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Thread: Strongest And Most Skilled Out Of Wong Yerk See/Huang Yaoshi's disciples

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt
    They were martial arts geniuses, whereas Guo Jing was a newb. MCF and CXF were also far, far, far, far below HQG and OYF.
    Well...genius or not, I just try to say that what Ken suggest is not "absolute", i.e., QZ inner power is not that "essential" to understand 9 Yin (it will help a lot but not in the level of "essential"). Say, other interesting exception could be ZWJ and I talk about him at the time right before he learn 9 Yang in the cave (i.e., after he got his medical skill). I also believe that many skillful Shaolin monks, ZZR and a few people in HSDS can learn and understand 9 Yin too (not immediately understand but after spending time learning).

    Maybe it would be correct to say that you cannot really understand 9 Yin if you don't know anything about a certain type of knowledge like medical theory or Taoist-based theory of inner cultivation.
    Last edited by Wu Xing; 05-02-06 at 02:33 PM.

  2. #42
    Senior Member kyss of the sword's Avatar
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    it doesn't mtter wherther you have QZ base or not. 9yin has it's own internal and external techniques. CXF and MCF could practise the external techniques properly because they did not have the proper inner power practise to match it. they could only practise the external skills which did not specifically depend on taoist inner power. guo jing had both the inner power and external aspects of 9yin. when HQG and OFY got their parts and versions of 9yin, it was internal and external both. QZ was useful because it was similar to 9yin and would aid in mastering the skill, but it was not a reqiuement. huang rong learnt 9yin and she did not have QZ inner power. she just followed 9yin innerpower. having a taoist inner power base would help in decipering the inner power part. OYF was tricked by huang rong with his reverse parts partly because he did not possess taoist knowledge, so he couldn't tell that every second line of the manual was written in the reverse order.
    9yin external part contains all kinds of skills that exist in the world and ways to beat them. including non-taoist originated.
    THE KYSS OF THE SWORD IS DEADLY BUT EXQUSITE
    he's the strongest in history but he's the disciple.
    http://www.mangafox.com/manga/histor...ciple_kenichi/

  3. #43
    Senior Member Extremer88's Avatar
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    Exactly, if ZZR had the time to master the full version of the 9Yin and not the shortcut version. I believe she still would be able to fully master it even without QZ's or some other powerful taoism-based internal energy 9Yin have its own inner cultivation techniques
    ..ext88

  4. #44
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyss of the sword
    huang rong learnt 9yin and she did not have QZ inner power. she just followed 9yin innerpower. having a taoist inner power base would help in decipering the inner power part.
    Notice, however, that Wong Yung got much less out of the 9 Yum Jen Ging than Gwok Jing did. Having a system such as the Cheun Jen Sect's martial arts as a foundation is a significant boost to maximizing the benefits gained from practicing the 9 Yum Jen Ging.

  5. #45
    Senior Member kyss of the sword's Avatar
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    GJ already possesed much higher inner power then huang rong when they first met, then he drank the snake blood and got a huge boost. after getting 9yin, they both practised and improved their inner power alot but because huang rong was busy taking care of her child and running the beggers sect, she didn't have as much time to cultivate her inner power. but it was still rather higher.
    THE KYSS OF THE SWORD IS DEADLY BUT EXQUSITE
    he's the strongest in history but he's the disciple.
    http://www.mangafox.com/manga/histor...ciple_kenichi/

  6. #46
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    Did GJ actually receive the full and proper QZ inner power training methods. In the 1982 TVB adaptation, Ma Yuk said that he only taught GJ some basic breathing exercises. Was this just a "white lie" to save face for the 7 Freaks?

  7. #47
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CFT
    Did GJ actually receive the full and proper QZ inner power training methods. In the 1982 TVB adaptation, Ma Yuk said that he only taught GJ some basic breathing exercises. Was this just a "white lie" to save face for the 7 Freaks?
    It was two years worth of training, which was quite substantial.

  8. #48
    Senior Member Exodus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyss of the sword
    GJ already possesed much higher inner power then huang rong when they first met, then he drank the snake blood and got a huge boost. after getting 9yin, they both practised and improved their inner power alot but because huang rong was busy taking care of her child and running the beggers sect, she didn't have as much time to cultivate her inner power. but it was still rather higher.
    If they both practiced 9 yin then 9 yin is really overrated cos i don't see that HR was even close to being a great

  9. #49
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exodus
    If they both practiced 9 yin then 9 yin is really overrated cos i don't see that HR was even close to being a great
    Even an extraordinary martial art requires a practitioner of extraordinary talent to maximize its potential. Wong Yung, for all her intellectual brilliance, didn't have as much of this particular kind of talent as Gwok Jing did. It also highlights the importance of the Taoist foundation to really get at the core essence of the 9 Yum Jen Ging.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Exodus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    Even an extraordinary martial art requires a practitioner of extraordinary talent to maximize its potential. Wong Yung, for all her intellectual brilliance, didn't have as much of this particular kind of talent that Gwok Jing did. It also highlights the importance of the Taoist foundation to really get at the core essence of the 9 Yum Jen Ging.
    Maybe so but i still think that the greats wouldn't get a huge boost in the inner energy department if the practiced 9 ying. Since they already have reached such a high level of internal and external martial art.

    Guess i would be better for a person the begin from the scratch, a person that don't know much martial arts at all...

  11. #51
    Senior Member yittz's Avatar
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    ZBT immediately felt the increase in power with 9Yin. OYF was able to make use of reverse 9 Yin. WCY was able to defeat LCY's anti-QZ kungfu with 9Yin, where using his noogie and QZ kungfu couldn't. None of the greats other than those really practiced 9 Yin, so we don't really know what would happen if they did.

    HR didn't really bother with 9 Yin. ZBT made GJ memorise 9Yin etc. HR had access to peach blossum arts and she didnt even bother learning 10% of it. She only learnt kungfu for fun really. The only art she focused on was dog beating stick, and that was enough to compete with below greats level.

  12. #52
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exodus
    Maybe so but i still think that the greats wouldn't get a huge boost in the inner energy department if the practiced 9 ying. Since they already have reached such a high level of internal and external martial art.
    They wouldn't, naturally, because their progress had plateaued. They were already Greats, so their upward arc, such as it was, was going to be relatively flat compared to that of a young Gwok Jing, whose martial arts development at the end of LOCH was far from mature (which is yet another reason why those claims in ROCH about the Golden Wheel Monk "doubling" his internal energy sound a bit suspect). The 9 Yum Jen Ging enabled Gwok Jing to attain the level attained by the Greats in half the time; at age 30, he was already at a point that they did not reach until they were in their 60s. To me, this speaks volumes about both the 9 Yum Jen Ging's potency and Gwok Jing's natural potential.

  13. #53
    Senior Member yittz's Avatar
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    What evidence are there to suggest that they plateaued? They kept up with YG and JLFW during that 16 year break where they were both described to have progressed significantly (used to think the opposite).

    If you are already at a certain level, obviously the martial arts manual that was designed for anyone, won't give you the 'hit' it will give a newbie like GJ. But the greats had little contact with 9Yin anyway.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by yittz
    What evidence are there to suggest that they plateaued?
    Mainly, it's because the feats they performed towards the end of ROCH didn't seem to dramatically differ from the feats they performed towards the beginning of ROCH (or for that matter, since the end of LOCH). It's one thing for Jin Yong to say that Character A has doubled his inner power, but when Character A is described as more or less doing what he did sixteen or thirty-six years earlier, it casts the claim of "doubling" in doubt. I've yet to encounter an instance of an ROCH senior Great performing any feat post-16 years that he could not perform pre-16 years...or even at the end of LOCH. I believe that progress for the senior Greats did continue, but on a much flatter arc than the steep arc that Gwok Jing took between LOCH and ROCH.

  15. #55
    Senior Member Tazzy1972's Avatar
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    also due to their old age, their levels should have more or less came to a max...
    TaZzY InC

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