable that QCJ threw an ordinary copper teakettle at the 7 Freaks in the wine shop. Even though the bronze cauldron was sometimes digitized in the new version, at least this time it was big enough, and I enjoyed how they showed the stairs breaking and everything shaking when QCJ carried it. The big bell at the temple was good, too. Maybe it was a little bit over the top to have Ke Zhen E be impaled on QCJ's sword at the temple, but overall I was happy with that fight.
Things I didn't like:
The whole story of Mei Chaofeng as a flashback. It's not a good idea dramatically to introduce an important character in a flashback. I expect some audience members who don't know the story probably will say "Who is that?" when she reappears later on.
The digital effects on the eagles were disappointing. They're no better than five years ago in LOCH '03. I expect a higher quality these days, even in a tv show.