ZWJ's true art: 9 Yang Internal+QKDLY+Tai Chi gong

[PJ]

Does this refer to WYY then? She knows a lot of the martial arts, but has no desire to learn them. Did WYY reach the highest level of martial arts in words of Sweeper Monk?

Of course not, since she did not "achieve a high level in martial arts." She only "achieved a phenomenal stage in knowledge" but not in "the application of martial arts."

[batmankiller]

Just because "the enemies did not get in close range of the body" doesn't mean it was LDA. The distance remains unknown. It could be any where between 2 feet to 20+ feet. Unless you can prove the distance beyond reasonable doubt, it can't be positively identified as an instance of LDA.

I already gave you evidence about JLFW vs. 1deng and although we agreed that compared to XF it was pathetic.. we did agree that it was a distanced energy clash . quite frankly this fan-made rule of an LDA having to be 10 meters+ is bullshit and that's like saying "a person with refined martial arts must be able to tap someone to death" And further not.. LDA wasn't a major idea in JY's writing at the time nor was it even in his mind yet. Well quite frankly I believe there is no distance as long as it's not a direct palm clash and only nidirect palm energies is used to injure.. then it's LDA.. And considering LDA is a now a variational point of view.. it's no longer subject for debates thank you very much. You can however say the distance demonstrated by non-direct palm clashes were greater in distance shown in DGSD...

[Felix]

In DGSD96, Qiao Feng was facing the two sidekicks of MRF. WYY was helping out the two by telling them where to attack and where to defend. It turns out, QF was too fast, that WYY help did not do anything.

If WYY herself was the person who used the martial arts and she had the skills, would she be fast enough to overcome, or is she also slow in observing what QF is doing?

[PJ]

I already gave you evidence about JLFW vs. 1deng and although we agreed that compared to XF it was pathetic.. we did agree that it was a distanced energy clash . quite frankly this fan-made rule of an LDA having to be 10 meters+ is bullshit and that's like saying "a person with refined martial arts must be able to tap someone to death" And further not..

You need to read more carefully. It's not 10+ meters. It's 10+ feet.

Well quite frankly I believe there is no distance as long as it's not a direct palm clash and only nidirect palm energies is used to injure.. then it's LDA..

You gave your argument about Yideng vs GWM to be considered injuring, and I explained why I disagreed.

[batmankiller]

No you didn't..read back.. considering they were "PURPOSELY" trying to NOT get hit by the palm energies by releasing a palm energy back to counter itit's quite clear the energies from both palms were capable of injuring. I mean 1D and HR themselves knew if the battle continued 1D would lose due to unable to his unability keep up.. and honestly if 1D didn't HAVE to, he wouldn't have went into this internal energy war, but because the energies released by both JLFW was dangerous, 1D had to go with it. And even 1D was the one who shot first.. JLFW knew it was capable of injury so therefore he attacked back.. and IF the palm energies was not capable of injury in the first place.. why would 1D or JLFW even bother wasting their internal energy on it. Saying that it's in-capable of injuring someone is ridiculous when people clearly use and defend against it.. makes wuxia characters look bored and dumbfounded?

If anything GJ just did an "indirect palm clash" and under my pov.. a "LDA" from the text citation that kyss just did.

And don't tell me to read more carefully, I've read someone saying 10 meters.. and guess what.. they aren't wrong.. because it's there individual judgement on what an LDA is, when did JY say an LDA had to be 10 feet? Never, it's just fan-interpretation on what they THINK the requirements should be. I never want to hear "It's not an LDA because it wasn't past 10 feet+ or blah blah..." now do you understand why the ability to do an "LDA" should be disqualified from all debates.. and should only focus on the "power and length distance capable of these "in-direct palm clashes."

[CC]

Does this refer to WYY then? She knows a lot of the martial arts, but has no desire to learn them. Did WYY reach the highest level of martial arts in words of Sweeper Monk?

Yes she knew a lot of stuff but it consisted of stuff like Five Tiger Gate breaking Sabre or The Six Unity Blade etc etc. The highest kung-fu she demonstrated some knowledge of was the Dog-Beating Stick and it wasn't complete. She apparantly had no inkling of stuff like Xiao Yao arts because she was completely baffled when she saw DCQ's and XZ's palm styles.

In any case, XF was using some basic 'Quan Jiao' kung fu when she was fighting the 2 retainers. If he pulled out a Kang Long You Hui, I don't think it matters if she can shout the warning in time.

[PJ]

And don't tell me to read more carefully, I've read someone saying 10 meters.. and guess what.. they aren't wrong.. because it's there individual judgement on what an LDA is

You are certainly entitled to your personal interpretation of what constitutes a LDA. However, the standard minimum distance for LDA was set by Kenny (who first came up with the term LDA on SPCNET), and I find it a reasonable cutoff. Of course, it needn't be a strict cutoff; it's just a guideline for what LDA should look like.

when did JY say an LDA had to be 10 feet? Never

Of course Jin Yong did not, because he did not come up with the term LDA.

I never want to hear "It's not an LDA because it wasn't past 10 feet+ or blah blah..." now do you understand why the ability to do an "LDA" should be disqualified from all debates..

No. The ability to perform YOUR definition of LDA should be disqualified from all debates, because it makes little sense. By your definition, even if the injury was caused by palm wind 1 inch from the chest, that constitutes a LDA. Well, I don't think 1 inch is much of a long distance, and Kenny certainly did not think it qualifies as LDA.

and should only focus on the "power and length distance capable of these "in-direct palm clashes."

Huh? Not sure what you mean...

[PJ]

considering they were "PURPOSELY" trying to NOT get hit by the palm energies by releasing a palm energy back to counter itit's quite clear the energies from both palms were capable of injuring.

*sigh* I already explained in our previous discussion that MAYBE multiple hits from one of the two guys would inflict damage... but there is no proof that ONE of their attacks would cause injury to the other party. By LDA, we are referring to ONE SINGLE attack. It is certainly more powerful to launch multiple attacks instead of just one. The DGSD masters demonstrated the ability to cause injury with just ONE attack, but Yideng did not in this example.

[batmankiller]

You are certainly entitled to your personal interpretation of what constitutes a LDA. However, the standard minimum distance for LDA was set by Kenny (who first came up with the term LDA on SPCNET), and I find it a reasonable cutoff. Of course, it needn't be a strict cutoff; it's just a guideline for what LDA should look like.



Of course Jin Yong did not, because he did not come up with the term LDA.



No. The ability to perform YOUR definition of LDA should be disqualified from all debates, because it makes little sense. By your definition, even if the injury was caused by palm wind 1 inch from the chest, that constitutes a LDA. Well, I don't think 1 inch is much of a long distance, and Kenny certainly did not think it qualifies as LDA.



Huh? Not sure what you mean...

the term LDA is not a made-up term... i'm pretty sure most people knew what a ranged attack was... saying something has to be long-distance is quite unreasonable. Why can't ppl just stay with ranged attacks? instead of being so picky and "LDA." Why not judge ranged attacks and instead just talk about the distance of each attack instead of sayign blah blah can't do an LDA, instead go person A did a rnge attack of a maxmimum 5 ft depicted in the novel while person B did at most 30 ft in the novel. Isn't that much simplier instead of completely making the ROCH greats look worthless by saying they can't do LDA at all and in turn meaning they can't range at all. Making up terms and then setting your own rules for it jsut doesn't seem justified. I don't even know why we decide to all listen and believe in Kenny's own justification of what an LDA. The meaning of LDA is not unknown, it could've been called RA..(ranged atack) or anything, but to say it had to be long-ranged for it to count is highly over-rating the DGSD elites on FIRST LOOK.

PJ.. 1 attack..? THERE IS NO MAYBE.. it's definIte that if it was a multiple, continuating stream it would injure the other person HENCE WHY THEY BLOCKED EACH OTHER WITH THEIR OWN INTERNAL ENERGY blasts. with that mind.. why is it illogical to believe that 1 attack couldn't have done dmg

and please explain your defination of "1 attack." 1yang finger is a stream fire attack when used for range.. how can it be done with 1 attack? Do you mean it's shot once? and even if it's shot once.. do you mean he sends an energy equivalent to one second and then releases and waits and watches his released energy move in for teh ranged kill? Honestly your statement of "1 attack" is quite broad..

[Dennis Chen]

LDA seems like such a small thing compared to all the other great things everyone else was able to do.

[batmankiller]

Yet it's made so big of a deal.

[Whsie]

how in the hell did my thread become another LDA argument?

And btw, PJ, logically speaking, we WON'T know if Yideng or JLFW would get hurt if they get hit because they were constantly moving around; however, based upon the fact that they were dodging around, they certainly didn't want to get hit, suggesting that the damage would have been considerable.
Finally, even if Yideng's Solitary Yang Finger won't automatically 1 hit KO JLFW, as proven later, it's still sufficient to neutralize JLFW.

[batmankiller]

Exactly whsie.. that's my point.. but pj denies it

[Mido-Ban]

Man okay too lazy to read what peoples wrote but have a few questions of my own. tai chi is great and all but for fighting. considering this is more supernatural shooting energy blast etc it ll be utterly useless unless the person who learnt tai chi is strong as well. otherwise if an opponents too fast say dbz style in which the eye or u cant feel/sense their aura then tai chi will be useless as well. i mean you can t beat something that you can t see or feel right? dont get me wrong i learned tai chi like 15 years ago with my master and understand how its all great supreme martial arts but speed is everything as well you know. i m still practising 3-5 forms and haven t move on since its best to see things clearly think of every possible aspect of how an attack will be launched etc. but back to topic does the 9 yin yang whtever auto heals or makes force field or whatever? i mean wht did Cheung Mo Kei learned? i mean he was able to learn things faster etc and heal himself but i remember some people saying in the book the technique auto heals your or makes a force field? well considering all the series i ve watched regardless the 18 Dragon Subduing Palms is the strongest. a weak person will be grand supreme learning under 10 of it you know. check out Cheung Mo Keis senior deciple whatever his name is from the new verson with Alec. he was all mighty etc but was stupid to think about his dad and the girl. what kind of evil guy thats turn evil do that? i mean if i was a bad guy nothing like that would care. and yang guos palms gets stronger if hes sad. so since hes with his wife and you can say he can think of sad memories no matter what it won t be as powerful as it was first created when he was really sad and lost. so Dragon palm is ultimate unless you want the Buddhist Palm into this. sorry for the long useless post.

[batmankiller]

Man okay too lazy to read what peoples wrote but have a few questions of my own. tai chi is great and all but for fighting. considering this is more supernatural shooting energy blast etc it ll be utterly useless unless the person who learnt tai chi is strong as well. otherwise if an opponents too fast say dbz style in which the eye or u cant feel/sense their aura then tai chi will be useless as well. i mean you can t beat something that you can t see or feel right? dont get me wrong i learned tai chi like 15 years ago with my master and understand how its all great supreme martial arts but speed is everything as well you know. i m still practising 3-5 forms and haven t move on since its best to see things clearly think of every possible aspect of how an attack will be launched etc. but back to topic does the 9 yin yang whtever auto heals or makes force field or whatever? i mean wht did Cheung Mo Kei learned? i mean he was able to learn things faster etc and heal himself but i remember some people saying in the book the technique auto heals your or makes a force field? well considering all the series i ve watched regardless the 18 Dragon Subduing Palms is the strongest. a weak person will be grand supreme learning under 10 of it you know. check out Cheung Mo Keis senior deciple whatever his name is from the new verson with Alec. he was all mighty etc but was stupid to think about his dad and the girl. what kind of evil guy thats turn evil do that? i mean if i was a bad guy nothing like that would care. and yang guos palms gets stronger if hes sad. so since hes with his wife and you can say he can think of sad memories no matter what it won t be as powerful as it was first created when he was really sad and lost. so Dragon palm is ultimate unless you want the Buddhist Palm into this. sorry for the long useless post.

Taichi is only a part of 9 yang so it has.. simply put .. the way to reflect attacks like 9 yang except it's not auto and isn't passive.. since ZSF only knew 30% of 9 yang

And as to the fact about DP.. yes it's strong.. but you also need the sufficient internal energy to be able to use it to it's fullest extent. and you said TaiChi is only good when the person who learned it is "strong as well" well 9 yang already makes the person probably one of the strongest with the sufficient internal energy and then QKDLY cultivates the internal energy yet another level and thus strengthening a person's ability to utilize their internal. And then Tai Chi FURTHER enhances internal energy to be a somewhat "active" version of 9 yang.. and is also not as much resource-hogging as QKDLY so it can used to reflect stuff without utilitzing as much internal energy as QKDLY quires even though 9 yang gives the user a copacious amount of it.

[Mido-Ban]

well taichi doesnt really give the user internal energy only if youve practiced for years like zsf did. i mean in all of these series and books you haven t seen someone who used tai chi reflected or repelled another person energy blast. chang wu ji was only able to counter but couldn t attack so i ll say thats a lost what s the point of only countering when you cant attack back? tai chi is great but not in these types of genre you know. i ll say it ll lose to the 9 recluse stance of du gu chei bai or ling hu chong. i mean they everyone was over powered when yeung gors granddaughter/daughter came out. i mean they were all surprised when she said that technique! thats just some weak technique i know? its like whoa that technique is powerful to everyone else but to her its really weak then whats her strongest attack. kills you by looking at you?

[AnhHung]

i mean they everyone was over powered when yeung gors granddaughter/daughter came out. i mean they were all surprised when she said that technique! thats just some weak technique i know? its like whoa that technique is powerful to everyone else but to her its really weak then whats her strongest attack. kills you by looking at you?

ZZR surprise everyone by using Bone Claws, but she didnt pwn them. When she and ZWJ fought the Du monks, she couldnt do shit. ZWJ was fighting them on his own because ZZR couldnt even get into the Demon subduing circle. Everybody saw that and figured out that ZWJ must have taken it easy when he lost to her the previous day. Many posters here believe that she couldnt take on 2nd Wudan hero one on one.

What we know of Lady Yang MA is that she know the real Bone Claws and that she was better than ZZR. But thats not hard at all.

[Mido-Ban]

yeah true but but zhao zhao rui(sp) couldnt learn the jie eing bone claw tech because in order to learn that technique you have to practice on peoples heads like how mei chou fong did. dont know how yang lady learned it i guessed she killed people and practiced on their skull? man how evil is that? well yeah cheung mo kei was way stronger compared to zzr in both the books and all the series i ve watched its just he has feelings for her and didnt really want to hurt her since hes been doing that lately and got hit. i actually like dat fight scene best in the tvb 2000 version. the graphics and the way the music comes out their was the best. but yeah didnt mo kei learned some of the dragon palms in the book? i mean i have the 86 version with tony and i remember after he comes out and saves the meng guo sect (sp) they were in the secret cave/ruins and with everyone in the room he had to open the stone door then he did some cool moves and the screen splits into like 9 i could ve sworn he did the same moves guo jing did. but yeah i like the way tony demonstrates/shows his moves in the 86 his tai chi was very nicely done and the way he uses the magic stance was superb the best yet.

[batmankiller]

yeah true but but zhao zhao rui(sp) couldnt learn the jie eing bone claw tech because in order to learn that technique you have to practice on peoples heads like how mei chou fong did. dont know how yang lady learned it i guessed she killed people and practiced on their skull? man how evil is that? well yeah cheung mo kei was way stronger compared to zzr in both the books and all the series i ve watched its just he has feelings for her and didnt really want to hurt her since hes been doing that lately and got hit. i actually like dat fight scene best in the tvb 2000 version. the graphics and the way the music comes out their was the best. but yeah didnt mo kei learned some of the dragon palms in the book? i mean i have the 86 version with tony and i remember after he comes out and saves the meng guo sect (sp) they were in the secret cave/ruins and with everyone in the room he had to open the stone door then he did some cool moves and the screen splits into like 9 i could ve sworn he did the same moves guo jing did. but yeah i like the way tony demonstrates/shows his moves in the 86 his tai chi was very nicely done and the way he uses the magic stance was superb the best yet.

Uh please read the whole novel or get your facts straight and don't rely STRAIGHT on tv adapatations. the 9 yin black claws CAN be learned without a humans' skull. The only reason Mei chao Feng did it on human's head waas because she only got the technique half of the 9 yin and not the full. It was stated in LOCH. that when ZBT taught GJ 9yin it mentioned how you DON'T have to practice on heads.. but more of the acupoints of the head, MCF didn't understand this because she didn't have the internal part of 9 yin. ZZR had the full 9 yin but she skipped internal and skipped straight to technique part.. aka 9 yin black claws and fire deviatated several times because of this. And because she didn't read the internal she was almost killed by XM Palms and probably wouldn't have done much cuz yin vs yin is not suggested. But anyways because she didn't read the internal part she was unable to grasp the concept and if you had practiced on people's heads it would work, just unorthodox. But since she didn't and she didn't know the internal part.. she basically made a great-calibur move into a level lower than Jade Maiden Art. Since refering back to how JMA was only as greast as it was due to people not understanding how it worked and never seeing it in action.. so yea. And assumign Lady yang is the grand-daughter she probably got the full 9 yin and didn't need to rely on such vicoius practices

[Mido-Ban]

ok that i didnt know. but still i thought zzr had only half of the technique? isnt that what the yang lady said thats reason she can t learn it? but yeah i guess since the novel and the tv adaptions are so completely different. just some questions then for those novels readers, what did xiao feng from demi god learned? or what did chang sang feng learned? because each adaption they always called the manuel some other name it confuses me. like the 9 bone claw it was called jiu ing manuel or something. then it became the 9yin yang manuel or something then some called it gao yaung manuel the righteous manuel(tranlating from what viet called it in the lotch 80s version something like that).and one more questions so zzr husband did he had the complete 18 siu long subdueing palms?