Interpreting Yang Guo vs Yideng

[PJ]

I have been puzzled by this recently.

Chapter 34, ROCH:

杨过听到一灯的声音，也是十分喜欢，他知一灯所使的是上乘内功“千里传音”之法。杨过只听了他这两句话，心 下大为钦服，自叹这位高僧功力浑厚，自己颇有不及

Yang Guo was mighty pleased to hear Yideng's voice. He knew that Yideng had used the highly regarded "Thousand Mile Roar" inner method. Having heard two sentences by Yideng, Yang Guo was extremely impressed; he further sighed at the fact that this monk possessed more robust/vigorous internal power than his own, and he knew that he was not a match yet.

So, Yang Guo considered some aspect of his internal foundation to be inferior to that of Yideng.

BUT LATER IN THE SAME CHAPTER:

杨过纵声长啸，过了一顿饭时分，非但没丝毫衰竭之象，反而气功愈来愈壮。一灯听得也不禁暗自佩服，虽觉他啸 声过于霸道，使的不是纯阳正气，但自己当日盛年之时，却也无这等充沛的内力，此时年老力衰，自 更不如

Yang Guo continued to roared for a long time. His roar did not become weaker over time, but rather seemed like it was getting stronger. Despite Yang Guo's unorthodoxly powered roar being overly aggressive, Yideng could not help but admire the fact that even in his prime days, he never possessed this type of abundant energy as Yang Guo did. Now an old man, he would be even more inferior than before.

Two points of interest here.

1) Yideng clearly thinks that his internal foundation is inferior to Yang Guo in some aspect. Does this contradict what Yang Guo thought about Yideng's inner strength being superior?

2) More importantly, Yideng considered his energy level now to be INFERIOR to before. Does this mean he has LESS internal energy now than 16 years ago?

DISCUSS.

[IcyFox]

Yideng could not help but admire the fact that even in his prime days, he never possessed this type of abundant energy as Yang Guo did. Now an old man, he would be even more inferior than before.

Was I the one who translated this segment? If so, I think I must have translated wrongly.

[Dennis Chen]

In the passage, Yi Deng thought to himself that when he was Yang Guo's age, he had not yet reached the level Yang Guo was at.

[Han Solo]

In terms of internal energy, YG~YD.

In terms of purity of internal energy, YD>YG.

Han Solo

[PJ]

In the passage, Yi Deng thought to himself that when he was Yang Guo's age, he had not yet reached the level Yang Guo was at.

yes, and he further thought that now he is old and weaker, he would be more inferior than when he was younger. so does that mean his martial arts actually declined after 16 years?

[PJ]

Was I the one who translated this segment? If so, I think I must have translated wrongly.

No, that was just my translation.

[duguxiaojing]

1) Yideng clearly thinks that his internal foundation is inferior to Yang Guo in some aspect. Does this contradict what Yang Guo thought about Yideng's inner strength being superior?

2) More importantly, Yideng considered his energy level now to be INFERIOR to before. Does this mean he has LESS internal energy now than 16 years ago?



I was actually wondering about these sentences a bit over a year ago when another poster (philip?) brought this up.

I think Yideng believed that YG's inner power was overly aggressive due to it not being a product of pure yang chi ( 使的不是纯阳正气 ) but he felt that he was inferior to YG in terms of both abundance and agressiveness even in his prime. A sentence later JY as a narrator backs this by saying no martial arts master in the present world was YG's match(实非当世任何高手所能及 im again assuming in terms of agressive and abundant inner power.), but overall it seems that YG is roughly equal to a great (and YD)in terms of inner power.




I think YG might have been modest when he thought he was inferior to YD in terms of inner power, IIRC during this scene he also told GX that YD was one of the "greats" and that he was not YD's match.

yes, and he further thought that now he is old and weaker, he would be more inferior than when he was younger. so does that mean his martial arts actually declined after 16 years?

Not too sure ...but from what I understand a person loses inner power in terms of abundance but gains purity with age.

yes, and he further thought that now he is old and weaker, he would be more inferior than when he was younger. so does that mean his martial arts actually declined after 16 years?

YD believes he does not have YG's abundance even in his prime, let alone now in his old age.... I dont think he believes that he is inferior to YG in terms of inner power overall.

[IcyFox]

No, that was just my translation.

OK. Actually in the 'official' RoCH translation, we kind of left this part out.


Anyway, this is how I would translate that part:
"Even in his prime, he did not have such solid/abundant internal strength. Now that he was old, it was even more so."

So this sentence is stating that since Yideng is older now, his internal strength would of course be less powerful relative to Yang Guo's due to his old age. Which can imply that Yideng is inferior now.


This can probably be explained by the difference between internal energy and internal strength.

[Dennis Chen]

1) Yideng clearly thinks that his internal foundation is inferior to Yang Guo in some aspect. Does this contradict what Yang Guo thought about Yideng's inner strength being superior?

The strength of Yang Guo's internal energy made Yi Deng think about how old he'd become and how his power was waning but he didn't think that his current inner power was less than Yang Guo's.

[Black Night Sea]

杨过纵声长啸，过了一顿饭时分，非但没丝毫衰竭之象，反而气功愈来愈壮。一灯听得也不禁暗自佩服，虽觉他啸 声过于霸道，使的不是纯阳正气，但自己当日盛年之时，却也无这等充沛的内力，此时年老力衰，自 更不如

Yang Guo continued to roared for a long time. His roar did not become weaker over time, but rather seemed like it was getting stronger. Despite Yang Guo's unorthodoxly powered roar being overly aggressive, Yideng could not help but admire the fact that even in his prime days, he never possessed this type of abundant energy as Yang Guo did. Now an old man, he would be even more inferior than before.

Alternative interpretation: Yideng didn’t believe he had this kind of inner strength, the kind that can get stronger by the minute.

The final battle between Yang Guo vs Jinlun Guoshi (I think) demonstrated this kind of inner strength; both fighters were described in the sense that the more the fight drags on the more energetic to become. However with Yideng vs Guoshi, a crzay amount of vapour was emitted from Yideng's head whilst he used Yiyang Finger. This might mean that if the fight prolongs it would not be favourable for him. Yiyang Finger in reality does weaken a person's vitality regardless of what age that person is.

[PJ]

Alternative interpretation: Yideng didn’t believe he had this kind of inner strength, the kind that can get stronger by the minute.

Thank you. I think it makes sense.

However, what do you think about Yideng's comment about him being inferior now than 16 years ago? Does that hint he was more powerful 16 years ago than now?

[Black Night Sea]

From this point it’s probably going to be my superficial views from now on, because I’ve seen this statement being interpreted in many different ways.
Right now, I could only deduce that the capacity of qi stored in his Dantian has reduced but the power in his attacks have increased to the highest level esp when you take into account of the statement about his Yiyang Zhi being at its greatest. This would be due to the cleansing of his qi from cultivation.

In addition, 年老力衰 is a phrase GJ used to describe the future-OYF in the Mongolian camp during LOCH. Reason being that GJ believed that he himself could only get stronger as time goes past, and OYF due to his old age can only get weaker. Although this doesn't appear to be consistent with Jinlun Guoshi, so you may brand him a freak if you wish to do so.

[hyoyatika]

From this point it’s probably going to be my superficial views from now on, because I’ve seen this statement being interpreted in many different ways.
Right now, I could only deduce that the capacity of qi stored in his Dantian has reduced but the power in his attacks have increased to the highest level esp when you take into account of the statement about his Yiyang Zhi being at its greatest. This would be due to the cleansing of his qi from cultivation.

In addition, 年老力衰 is a phrase GJ used to describe the future-OYF in the Mongolian camp during LOCH. Reason being that GJ believed that he himself could only get stronger as time goes past, and OYF due to his old age can only get weaker. Although this doesn't appear to be consistent with Jinlun Guoshi, so you may brand him a freak if you wish to do so.

ZBT also famously said that of course one improves over time...so what gives?