ZWJ vs. YTZ, XuanMing Elders & Green Bat King.

[augster123]

Thus, the question may be this: is YTZ's YJJ internal energy building based on Yang energy, Yin energy, or neutral? if it was neutral, there is probably still a limit to how much ZWJ can absorb but still that limit is not as bad as Yin energy. If all the opponents' internal energy was Yin based, then ZWJ would have to utilize everything he's got known in his Tai Chi concepts, to try to absorb, sustain and unleash as much Yin energy as his body can possibly do.

To answer myself , thanks to a reminder in another thread that Shaolin internal energy should be Yang-based, it leads me to believe that the practice of Yi Jin Jing will bring forth Yang internal energy.

In other words, ZWJ fanboys have hope.
ZWJ has a good chance of winning, because he should be able to manipulate (absorb then redirect/unleash using QKDNY level 7) the Yang internal energy of the opposing powerhouse (YTZ) quite easily.

[ChronoReverse]

YJJ itself might be an exception actually. It's the 72 Arts that are definitely yang.

We've only seen three practicioners of YJJ and in 3rd edition it's been reduced to two.

YTZ was one. He had supremely yin poisonous internal energy due to a freak accident merging the extreme orthodox YJJ (this was changed to Yoga in 3rd edition apparently) and extreme heteorthodox ice worm poison. FZ was another and LHC was the last.


From the description of how YJJ works, I personally think that it's like BMSG and is therefore neutral with the ability to shift either way at will.

[augster123]

From the description of how YJJ works, I personally think that it's like BMSG and is therefore neutral with the ability to shift either way at will.

how was YJJ described that would lead u to think that it is neutral but can shift to Yin or Yang either way at will?

[Whsie]

*Aiyoh, I have to complete my rpg segment,but never mind, this seems interesting...*

I think(don't kill me, my opinion) you quite underestimated the power of the XuanMing elders here. They are very powerful exponents that ZWJ still has difficulty fighting them at the end of the novel...

If all four of them release their energies, you think its possible for ZWJ to absorb the most he can absorb and ignore the leftovers. In my opinion, no, he can't. If you get hurt while you are absorbing energies, the power absorbed would no longer be under your control. On the contrary, it gets turned against you. ZWJ would suffer a crushing defeat if he attempted this.

It is powerful of course(referring to the blast) but imagine all opponents are at different directions. If he were to unleash in one direction, he could only knock out one. If he threw it in all directions, the power would be much weakened. And still, I stand firm on my opinion that he cannot choose absorb only a certain amount of those energies, so in my opinion, this can't be done.

The book did mention that during that battle ZWJ can actually defeat the Xuanmin elders without much problem, but he still must be careful. It said that since ZWJ went through the battle against the 3 Du Generation monks, his martial art level increased again, so the Xuanmin elders are actually easier for ZWJ. And the 30 palms thing...., ZWJ needed only 20 something palm to beat Xuanmin elders in the 2nd fight . The only reason the elders didn't die was because ZWJ held back and even when he used 30% on one of the elders, that elder was already spitting blood out. And on that battle, ZWJ was only using QKDLY, not the 7th level. JY always mentions 7th level when ZWJ actually uses the 7th level. So what I think happened in the 3rd fight was that ZZR and ZM were messing around on his side that he had trouble focusing. Even against the Du Generation, ZWJ didn't use 7th level, so I have a feeling that it's mainly because of the 2 girls next to him bothering ZWJ that ZWJ needed 7th level. Against the Du Generation, it says only one of the highest level, not 7th level, so I presume it meant 5th or 6th level(because JY would say that ZWJ was using 7th level).

[ChronoReverse]

how was YJJ described that would lead u to think that it is neutral but can shift to Yin or Yang either way at will?

When you've mastered YJJ, even the tendons in your body can be manipulated. Something like merging the different streams of energy is possible.

With that level of manipulation, being limited to yang or yin seems rather unlikely.

[K2Grey]

When you've mastered YJJ, even the tendons in your body can be manipulated.

What does that imply for the... uh, Marrow Washing Sutra or whatever the counterpart to YJJ was?

[ChronoReverse]

We have no idea since I don't think anyone in JY's stories learn it =/

[CC]

What does that imply for the... uh, Marrow Washing Sutra or whatever the counterpart to YJJ was?

It allows you to activate the aimbot and wall-hack.

[augster123]

When you've mastered YJJ, even the tendons in your body can be manipulated. Something like merging the different streams of energy is possible.

With that level of manipulation, being limited to yang or yin seems rather unlikely.

merging the different streams of energy? ok that makes sense as we know LWC had the problem of having many different streams of energy floating in his body going crazy and YJJ helped stabilize it...but it still doesn't give the practitioner the will to manipulate the merge to shift into pure yang or pure yin energy right? like LWC just had neutral internal energy after learning YJJ correct?

hahaha honestly YJJ and its Marrow Washing Sutra sounds too imbalanced...

[PJ]

With the Great Universe Reversal (QKDNY), does it work if the opponent has more internal energy than the practioner?

[ChronoReverse]

They are the pinnacle of Shaolin's martial arts. And Shaolin's martial arts are already the pinnacle of wulin.

I don't mean to say that YJJ is yin or yang but rather that it doesn't matter. Energy is just unleashed easily and the power is like gigantic billow of a wave. LHC himself had multiple streams of energy in him of all sorts. YJJ allows him to merge it all.

With the Great Universe Reversal (QKDNY), does it work if the opponent has more internal energy than the practioner?

I personally think it would. Although it would be difficult to find an opponent with more internal energy than you if you were able to master level 7.

QKDNY is more than simply redirection of energy. The set allows one to easily see and understand the flow of energy in your opponent (one of the reasons ZWJ can assimilate new martial arts so easily). It also provides the tools to manipulate that energy. Since it doesn't take an equal force to simply move another force, there's no reason it can't work on a greater force. The effectiveness can be reduced and the effort required can be greater of course.

Besides, it's not like QKDNY ican only be used to redirect the energy straight back. You'd only need to make the enemy not hit you. This versatility is what makes me like it better than the Star Shifting Movement.

[PJ]

The combination of energies released by You Tanzhi, 2 Xuanming Elders, and the King of Green Bat, would definitely exceed Zhang Wuji's level in my opinion.

If they attack together, the Great Reversal of the Universe might not work that well. It would be fun to watch.

[augster123]

They are the pinnacle of Shaolin's martial arts. And Shaolin's martial arts are already the pinnacle of wulin.

I don't mean to say that YJJ is yin or yang but rather that it doesn't matter. Energy is just unleashed easily and the power is like gigantic billow of a wave. LHC himself had multiple streams of energy in him of all sorts. YJJ allows him to merge it all.

Yeah but going back to my earlier point, the type of internal energy YJJ produces does matter for ZWJ in this fight in that it determines whether he can absorb and redirect/unleash YTZ's internal energy with/without limit, using QKDNY level 7.
If YTZ's internal energy was Yang, then ZWJ can do it easily. If it was Neutral internal energy, then there's probably a limit but the limit is still not as bad as if YTZ's internal energy was Yin-based.

please note, i'm not at all doubting YJJ's ability to merge multiple stream of energies but i'm more interested in knowing what type of internal energy basis one, with no prior internal energy basis, will gain by practising YJJ.

[ChronoReverse]

Um, there's no indication at all of whether it matters at all what types of energy is being used against ZWJ.

QKDNY allows him to see how the energy is directed and he is able to manipulate that.

The combination of energies released by You Tanzhi, 2 Xuanming Elders, and the King of Green Bat, would definitely exceed Zhang Wuji's level in my opinion.

The combination is 100% greater than ZWJ. YTZ alone is a close match.

However, that won't matter if ZWJ simply redirects the two elders and the green bat into YTZ. And that doesn't seem impossible either. Luckily for ZWJ, YTZ isn't much of a martial artist.

[PJ]

However, that won't matter if ZWJ simply redirects the two elders and the green bat into YTZ.

That nice plan wouldn't work if You Tanzhi also attacked with the others, would it?

[ChronoReverse]

If that were the case, then ZWJ would see the poor three hurtling through the air at him and would just have to use his 9 Yang to jump really far (hey, even LHC could jump 20 feet after getting injured much less before being injured) to avoid the... explosions.


Then it's just 1 on 1 and at this point ZWJ has all the advantages.

[K2Grey]

I wonder if ZWJ could pull off the same thing that Yang Xiao did when he was meeting with those other Ming Cult members, just before Cheng Kun dropped in and spoiled the party. Where Yang Xiao matched palms with Wei Yixiao and 4 other lesser guys simultaneously. Wei Yixiao was nearly as good as Yang Xiao on his own, yet YX was winning because he was able to redirect Wei Yixiao and the 4 fighters's internal energies against each other.

Could ZWJ also do that here? Match inner power with all of them simultaneously, then redirect YTZ's energy against W1X and XM Elders, and vice versa. In both cases there is 1 guy who is on the same level, and a few more who are lesser. But ZWJ mastered QKDNY while Yang Xiao only has level 2.

[augster123]

I wonder if ZWJ could pull off the same thing that Yang Xiao did when he was meeting with those other Ming Cult members, just before Cheng Kun dropped in and spoiled the party. Where Yang Xiao matched palms with Wei Yixiao and 4 other lesser guys simultaneously. Wei Yixiao was nearly as good as Yang Xiao on his own, yet YX was winning because he was able to redirect Wei Yixiao and the 4 fighters's internal energies against each other.

Could ZWJ also do that here? Match inner power with all of them simultaneously, then redirect YTZ's energy against W1X and XM Elders, and vice versa. In both cases there is 1 guy who is on the same level, and a few more who are lesser. But ZWJ mastered QKDNY while Yang Xiao only has level 2.

perhaps within the Tai Chi martial arts concept, there is a way to draw/lure/friggin vacuum opposite energy forces towards u. you know...create some type of centrifugal force to lure the enemies palm towards ur palms.

either that or ZWJ would need to learn a similar move that Ren WoXing does in Swordsmen 2...you know that hugely exaggerated "Cup Sing Dai Faat" where u can suck enemies towards you?

[K2Grey]

Eh... I only saw Swordsman I (or at least I only saw one of them).

Is that the one which starts with some Japanese vs Chinese battle, and ends with a fight between (I assume) Linghu Chong and Dongfang Bubai where they fly around swinging naval masts at each other and shooting fire?

[augster123]

Eh... I only saw Swordsman I (or at least I only saw one of them).

Is that the one which starts with some Japanese vs Chinese battle, and ends with a fight between (I assume) Linghu Chong and Dongfang Bubai where they fly around swinging naval masts at each other and shooting fire?

there were japanese fighters in that movie...one japanese dude put up a noteworthy fight against Ren WoXing. His hand got sucked into RenWoXing's palm and it was gettin its nutrients and meat sucked dry, so he cuts his arm off. he still couldn't escape RenWoXing's sucking power and eventually got his head literally sucked off his body which i may say was WICKED! after watching that as a kid, i wanted to watch the tv adaptation and read the novel translation. needless to say i was quite disappointed, as the sucking power of "Cup Xing Dai Faat" was reduced to just sucking internal energy.

hmmm not sure about swinging naval masts at each other and shooting fire...
its the one where Jet Li is Linghu Chong. and the final battle involves DongFang Bubai fighting with sewing needles.