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Thread: Question(s) on Shi Po Tian's identity

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    Moderator kidd's Avatar
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    Default Question(s) on Shi Po Tian's identity

    In the 'Xia Ke Xing' story, there are a number of indications/clues that show SPT to be the 2nd son of Shi Qing and Min Rou.

    Here are the clues:
    - SPT and Shi Zhong Yu look very alike and can pass for twins.
    - SPT was rised by the woman who kidnapped and supposely killed the Shi couple's 2nd son.
    - SPT's adopted mother, Mei Fang Gu, called him 'gouzhazhong' which is equivalent to 'bastard' and MFG has always hated thet fact that Shi Qing chose Min Rou over her.
    - MFG also ill-treated SPT and sometimes talked to SPT like she was talking to Shi Qing.

    But there is one fact that can disprove the theory that SPT is the Shi couple's 2nd son.

    From Min Rou's account of the event of her 2nd son's kidnapping and eventual murder, MFG has sent back the corpse of Shi's 2nd son to the couple. If the corpse was a fake one, how can she not recognised it? How can she not recognised her own baby? She has been with him for 1 month already.

    P.S. I haven't finish reading XKX. So, I stand corrected.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

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    Senior Member Extremer88's Avatar
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    Most babies look alike, aren't they?

    There are numerous clues in the last chapter pointing out that SPT was indeed Shi Qing's and Min Rou's child.
    ..ext88

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    Moderator kidd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extremer88
    Most babies look alike, aren't they?
    Not to their own mothers. Min Rou has been seeing her baby for a month. Close up, from a distant, with clothes, without clothes, all she has seen. She should be able to recognise her own baby.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

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    Moderator kidd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extremer88
    There are numerous clues in the last chapter pointing out that SPT was indeed Shi Qing's and Min Rou's child.
    Other than Mei Fang Gu still a virgin, what other clues are there at the end that I left out? Please enlighten me.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

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    The fact that they can pass for twins is the big clue, the Doppelganger theory not withstanding. The baby corpse is just a red herring and plot device.

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    Moderator kidd's Avatar
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    Great explaination, CFT. Let's just write off all facts/clues that go against popular belief as red herring, plot device or plain mistake. Absolutely brilliant explaination.

    Still doesn't explain why Min Rou didn't recognise her own baby though.
    Last edited by kidd; 08-26-08 at 10:36 PM.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

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    Senior Member Extremer88's Avatar
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    Both Shi Potian and Shi Zhongyu have marks/scars on the bodies isn't it? I can't really remember were those marks birthmarks or were they implemented by Shi Qing/Min Rou/Mei Fangu?
    ..ext88

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    Moderator kidd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extremer88
    Both Shi Potian and Shi Zhongyu have marks/scars on the bodies isn't it? I can't really remember were those marks birthmarks or were they implemented by Shi Qing/Min Rou/Mei Fangu?
    Implemented by Mei Fang Gu, Ding Dang and a Snow Mountain Sect elder. None of them are birthmark or Shi family tatoo.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

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    Senior Member Extremer88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidd
    Implemented by Mei Fang Gu, Ding Dang and a Snow Mountain Sect elder. None of them are birthmark or Shi family tatoo.
    That means the baby SPT have no birthmarks, making it harder for Min Rou to differentiate the baby SPT and the given baby corpse?
    ..ext88

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    I still find it hard to believe that Min Rou didn't recognise her own baby, unless, the corpse's face was multilated.

    I can pick out my sister from a bunch of newborn babies in the baby room in the hospital after my mom gave birth to her.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

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    Senior Member Extremer88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidd
    I can pick out my sister from a bunch of newborn babies in the baby room in the hospital after my mom gave birth to her.
    Same with me, you just got that feeling in your heart saying, "Hey, that's my sister playing/sleeping with the other kids!"
    ..ext88

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    Senior Member AresInvincible's Avatar
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    So let me tell ya the right answer, since none of you seem to know....*trumpet plays* In the final chapter of XKX, both MR and SQ suddenly remember that when the infant was sent to them, his face was apparently destroyed by MFG. Even though he wore their 2nd son's clothing, his face was unrecognizable.

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    Implemented by Mei Fang Gu, Ding Dang and a Snow Mountain Sect elder. None of them are birthmark or Shi family tatoo.
    They both have identical markings on their bodies as adults because Bei Hai Shi put them on SPT to match with Shi Zhong Yu.

    Great explaination, CFT. Let's just write off all facts/clues that go against popular believe as read herring, plot device or plain mistake. Absolutely brilliant explaination.
    Ha ha. Call me a genius then if you mean it.

    But it looks like AresInvincible has provided the answer. But even if the baby was not mutilated, the fact that your enemy has killed your baby son and returned the body to you is such a traumatic experience that you probably would be able to identify the child. It gets reinforced if the child is wearing the same clothes.

    There are cases of family members failing to correctly identify dead relatives all the time - dead adults where there are aguably more identifying features.

    So is the failure to recognise a baby more likely than Mei Fang Gu being able to identify a suitable baby that would grow up to be the twin of Shi Zhong Yu?
    Last edited by CFT; 06-23-06 at 12:26 PM.

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    -------------------------------SPOILER------------------------------------







    Quote Originally Posted by CFT
    They both have identical markings on their bodies as adults because Bei Hai Shi put them on SPT to match with Shi Zhong Yu.
    I know that. I just don't want to write this out because I consider this a major spoiler of the story, more so that SPT = Shi Zhong Jian.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

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    Moderator kidd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CFT
    So is the failure to recognise a baby more likely than Mei Fang Gu being able to identify a suitable baby that would grow up to be the twin of Shi Zhong Yu?
    Dude, I also list down the supportive clues that are pro-SPT=SZJ.
    I'm not disregarding/dismissing other clues like u did.
    Didn't I say the look of SPT and how MFG treated him shows that he's most probably SZJ?
    I'm just trying to say amids all this telling clue, Min Rou not recognising her own child might be a stumbling block to this conclusion. (Now that AresInvincible has clarify the situation, it's not a stumbling block anymore).

    Must everything be either or?
    -"This clue doesn't support the overall argument and it's less likely that the other stronger clues. So, just write it off as plot-device/red herring/mistake. We don't need to discuss and think about it. Let us just concentrate on the ABC vs XYZ threads again. Those are way more fun."

    Your "There are cases of family members failing to correctly identify dead relatives all the time - dead adults where there are aguably more identifying features." argument is good though. That's the kind of argument I'm looking for. It does not dismiss the clue and explains why it is possible for MR to not recognise her child.

    Mei Fang Gu being able to identify a suitable baby that would grow up to be the twin of Shi Zhong Yu
    I can say MFG didn't plan to pick up a child that grow up to look like SZY. She just happen to pick up one. I mean, MFG has no hands in all the identity confusion that happen to SPT in the later stage of his life. (Btw, I know this is more unlikely, so, u don't need to point it out to me again.)

    Btw, SPT and SZY are NOT twins. They are at least 11 months apart. They look very alike but not carbon copy of each other. Their case is like my fratenal twin cousins. It's hard for people who don't see them everyday to tell who is who when they only see 1 twin alone. But when the sisters are standing side by side, u can easily tell them apart.
    Last edited by kidd; 08-26-08 at 10:38 PM.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

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    Quote Originally Posted by AresInvincible
    So let me tell ya the right answer, since none of you seem to know....*trumpet plays* In the final chapter of XKX, both MR and SQ suddenly remember that when the infant was sent to them, his face was apparently destroyed by MFG. Even though he wore their 2nd son's clothing, his face was unrecognizable.
    Thanks for the clarification.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

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    damn read the spoilers noooooooooooooooooooooooooo

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    Sorry to resurrect this, but I've been reading the translated OTG and I'm too impatient to wait for the next updates. How did Shi Potian get the bite marks from Ding Dang that were on Shi Zhongyu? From what I've gathered, the other marks were deliberately put there by Bei Haishi so SPT could more easily pass for the real thing for the intended purpose. But how did Ding Dang's bite mark get there?

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    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidd View Post
    Great explaination, CFT. Let's just write off all facts/clues that go against popular believe as read herring, plot device or plain mistake. Absolutely brilliant explaination.

    Still doesn't explain why Min Rou didn't recognise her own baby though.
    Look, this is Jin Yong! If dainty little Ah Zhu can disguise herself as Qiao "Big Brute" Feng and fool all his beggar buddies who had been facing life and death with him for years, how hard is it not to recognise your own dead infant eh?

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    Bumping so there's a non-SPW thread for discussion. How did Ding Dang's bite marks get on Shi Potian's shoulder, and if she put them there to make him look like Shi Zhongyu, why did she do so, knowing he wasn't her lover?

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