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Thread: What were the Shaolin leaders in HSDS thinking letting Sing Kwun join?

  1. #1
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default What were the Shaolin leaders in HSDS thinking letting Sing Kwun join?

    Sing Kwun was an infamous murderer and coward long before he ever became a Shaolin monk. He had murdered his student Golden Haired Lion King Tse Tsun's entire family in order to initiate feuds between the Ming Cult and the rest of wulin (all to avenge his lover having married former Ming Cult Leader Yeung Ding Teen). There's no doubt that he was evil.

    So why did the Shaolin monks accept him as one of their own?

    I can kind of understand that as Buddhist monks, they would try to practice the principles of mercy, forgiveness, and redemption (at least Hung Geen, who took in Sing Kwun, would...maybe not the others), but even if that were the case and they decided to provide Sing Kwun safe harbor at Shaolin, he should be a lowly janitor monk (not to be confused with THE Janitor Monk of DGSD fame). Instead, they promoted him to Yeun-class (which, under the Shaolin hierarchy of the time, was just one class below the reigning Hung class if you don't count the retired Dao class of elders). Sing Kwun had real influence at Shaolin. Chief Abbot Hung Wan always seemed to listen to his counsel. Sing Kwun should never have been allowed such a position of influence at Shaolin. It's how he was able to pull off his many manipulations and schemes during HSDS.

    What was the Shaolin leadership thinking?

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    Senior Member Phoenix_Aquaris's Avatar
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    Xie Xun became a high ranked Shaolin monk too.. Honestly, Cheng Kun just had to pretend that he was enlightened and a little bit of pretence is all that matters.. And many of those high-ranked monks only looked at the bright side of everything.. oblivious to Cheng Kun's misdeeds and hypocripsy..

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    I think when Hung Geen brought him in, the other monks doesn't know his past. And since Hung Geen have made the decision to bring him, I guess the other monks just trust Hung Geen's judgement and since Sing Kwun is a disciple of Hung Geen, the monks not knowing his past may have given him more respect out of the fact that he's Hung Geen's student.

    Also in the adaptations (i didn't read the novels), no other monks in Shaolin seem to know fo Sing Kwun's past which led them to believe him more.

    Correct me if I'm wrong.
    可惜不是你 陪我到最后

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    Senior Member AnhHung's Avatar
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    If I remember correctly, it was only Hung Geen who knew who Sing Kwun was. The other Hung monks was furious and suprise when ZWJ revealed Sing Kwun identity on Ming peak. Why Hung Geen took in Sing Kwun? Well, you put it quite well; they would try to practice the principles of mercy, forgiveness, and redemption. Also Sing Kwun acted as if he was regretting his cruel acts and asking Hung Geen to mediate the dispute.

    Another reason for Hung Geen to take in Sing Kwun was his martial uncle, one of the Dao monks. Sing Kwun fired up the feud between the Dao monk and Yeung Ding Teen. He then wanted to be a student of the Dao monk, but was referred to Hung Geen because the Dao monk didnt except students. Hung Geen couldnt say no even if he wanted to.

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    Senior Member HuangYushi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    What was the Shaolin leadership thinking?
    Not thinking at all, actually. j/k

    In Chapter 8 (2nd ed), Kong Jian the monk told Xie Xun the following things:
    • that he (Xie Xun) wanted "to commit another disturbing crime to force Cheng Kun out of hiding, so that you can avenge your entire household."

    • that "the Cheng Kun of today is different from the one you knew in the past. Your martial arts skills are way below his and you will not succeed in seeking revenge."

    • that "he (Cheng Kun) has found a new teacher and improved by leaps and bounds in the last three years."

    • that "Cheng Kun told me (Kong Jian) [all the above]."

    • that "He (Cheng Kun) has been by your (Xie Xun's) side all these years, but you (XX) have not been able to recognise him because of his disguises."

    • that "Your (Xie Xun's) teacher [i.e. Cheng Kun] is very ashamed that he had harmed your family in a drunken stupor, so he did not want to take your life each time you sought him for revenge. He did not even want to injure you, but you attacked him like a mad man. Hence, he had no choice but to strike you, so that he could escape. He followed you secretly after that, helping you three times when you were in danger."

    • that "he (Cheng Kun) knows that his sins are too great to warrant your (Xie Xun's) forgiveness, but he hopes the memory of it will slowly fade over time."

    • that "your teacher's [i.e. Cheng Kun's] drunken indiscrimination was also an accident. Furthermore, he has already repented of his wrongdoings. He hopes that you will consider the past teacher-student relationship between the both of you, and give him a way out."


    Going by the above, Cheng Kun apparently told Kong Jian a story of remorse and repentance, and Kong Jian accepted him as a student out of compassion, kind-hearted, etc. Although Kong Wen was the abbot of Shaolin, he probably gave Kong Jian some leeway in accepting students/disciples. Besides, what is there to stop Shaolin for accepting someone who seemed genuinely remorseful and repentant to them?

    As the student of Kong Jian, Cheng Kun could use the generation name of "Yuan", and he did, probably given by Kong Jian himself.

    When Kong Jian finally lay dying, he said, "I ... did not expect him (Cheng Kun) ... him to break his word..."

    It was then that he knew Cheng Kun was not as remorseful and repentant as he had seemed. But it was too late. Kong Jian died, and no one in Shaolin knew better.
    Jin Yong's Ode to Gallantry [侠客行].
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    Senior Member Tazzy1972's Avatar
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    and also one of the Du monks asked him to take Cheng Kun in
    TaZzY InC

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    Senior Member kyss of the sword's Avatar
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    i don't think that kong jian would need anyone's permission to take a disiple. as long as the person has the right quality to learn, it's fine. qiquiji taught yang kang and the other QZ seven did not know about it all.
    THE KYSS OF THE SWORD IS DEADLY BUT EXQUSITE
    he's the strongest in history but he's the disciple.
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    Member Naruto-kun's Avatar
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    Not really. I think they know.. At least Elder Ma and Elder Wang knew about Yang-kang. Let's check it later.

    I Bet that Cheng Kun guy was an Oskar-class actor. And you know monks are. They're stubborn as hell they usually mocked with 'mule' or 'donkey' ? Cheng-kun got the Yuan-class because his direct mentor was Kong-jian. It's not a 'special' class. I think it's just a way they indexing their generation.

    For example, if the first generation called 'Hong' and the second 'Yuan' and the third 'Mo' then if someone (even if it's new) had a 'Hong' as his master, then his name would be 'Yuan' and if his tutor is a 'Yuan' then he'll be a 'Mo'.. or I think

    Anyway another 'stupid' Monk would be a 'no-named' Monk from Divine Dragon Temple (in RoCH) that helped the Lu couple from Li Mo Cho. He protected two life but never thought that Li Mo Cho would kill another hundred just to feed her anger.. Monks..!
    Liberalism is not a philosophy. It's a mental disorder. -- Michael Savage.

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    I believe the unnamed Heavenly Dragon Temple monk made the top 10 list of most stupid members of wulin that someone posted on this forum. I mean, it's hard to predict that Li Mo Chou would go and kill another hundred over that, so it's not like there's anything wrong with protecting the Lu couple anyway, but surely if LMC then goes out and kills 100 people in retaliation, then you should go out and drop the bomb on her....

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