Eight-armed Swordsman Fang Dongbai

[PJ]

Do we know why 8-armed swordsman Fang Dongbai, the single most brilliant martial artist in the history of Beggar Clan's elders, became a servant to Zhao Min?

[Extremer88]

Do we know why 8-armed swordsman Fang Dongbai, the single most brilliant martial artist in the history of Beggar Clan's elders, became a servant to Zhao Min?

He was initially a prominent elder of the Beggars' Clan, but was kick out/terminated or something like that. Zhao Min's dad tries to gather a number of Central Plains martial artists under his command by offering them power and money. He probably joined the Mongols for power and money just as what the Xuanming Elders did.

[IcyFox]

This is an excerpt from HSDS Chapter 24 translated by Dgfds01:

They could not believe their ears and thought: “No matter how profound and mysterious Wudang Sect's Taiji Sword Art is, an enemy watching him teach would be able to pick up and understand its intricacies. The skill will no longer be a secret.” Ah Da said: “That's fine. I'll go outside and wait.” He did not want to gain an advantage this way. Despite his position as a servant, he conducted himself as an eminent master of the martial arts world. Zhang Sanfeng said: “That won't be necessary. This is the first time this new sword skill of mine sees action. I've no idea whether it will be any use at all. You're a famous swordsman - I invite you to point out the flaws of this sword art.” At this time Yang Xiao suddenly realized something. He said clearly: “So you're the ‘Eight Arm Divine Swordsman’ Fang Dongbai. You were once an elder of the Beggar Sect – how did you become a lowly servant?” The Ming Cult members listened with shock. Zhou Dian said: “Aren't you supposed to be dead? This...this...how is this possible?”

Ah Da sighed, lowered his head and said: “The old beggar is almost dead. Why bring up the past? I am no longer a Beggar Sect Elder.” Those of the older generation know that Eight Arm Divine Swordsman Fang Dongbai was the head of the four elders of the Beggar Sect. He was famous throughout the martial arts world for his swordsmanship. He was so unusually fast with the sword that it seemed like he had seven or eight arms, this earned him his nickname. He was said to have died of a serious illness over ten years ago. At that time everyone thought it was a great pity. It was quite a shock to see that he was still among the living. Zhang Sanfeng said: “It is an immeasurable honour for the Eight-Armed Divine Swordsman to give a few pointers. Wuji, do you have a sword?”

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I guess the Mongols saved his life, so he pleged loyalty to them due to his gratitude, but he felt that he was betraying his country so he did not want to talk about it and wanted Jianghu to believe he died an upright man.


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Though it was a wooden sword, when backed with the power of the Art of 9 Yang it was no different from a steel blade. Fang Dongbai tried to pull his right arm back but Zhang Wuji's two fingers held onto the Heaven Sword with an iron-grip. In this circumstances, his only option was to let go of the Heaven Sword and jump away. Only to hear Zhang Wuji yell: “Let go！” Fang Dongbai gritted his teeth but held on to the sword. In a blink of an eye a 'pa' sound was heard. His arm, still holding on to the sword, was cut off by the wooden sword. Fang Dongbai refused to let go of the sword because he wanted to protect it. He stretched out his left hand and snatched the falling right arm out of the air.

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From here I believe he is a man of principle but was forced into his current situation by the circumstances. After all, Jianghu had rules like, "If I save your life, your life now belongs to me".

[PJ]

Thanks Icy. EIGHT ARMED SWORDSMAN Fang Dongbai seems to be such an upright, loyal man. Circumstances played him unfairly. I like him more than ever before.

[Felix]

Thanks Icy. EIGHT ARMED SWORDSMAN Fang Dongbai seems to be such an upright, loyal man. Circumstances played him unfairly. I like him more than ever before.

Reading from that passage, one does feel respect for the man now.

[Ken Cheng]

He doesn't seem like the sort who would associate himself with the likes of Ah 2, Ah 3, and the Yeun Ming Elders, but he was right there with them torturing and crippling Yu Doi Nam at the beginning of HSDS.

[Felix]

He doesn't seem like the sort who would associate himself with the likes of Ah 2, Ah 3, and the Yeun Ming Elders, but he was right there with them torturing and crippling Yu Doi Nam at the beginning of HSDS.

Did all of them torture the third disciple in the novel? It seems from HSDS86, they all did, but later in the series, Ah 3 (the guy with the beard) said he was the one that crippled Yu Doi Nam.

[IcyFox]

He doesn't seem like the sort who would associate himself with the likes of Ah 2, Ah 3, and the Yeun Ming Elders, but he was right there with them torturing and crippling Yu Doi Nam at the beginning of HSDS.

This can go either way:

1. Since he was willing to even lose his hand to 'repay' his 'benefactors', there's nothing much left he wouldn't do.

2. He was just watching and did not help them harm Priest Yu.

[bobbywu]

Is it confirmed that he was there during the torture. Because according to the translation "died over 10 years ago." That means about 10-20 years ago. However, when Zhao Min and her crew challenged Wu Dang, over 20 years had past since ZWJ was 20+ by then. ZWJ wasn't born at the time PRiest Yu was tortured.

Don't think he what take part in the torture while still officially part of the Beggar Clan.

[Ken Cheng]

Of course, standing aside and watching while a good man and hero is being tortured and crippled by a gang of thugs isn't morally that much better than personally participating in the torturing and crippling. Even if Fong was obliged to serve his masters, I think morality would demand that he reevaluate his loyalties in light of the ethical issues involved.

[IcyFox]

Of course, standing aside and watching while a good man and hero is being tortured and crippled by a gang of thugs isn't morally that much better than personally participating to the torturing and crippling. Even if Fong was obliged to serve his masters, I think morality would demand that he reconsider ihs loyalties in light of the ethical issues involved.

Morally, yes. But legally, perhaps not.

Anyway if the circumstances could even force him to defect, then watching a man tortured was probably nothing much to him anymore. Since we're not totally certain about his circumstances, it would be best if we avoid judging him.

[Ken Cheng]

Since we're not totally certain about his circumstances, it would be best if we avoid judging him.

Unless he had loved ones being held hostage by his Mongol masters, it's difficult to think of any just cause for his action (or inaction) in the Yu Doi Nam assault. Repaying one's benefactor is an important tenet of wuxia and Confucian ethics, but protecting the innocent trumps that consideration. Compare Fong's situation to that faced by Gwok Jing in LOCH: the Mongols had always been Gwok Jing's friends, and Genghis Khan had been like a father to him. Nevertheless, when Gwok Jing realized that Genghis' ambitions were evil, Gwok Jing turned against him...personal loyalties be damned.

[IcyFox]

Unless he had loved ones being held hostage by his Mongol masters, it's difficult to think of any just cause for his action (or inaction) in the Yu Doi Nam assault.

Even that may not be justified for some, like (who else but) Guo Jing. Still, different people have different priorities.

And, I'm sure he'd die in peace knowing that The Moderator himself is giving him as much attention as Yang Guo.

[Athena]

Just a few observations:

First of all, Yu Daiyan was not a Taoist priest. None of Zhang Sanfeng's seven disciples were Taoist priests. All of them were secular students, although Song Yuanqiao would wear a Taoist robe from time to time. Especially when he was on Mt. Wudang.

Secondly, we don't know if Fang Dongbai was present when Yu Daiyan was crippled. The 1986 TVB adaptation made it look like he was present, but in the novel it was not confirmed.
In fact, based on the novel. It would seem that A San was the "team leader" of those six Prince Ruyang warriors (who Dou Dajin mistook as the Six Heroes of Wudang).
A' Er was most likely the "team leader" who attacked Yin Liting.

But based on the novel, it would seem that Fang Dongbai, A' Er and A San were sworn brothers.
A San called Fang Dongbai "eldest brother" and A' Er "second brother." This happened at the Wudang fight with Wuji

Although Zhao Min could not care less about these "servants" of her. She didn't even looked at A San and A' Er when they were injured. But when Fang's arm was severed and he clutched his severed arm with the Heavenly Sword and said:"I have failed."
Zhao Min nodded and told him to tend to his injury first.

[kyss of the sword]

Just a few observations:
First of all, Yu Daiyan was not a Taoist priest. None of Zhang Sanfeng's seven disciples were Taoist priests. All of them were secular students, although Song Yuanqiao would wear a Taoist robe from time to time. Especially when he was on Mt. Wudang.
Secondly, we don't know if Fang Dongbai was present when Yu Daiyan was crippled. The 1986 TVB adaptation made it look like he was present, but in the novel it was not confirmed.
In fact, based on the novel. It would seem that A San was the "team leader" of those six Prince Ruyang warriors (who Dou Dajin mistook as the Six Heroes of Wudang).
A' Er was most likely the "team leader" who attacked Yin Liting.
But based on the novel, it would seem that Fang Dongbai, A' Er and A San were sworn brothers.
A San called Fang Dongbai "eldest brother" and A' Er "second brother." This happened at the Wudang fight with Wuji
Although Zhao Min could not care less about these "servants" of her. She didn't even looked at A San and A' Er when they were injured. But when Fang's arm was severed and he clutched his severed arm with the Heavenly Sword and said:"I have failed."
Zhao Min nodded and told him to tend to his injury first.

the three bro's seem to go everywhere together so probably he was there. remember, he was working for the mongols, so doing domething like crippling the wudang disiples probably doesn't 'feel' wrong to him. he has a duty and he does what he has to do to accomplish his job. behaving with the dignity of an expert doesn't mean you are a good guy. a lot of the ming elders did evil and underhanded acts but they also act with 'dignity' in wulin matters.

[Ken Cheng]

the three bro's seem to go everywhere together so probably he was there. remember, he was working for the mongols, so doing domething like crippling the wudang disiples probably doesn't 'feel' wrong to him. he has a duty and he does what he has to do to accomplish his job. behaving with the dignity of an expert doesn't mean you are a good guy. a lot of the ming elders did evil and underhanded acts but they also act with 'dignity' in wulin matters.

That was kind of the underlying theme of HSDS: that in reality (or at least the quasi-reality of the story), many of the chivalric ideals professed by wulin's members were a sham. Many talked the talk; few actually walked the walk. The walk was a difficult one because it required sacrificing one's own interests for the good of others. Only a special few such as Cheung 3 Fung, his seven disciples, Cheung Mo Gei, and very few others in HSDS had this spirit and were capable of this (hence, they are considered true heroes). Most of the other characters in the story, whatever side they might be on, are to different extents hypocritical.

[Athena]

the three bro's seem to go everywhere together so probably he was there. remember, he was working for the mongols, so doing domething like crippling the wudang disiples probably doesn't 'feel' wrong to him. he has a duty and he does what he has to do to accomplish his job. behaving with the dignity of an expert doesn't mean you are a good guy. a lot of the ming elders did evil and underhanded acts but they also act with 'dignity' in wulin matters.

That is just speculation. Fang Dongbai was not present during the attack on Yin Liting. It is not even confirmed if Fang Dongbai was in service of the Prince of Ruyang at that point of the story. Yu Daiyan's crippling happened before Wuji was even born (more than 20 years ago).

[hyoyatika]

Unless he had loved ones being held hostage by his Mongol masters, it's difficult to think of any just cause for his action (or inaction) in the Yu Doi Nam assault. Repaying one's benefactor is an important tenet of wuxia and Confucian ethics, but protecting the innocent trumps that consideration. Compare Fong's situation to that faced by Gwok Jing in LOCH: the Mongols had always been Gwok Jing's friends, and Genghis Khan had been like a father to him. Nevertheless, when Gwok Jing realized that Genghis' ambitions were evil, Gwok Jing turned against him...personal loyalties be damned.

Genghis Khan wasn't evil.