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Thread: Legend of the Condor Heroes 2006 (Ariel Lin, Hu Ge)

  1. #1561
    Junior Member Methoros's Avatar
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    Do u knw there will be a new series She Diao Ying Xiong Zhuan coming up?
    Its still filming though, maybe next year then will become avaliable.

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    Senior Member ChineseChik525's Avatar
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    how does yk really die in the book?


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    Senior Member Guo Xiang ( :'s Avatar
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    Default How Yang Kang died in the novel

    Quote Originally Posted by ChineseChik525 View Post
    how does yk really die in the book?
    It's really complecated but I'll try to explain it.

    1.Yang Kang teams up with Ouyang Feng but unknown to Ouyang Feng Yang Kang killed his son Ouyang Ke.

    2.Huang Rong is about to expose this secret to Ouyang Feng.

    3.Yang Kang trys to kill her but winds up hitting her shoulder but she has
    the Hedgehog vest on.

    4. Yang Kang hit her exactly where one of Guo Jing's masters did when he was poisoned.

    5. The poisoned blood from Guo Jing's master which is on the vest gets into the cut that Yang Kang got from the hedgehog vest.

    6. Yang Kang gets poisoned.

    7. Yang Kang dies.

    Hope this answer isn't too jumbled and conufusing. I tried my best.
    "I'd call you a genius... but I'm in the room."
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  4. #1564
    Senior Member sarakoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methoros View Post
    Do u knw there will be a new series She Diao Ying Xiong Zhuan coming up?
    Its still filming though, maybe next year then will become avaliable.
    I can swear that that's not true.

  5. #1565
    Senior Member sniffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methoros View Post
    Do u knw there will be a new series She Diao Ying Xiong Zhuan coming up?
    Its still filming though, maybe next year then will become avaliable.
    Well, since this thread is actually about the 2008 series, not 2006 as it says in the thread title, that seems unlikely. Not impossible, but unlikely.
    你看这些云彩,聚了又散,散了又聚,人生离合也是一样。

  6. #1566
    Senior Member S Beaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guo Xiang ( : View Post
    It's really complecated but I'll try to explain it.

    1.Yang Kang teams up with Ouyang Feng but unknown to Ouyang Feng Yang Kang killed his son Ouyang Ke.

    2.Huang Rong is about to expose this secret to Ouyang Feng.

    3.Yang Kang trys to kill her but winds up hitting her shoulder but she has
    the Hedgehog vest on.

    4. Yang Kang hit her exactly where one of Guo Jing's masters did when he was poisoned.

    5. The poisoned blood from Guo Jing's master which is on the vest gets into the cut that Yang Kang got from the hedgehog vest.

    6. Yang Kang gets poisoned.

    7. Yang Kang dies.

    Hope this answer isn't too jumbled and conufusing. I tried my best.
    add to that, the poison from Guo Jing's master originated from Ouyang Feng.
    Watch out! Dihydrogen Monoxide will kill us all!

  7. #1567
    Senior Member Guo Xiang ( :'s Avatar
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    Oh yeah forgot to say that.
    In a sense Ouyang Feng got revenge for his son.
    Last edited by Guo Xiang ( :; 09-03-08 at 04:20 PM.
    "I'd call you a genius... but I'm in the room."
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    Default Opinion - LOCH08 (with spoilers)

    Couldn’t resist joining the forum after reading the pretty incisive comments from posters like NuDaFu, owbjhx and Diet Jinyong. Everyone makes very valid points. I’ve just finished watching the entire 2008 series and overall, my feelings are mixed. But when matched up against the benchmark of the bits and scraps of 1983 and 2003 that I’ve seen, I would say that LOCH08 has its moments, though not as many as some had hoped. I thought that LOCH08 was pure but bounded entertainment, very much in line with the objective of its producer/director, and was the antithesis of the transcendental vision that LOCH2003’s makers had in mind.

    Likes (solely my own opinion)

    Execution. I feel that Li Guoli and company stuck to their guns in making a “Jin Yong-lite” (thanks, Diet). That takes some courage when the source material is too well-known and worshipped as canonical law. They were openly inviting criticism but I admired the consistent attempts throughout the series at making it fast-paced, character-driven, practical and modern; essentially, the series was deliberately manufactured as mainstream bite size pieces that the younger generation’s attention span could swallow, and I do mean it as a compliment. The sacrifices made in faithfulness to source material seemed carefully pre-meditated as well. Comparing it to LOCH03, and though I don’t fully agree with all of the choices, I couldn’t help but admire the punchy timing, the determined editing or the kamikaze-like jettisoning of well-loved classic key scenes that were difficult to dramatize. Some of the more notable were the “deserted island” arc and the 4 challenges of Yideng’s disciples. For example, in LOCH03, I found GJ and HR’s exchanges about childbearing and the “tainted mutton” rather awkward and the 4 Yideng challenges anticlimactic. These were some of my favorite passages in the book and I was sorely disappointed; eventually, I attributed it to the languid editing and the difficulty in literally transporting the written word’s timing for such comical or emotionally poignant scenes. So, when Li Guoli decided to do away with these classics altogether, I found that I wasn’t really upset after a while. There was that commendable adherence to his “lite” ideas that I found refreshing, while the 2003 version made those particular scenes frustrating to watch by ironically being phrase perfect to the book (I have the same problem with The Royal Tramp 2008). By being grandiose in vision and falling short in execution and urgency, the 2003 version lost its common appeal – you almost have to believe that the book can do no wrong before you can really like the series (and the actors as well). The 2008 version stands on its own in relativity to the broadest segment - that less vocal, entertainment oriented casual audience - while targeting the younger fans of the novel at the same time. This belief will of course have to be proven by the viewer ratings.

    There was consistent effort at character development of the minor figures as well and in my opinion, that took diligence. I have always felt that Jin Yong caricaturized all his minor characters, which is a shame. This is a very controversial subject and every fan has an opinion. Though undeserving of the airtime given to them, I found it noteworthy that the writers gave the minors a lot of thought. Unfortunately, their main effort backfired with the resulting YK coming across as a stupendous mess of contradictions (such a waste because Yuan Hong’s Yeluxie in Yang Warriors exuded such delicious sex appeal that I desperately wanted him to be great in LOCH). I could just see Yuan Hong on the set feeling confused about the role’s motivation which flipped in almost every other scene. I also found myself holding my breath through tens of episodes hoping the writers wouldn’t lose the thin thread of YK wanting to give Wan Yan Honglie the eye-for-an-eye treatment (as in, I’ll make you love me before I stab you to death). Among the few things about expanding YK that I liked was his impact on GJ; the two of them being much more intimate early on in the series made his betrayal of GJ (at the Beggar’s Conference) such a turning point that GJ seemed to mature very rapidly after that. I was glad that MNC was given much larger exposure as a necessary foil for YK although the one-note Liu Shishi failed to carry off the heavier responsibilities. Of those who fared better, I agree that OYK was the standout, kudos to the writers and Li Jie for making his multi-faceted personality so sympathetic and hateful at the same time – he’ll probably be the first OYK to get a significant female fan base after Miu Kiu Wai (spinoff, anyone?). Wan Yan Honglie deserved an honorable mention as well, who would have thought that one could empathize with him but he was the one character that embodied unconditional love, unstinting dedication, courage against all odds and inspirational leadership, so much so that I was tempted to forgive him his book legacy crime (of passion) against the Yangs and the Guos. I applauded his death-scene speech when he questioned the sanctimonious and self-serving motives of YK and GJ in executing him as an enemy of the Song dynasty when they themselves served questionable masters. The 7 Freaks, 7 Taoists, the beggars and the Mongolians (yes, that princess was annoying) were all one dimensional but they were really there just to advance the plot and not get in the way too much. Large colonies of minor characters cluttering the landscape have always been a major challenge in adapting Jin Yong novels – the most recent example being the unremarkable Sword Stained with Royal Blood (so many people standing around doing nothing, getting in the way of that beautiful scenery) – so I was pleasantly surprised when I didn’t get that claustrophobic feeling in LOCH08. The Yang parents were far more realistic than the book but so unvarying in their ultimate objective, and somewhat detached in their interactions with each other and YK, as to be utterly boring (I kind of blame the actors on this one). GJ’s mother was a nice touch, and arguably underused; I was glad that they made her take to HR only gradually – her hard won blessing gave HR and GJ’s conjugal alliance so much more validity. All said, the plot deviations or downsizing and the character development of minor figures fell far short of wholesale success but was thought-provoking enough to get a pat on the back.


    Fence-Sitting

    Acting. Okay, I’ll admit I was fascinated by Ariel Lin’s portrayal of HR and I was never a fan of hers before LOCH. The forums are abuzz with her not being “xie” enough but I feel that this was true of all the previous HRs. Barbara Yung’s HR was girlishly tempestuous and obstinate while Zhou Xun was…hmm, coldly calculating; and both were extensions of the actresses’ own core personalities. I believe that Jin Yong’s description of HR as a seamless combination of nastiness and nice is a tall order – the passages about HR cutting off noses and disrupting village banquets have always struck me as a little off-key, it felt like the author forced himself to put them in to remind us that HR is supposed to be eccentric. It would take a heroic effort to meld together such a personality and I don’t think that Ariel set out to resolve the incongruity. Instead, she concentrated on bringing to life the HR of 90% of the book, the feisty girl-child game for any adventure, the clever plotter who would commit any number of selfish acts for a loved one, and the adorable (and gentle) beauty whom the morally irreproachable GJ judged to be a “very, very good girl” only a few days after meeting her for the first time. He wasn’t wrong for it must be recalled that the post-marriage HR was a pretty conventional character whom her stick in the mud husband said abided by the customary norms. What I mean is, HR’s eccentricity didn’t need to take center-stage and Ariel shouldn’t be criticized for having succeeded in manifesting the major traits of the character and not the secondary ones. I felt that Ariel was the life of the party and I, for one, was glad that she was there to lead and cue Hu Ge. I loved some of their less verbose scenes together – dashing around the palace garden, arguing about YK by the bridge in Lin An, breaking tables and chairs in the inn, quietly waiting together for Yideng to see to HR’s poisoning. I loved how this HR was always jealously protecting her Jing Gege – it’s such a modern feminist attitude for a pint-sized dynamo to constantly throw herself physically between her man and danger. The rest of the flaws of this HR should not be placed solely on Ariel’s shoulders. HR came across as being right all the time and clever to a fault because of the re-imagining of certain plot elements – the most notable was the cause leading to her injury, where HR’s mistake in the book was out of character, it was entirely plausible that she would take a hit for GJ. The character would also be in conflict if she had to be eccentric and take care of GJ at the same time (you can’t mother someone when you’re too busy being a petulant kid yourself).


    Which brings us to Guo Jing. I expected great things from Hu Ge because I loved his style. But, it wasn’t there in LOCH. I was saddened after reading Li Guoli’s comments on sina.com that the series would have been much more enjoyable had Hu Ge’s road accident never happened. He said that Hu Ge lost the purity and unaffectedness of his acting style, to be replaced by a deep melancholy. The poor guy must still be suffering from post traumatic disorder and the difference in his characterization was profound to someone like me who had just finished watching him in Yang Warriors (I loved it when his Yang Liulang turned uber serious and determined in the end. I also loved his nonchalant but honest good nature for most part). His Liaozhai, Chinese Paladin and TWFX characters were also heartening in the same way – his natural ebullience lifted the mediocrity of the productions, the light on his face was always present no matter what the scene required. I knew that Hu Ge is a smart young man and it takes the smartest actors to play the most mentally challenged people (think Sean Penn in “I am Sam” and Leo DiCaprio in “What’s Eating Gilbert Grape?”). But he didn’t make it. The accident didn’t help his confidence and possibly left a psychological scar so that, for a large part, his GJ felt flat. I see him relying on Ariel to lead a lot of the time (almost all of the longer conversations the 2 have together). His GJ was reactive, with a wary self-consciousness that was new for me when watching Hu Ge (I felt it keenly especially in sequences with both Qigong and HR present). Unlike Felix Wong who stood shoulder to shoulder with Barbara Yung, he paled in Ariel’s vivacious shadow; I felt that the two didn’t so much as complement each other as GJ somehow relegating himself to being HR’s project. On the other hand, I fear that if it wasn’t for the familiar chemistry of the pairing with Ariel, this GJ would be completely unsatisfying – the range shown was too narrow and sometimes it’s almost like he’s trying to recall the flair that made him special. There were essentially just 2 GJs for the whole 50 episodes, the earnest child-like talkative one in the beginning and the sad better groomed slow-speaking one in the last ten.


    Of the 5 Greats, Laowantong included, the most problematic for me was OYF. The veteran actor played him too buffoonish to instill the fear and awe that the primary villain should convey. There was no presence, the rather lilting dubbed voice didn’t help much and I found myself guffawing at his flashback scenes on the conception of OYK. I was disappointed when he took over from OYK as the main baddie on the scene. Never once did I feel that the other characters should be afraid of him or that OYK should be inspired to love him. HYS was effective but not jaw-droppingly so; I had expected Anthony Wong to generate awe just by his presence but he was strangely retiring (but I liked his scenes with HR’s mother). Yideng was positively pedestrian and unmemorable, Ying Gu hardly made an impact, hers was the one part that I wished the actress would have played up. Sha Gu was likable, she didn’t chew the scenery when she could have. The extremely screechy ZBT did the best he could as the energetic comic relief and he overplayed it a little but he had lots of help from Qigong. QG was boisterous fun but didn’t manage to convey the innate nobility of character that would encourage the depressed GJ on Huashan. But I think that many of the shortcomings were due to the constraints of the script not wanting to deviate too much from the canonical descriptions.


    Dislikes

    Since there is an abundance of negative criticism on the forums already, I’ll keep mine brief. Script drawbacks were the main negatives – the confused motivations (YK), the mistaken belief that maudlin conversations or sappy bonding scenes equal character development (the Yang family arc and the WYHL/OYK plot). There were few memorable vignettes and the last 30 episodes feel rushed. The songs were weak(I loved the LOCH03 theme song, why couldn’t Li Guoli have used folk rock instead of pop; raising the gallantry of the theme songs by a few levels would have made a world of difference, the series is called the Condor Heroes after all. I thought that Yang Warriors had a good OST), the CGI despicable (it was the same as Chinese Paladin and TWFX. Less is more where the condors and snakes were concerned). Poor acting detracted from the plot (Father Yang, MNC, Princess HZ, Yideng, OYF).

  9. #1569
    Senior Member sniffles's Avatar
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    Nice review, aicof! Welcome to the forums.

    Oh, and I completely agree with you about the theme music. The LOCH '03 opening title theme is awesome. I wish I could find a recording of it. The '08 theme just doesn't really make an impression on me.
    你看这些云彩,聚了又散,散了又聚,人生离合也是一样。

  10. #1570
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    Quote Originally Posted by sniffles View Post
    Nice review, aicof! Welcome to the forums.

    Oh, and I completely agree with you about the theme music. The LOCH '03 opening title theme is awesome. I wish I could find a recording of it. The '08 theme just doesn't really make an impression on me.
    What did you think of the '03' end theme?

  11. #1571
    Senior Member ChineseChik525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesG View Post
    What did you think of the '03' end theme?
    i personally really like the '03 end theme. i even have it on my ipod


  12. #1572
    Senior Member cristal entity's Avatar
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    I have both the ending and opening.
    The opening was chivalrous.
    This new LOCH opening and ending both suck
    내가 황제라면, 모든 단어에 의미를 부여하기 위해 사전을 만드는 일 부터 시작할 것이다.

    AkA: strife_au in the old mythic golden era of SPCNET pre-2007... Pioneer and architect of chaos... The legend lives.

  13. #1573
    Senior Member vindikattor's Avatar
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    I just begin watching this version. The one that I can't understand is that if the producers wanted to stray from the novel quite a bit, why can't they also titled the series differently i.e. The Condor Heroes adapted from...etc.

    This way, we kind of know what to expect from the series. I know many of you applauded the effort to make it different than the previous LOCH series, but I, for one, was a little disappointed after waited 2 years to finally watch it.

    I still cannot get over the fact that Wanyan HongLie can kick some butt beating the likes of Yang TieXin and Qiu ChuJi.
    He said "Mie at the top, Jue at the bottom". She replied "Yes, Absolute Annihilation...

  14. #1574
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    i actually like both the ending song and opening. i think the ost could've been better like lgl other series, chinese paladin, twfx, young warriors. i wish they had better songs during the scenes instead of the women singing...

    this series still is good for those who never watch other versions of condor heroes. and it's still not hard to form a sequel with the way ending came about.

    only thing i wish was i wanted fight scenes to last longer or something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vindikattor View Post
    I just begin watching this version. The one that I can't understand is that if the producers wanted to stray from the novel quite a bit, why can't they also titled the series differently i.e. The Condor Heroes adapted from...etc.

    This way, we kind of know what to expect from the series. I know many of you applauded the effort to make it different than the previous LOCH series, but I, for one, was a little disappointed after waited 2 years to finally watch it.

    I still cannot get over the fact that Wanyan HongLie can kick some butt beating the likes of Yang TieXin and Qiu ChuJi.
    i'd love to fast forward parts that i didn't like, you should try it, so it won't get on you nerves, except if the part you didn't like was more than half

  16. #1576
    Senior Member vindikattor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kblyear View Post
    i'd love to fast forward parts that i didn't like, you should try it, so it won't get on you nerves, except if the part you didn't like was more than half
    If I did that, then I'll finish all 50 episodes in under 1 hour...

    I am only on episode 13 and the death of Guo XiaoTian/Bao XiRuo should be a dramatic scene. It failed miserably. Why is Qu LingFeng still alived?
    He said "Mie at the top, Jue at the bottom". She replied "Yes, Absolute Annihilation...

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    Ok, I have reach the half way point and I can honestly say that I am quite impressed with Ariel's acting by the minutes. She pretty much convey all essence of HR, from the innocence, childish, to jealousy, selfish yet self-sacrificing...etc. I guess Ariel's performance is good enough to carry another 25 eps for me. Aicof's review pretty much convey most of my sentiments about this series as well. I'll see how it goes for the final half and follow up from there.

    PS: The beginning song as mentioned is way too poppish. Beside the classic 83 sets (one of the best track collections in my eyes), LOCH 03 and BXJ 06 probably have two of the most chivalrous openings for JY series out there. It set the tone for the series and get you into that "legendary" feeling.
    Last edited by drymonkey; 09-06-08 at 02:11 AM.

  18. #1578
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesG View Post
    What did you think of the '03' end theme?
    I don't like it as much. It's a style of ballad that just doesn't appeal to me. But I don't hate it.
    你看这些云彩,聚了又散,散了又聚,人生离合也是一样。

  19. #1579
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    I finally got the time to watch another episode of this last night. I've only seen episodes 1 - 5 so far.

    I liked it that the fight between YK and GJ at the "Contest for a wife" lasted longer than it did in LOCH '03. The fighting looked pretty good, too.

    But I was disappointed that just like LOCH '03 they didn't include any scenes of Hou Tonghai chasing HR through the crowd of onlookers. I guess they thought it would be too distracting to cut between the combat and the chase. But I thought that scene was very funny and I was hoping to see it dramatized as it appears in the book.

    I like the actor playing Wang Chuyi.
    你看这些云彩,聚了又散,散了又聚,人生离合也是一样。

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    man i hope this series comes out english subs soon on dvd.

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