View Poll Results: Was Chow Chi Yerk basically good or evil?

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  • Good

    23 69.70%
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Thread: Chow Chi Yerk: good or evil?

  1. #1
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default Chow Chi Yerk: good or evil?

    During HEAVEN SWORD & DRAGON SABRE, Chow Chi Yerk did some genuinely reprehensible and detestable things, but she also showed moments of great compassion and courage. What was the *true* nature of Chow Chi Yerk's personality? Deep down, was she good or evil?

  2. #2
    Senior Member yittz's Avatar
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    She was led astray. Deep down she was kind (or at least pre-MJ death). (ZZR is who we are talking about right? miss ZWJ no.2?)

  3. #3
    Senior Member bloodstar's Avatar
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    She was misguided by her deeply misguided teacher. Like people in reality she was a mixture of good and bad, a multi-faceted character so to speak.

  4. #4
    Moderator kidd's Avatar
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    She is neither evil nor good. She's a grey area character.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

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  5. #5
    Senior Member Demonic Swordsman's Avatar
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    this is zhou zhirou right?
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  6. #6
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    Yes, Ken is referring to Zhou Zhiruo. Understand that sometimes cantonese names are a bit hard to comprehend for non-canto speakers.

    Anyway back to the original topic, ZZR is more good than evil.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member Guo Xiang's Avatar
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    I think she's actually good, but the competitive and dog-eat-dog environment in Emei influenced her in a bad way. Then there were circumstances when she was forced to do things she didn't want to, but had to, plus what happened between her and ZWJ, which probably warped her already tormented self. The ending result is... well, you know.
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  8. #8
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    i said evil because if she is good, then who is evil in HSDS?
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Zhuge Liang's Avatar
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    It is hard to say. I couldn't say she was entirely evil but at the same time i could not say she was entirely good.

    Before the death of her master i would have classed her as good but after the circumstances played a fair part in turning her. However, that can not be used as a wholesale excuse. Her martial sister that was killed by her master was able to defy her unreasonable requests. ZWJ was similarly plunged into alot of stressful situations but his character stood the test - however he was exceptional.

    While we can't expect a person to behave like those 2 she crossed the line when she kill Zhu Er and left Zhao Man to die on that raft. Thus, what she did was not soley motivated by her masters orders. She sought to monopolise and manipulate ZWJ and blamed others for her crimes. She used some very nasty tactics to get the things she wanted - even Sing Kwun would have been put to shame by her in some regards.

    When she was victimised by her clan members but still had the courage to stand up for them in the face of Granny Golden Flower i was quite touched.

    When she started trying to kill others due to bitterness i lost my sympathy for her. In the end she was more evil than good. Under different circumstances she many not have done any great evils though.

    I think my mixed feelings are testament to Jin Yong's skill at creating complex characters.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member Guo Xiang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhuge Liang
    It is hard to say. I couldn't say she was entirely evil but at the same time i could not say she was entirely good.

    Before the death of her master i would have classed her as good but after the circumstances played a fair part in turning her. However, that can not be used as a wholesale excuse. Her martial sister that was killed by her master was able to defy her unreasonable requests. ZWJ was similarly plunged into alot of stressful situations but his character stood the test - however he was exceptional.

    While we can't expect a person to behave like those 2 she crossed the line when she kill Zhu Er and left Zhao Man to die on that raft. Thus, what she did was not soley motivated by her masters orders. She sought to monopolise and manipulate ZWJ and blamed others for her crimes. She used some very nasty tactics to get the things she wanted - even Sing Kwun would have been put to shame by her in some regards.

    When she was victimised by her clan members but still had the courage to stand up for them in the face of Granny Golden Flower i was quite touched.

    When she started trying to kill others due to bitterness i lost my sympathy for her. In the end she was more evil than good. Under different circumstances she many not have done any great evils though.

    I think my mixed feelings are testament to Jin Yong's skill at creating complex characters.
    Which is why I think she's alot weaker than Ji Xiaofu. Zhou Zhiruo never had as much inner strength and courage than Ji Xiaofu. Yes, Ji Xiaofu died but at least she died with honour. Zhou Zhiruo survived but her reputation's pretty much tarnished by her misdeeds.
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  11. #11
    Senior Member 0-0-0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhuge Liang
    When she started trying to kill others due to bitterness i lost my sympathy for her. In the end she was more evil than good. Under different circumstances she many not have done any great evils though.
    yes, towards the end i did feel that she had become quite evil. Some of her deeds are ones you would never expect someone wholly good to carry out. On the other hand, ZZR started out as being good, and i still think that it was her circumstances that led her to take this path. Hero with a tragic flaw... like all shakespearean heroes I've been studying too much shakespeare

  12. #12
    Senior Member Zhuge Liang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guo Xiang
    Which is why I think she's alot weaker than Ji Xiaofu. Zhou Zhiruo never had as much inner strength and courage than Ji Xiaofu. Yes, Ji Xiaofu died but at least she died with honour. Zhou Zhiruo survived but her reputation's pretty much tarnished by her misdeeds.
    When she stood up against Granny Gold Flower & Zhao Man while imprisoned i felt that her courage matched Ji Xiaofu's. I guess love turned to hatred is what did it, the same disease that plagued quite a few of JY's females. XD
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  13. #13
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    I feel that she is good basically but because of circumstaces, driven to do some of the things she did and her circumstances also changed her nature to be someone she herself might not want to be as well. so I feel for her and sympathize her.

    She is my favourite female lead in all the Jin Yong novels.

  14. #14
    Senior Member shen long's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodstar
    She was misguided by her deeply misguided teacher. Like people in reality she was a mixture of good and bad, a multi-faceted character so to speak.
    agreed,if that old hag didn't 'force' her to do her bidding,theres no way she would turn evil.

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    As the old Chinese saying goes: He who wins is the King, he who loses is the bandit.

  16. #16
    Senior Member douggilmour's Avatar
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    If ppl can be altered by others (especially going against ur own beliefs), than that person is spineless weakling. So zzr is either weak or evil, it still doesn't make a likable character.

  17. #17
    Senior Member patricia n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by douggilmour
    If ppl can be altered by others (especially going against ur own beliefs), than that person is spineless weakling. So zzr is either weak or evil, it still doesn't make a likable character.
    i'm not going to defend zzr, but i want to offer a different perspective to this opinion of yours.

    zzr sees no mercy as a mother figure. don't tell me that children aren't influenced by their parents because we all know that a person's character and personality are shaped by nature and nuture. so does that make you a spineless weakling?

    i do agree to some extent that zzr is weak...however, we can argue that if she was so weak then she could have been influenced by others around her after no mercy died (then she would have turned out for the better). so is she truly weak or is she just evil by nature and the events around her allowed her to reveal her true colors?
    Last edited by patricia n; 06-13-06 at 06:29 PM.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Ding Dang's Avatar
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    there are people who are complicated, they have hidden traits that won't reveal if its not the right time. i won't say zhou zhiruo is all good or all evil, there are too many layers in her personality.

  19. #19
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    being sane recently, i will say that she is good in nature.

  20. #20
    Senior Member douggilmour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ding Dang
    there are people who are complicated, they have hidden traits that won't reveal if its not the right time. i won't say zhou zhiruo is all good or all evil, there are too many layers in her personality.
    But we are categorizing here, these non-answers are pointless.

    An evil person can do many good deeds, and still be an evil person. What makes you "evil" is knowing something is wrong, yet deliberately doing it anyway (i.e. ZZR), for her own benifit.

    Personality has nothing to do with good or evil.
    Last edited by douggilmour; 06-14-06 at 09:05 AM.

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