View Poll Results: who do you dislike the most?

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  • Yuan Chengzhi

    2 1.83%
  • Guo Jing

    5 4.59%
  • Chen Jialuo

    18 16.51%
  • Hu Fei

    2 1.83%
  • Xuzhu

    1 0.92%
  • Wei Xiaobao

    12 11.01%
  • Zhang Wuji

    19 17.43%
  • Yang Guo

    29 26.61%
  • Duan Yu

    12 11.01%
  • ANOTHER PROTAGONIST

    9 8.26%
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Thread: Who is, and why is he, the most hated protagonist by you?

  1. #1
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Default Who is, and why is he, the most hated protagonist by you?

    of Jin Yong's protagonists, which one do you dislike the most? and why? Well, vote first, and then feel free to comment.
    TC to Ken: "You need to watch the ending of ROCH 83."

  2. #2
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    This is just my personal preference.

    My vote goes to Shi Potian. I do have a strong affinity for the guy and his martial arts acquired at the end; however I found his other encounters quite frustrating to read through. Throughout the novel, he mostly fought mediocre fighters who had 10 times less internal energy than him, and he usually couldn't handle the situation very well. When he's not fighting, he's usually involved in some kind of misunderstanding or scam setup by others. His ignorance of the real world led to some slow passages that frustrated this reader.

    Xiao Feng once thought of a description that kind of captures my feeling about this kind of thing: 这等婆婆妈妈的无聊事,从前只要听见半句,立即就掩耳疾走。

    I prefer to think of Shi Potian in his peak martial arts glory.
    Last edited by PJ; 06-24-06 at 01:41 AM.
    TC to Ken: "You need to watch the ending of ROCH 83."

  3. #3
    Banned Tony Lam's Avatar
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    My vote goes to Guo Jing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laviathan
    I think every reader of the Condor Trilogy would agree that Guo Jing is a righteous, good person, a hero who deserves our respect. I will not argue this belief, for I feel the same way about him. But after careful reading of the novel, analyzing the details of Guo Jing's thinking pattern, I came to the conclusion that Guo Jing is a man with two faces: what we see at the surface is a heroic avatar of righteousness and virtue, while deep down inside is hidden a man with a very disturbing psychology.

    1. The first time we encounter Guo Jing as an active personage in the novel was when he, at the age of 6, saw the troops of Temujin's Borjigin tribe engage in combat with the Taichiut tribe. His initial reaction was fear: understandable, for he was just a 6 year old boy who had never seen a battle before. But when the fighting really began, young Guo Jing wasn't afraid anymore, on the contrary, the longer he watched the more happy he became. After returning home, he told his mother Li Ping the entire story, and he was extremely excited. Li Ping was happy to see that Guo Jing had inherited the martial attitude of his father. This clearly shows Guo Jing nature: he's not violent, but he does enjoy fighting. He finds it fascinating and thrilling. This was also apparent in later chapters like Chapter 17, when Zhou Botong taught Guo Jing the Left-Right Technique.

    After befriending Tulei, the two of them got into a fight with Dusi and his lackeys. Being outnumbered, Guo Jing pull out his dagger to protect himself and his friend. Because of the dagger, the Seven Freaks figured out he is the child they were looking for. The Freaks offered to teach the two boys martial arts, and Tulei happily accepted the offer. But Guo Jing gave a very strange answer: "Mother said that I may not fight with other people. If I learn skills to beat others, Mother will get angry with me." Now, we know that Guo Jing is a very brave boy who actually enjoys fighting, and if necessary he is not afraid to pull a dagger to protect himself. But when the Freaks offered to teach him fighting skills, he says that fighting is not correct… i.e. denying his own nature. For a 6-year-old boy who was almost beaten up by bullies, if offered the chance to become strong, he would most probably not decline… unless he is craven. And we know that Guo Jing is a brave lad. So his reaction is very unnatural.

    2. In Chapter 3, it is stated: "Guo Jing has often heard his mother's stories about the brutal Jins… In his little mind is a deeply rooted hatred against the Jins." Please note that Guo Jing was still 6 years old. He has never saw any Jins before, so could he have produced such genuine feelings of hatred? It seems awfully strange to me.

    3. In Chapter 4, when Ke Zhen'E asked who killed his father, his reaction was: Guo Jing grinded his teeth and said: "His name is… Duan Tiande!"… Ke Zhen'E deepened his voice and asked: "What would you do if you see Duan Tiande?" In Guo Jing's little eyes sparkled a flame of wrath, and he replied: "I will avenge my father and kill him."

    Now, he has never met his father and he never saw Duan Tande killing his father. He only heard stories from his mom. So even though on a rational level he knows he should consider Duan Tiande as an enemy, it is almost impossible for a 6-year-old to have nurtured true emotions of hatred, in my humble opinion.

    We all tend to see Guo Jing as a very nice person, a compassionate hero with great virtue. But when Guo Jing finally met his father's killer, the following happened:
    Guo Jing calmly looked at Duan Tiande from head to toe, and back again.

    After awhile, Guo Jing prepared an altar for his father.

    It scared the living daylights out of Duan Tiande… and he wetted his own pants. Guo Jing then asked: "Do you want to die a quick death, or would you like to be tortured first?"

    ... Is this really our hero Guo Jing?

    Many Jin Yong heroes had to avenge their fathers' deaths. But Guo Jing differs from from other male protagonists in that his vengeance was purely a product of indoctrination. The other heroes more or less chose to avenge their fathers, Guo Jing did not choose to do so but instead was given a mission. Also, Yuan Chengzhi wants to take revenge, but he does not hate Huang Taiji and Chongzhen. In fact, he respects Huang Taiji as a ruler, while he pities Chongzhen. Hu Fei respects Miao Renfeng. Yang Guo believed Guo Jing killed his father, but he still respected Guo Jing as a hero. The before-mentioned people all had moments in which they sympathize with their targets, seeing them not as monsters or villains but really as human beings. Guo Jing is the only hero who did not do so, he has always regarded Duan Tiande and Wanyan Honglie as devils.

    5. Another thing I feel many people fail to notice is that Guo Jing, compared to Xiao Feng, is a very "strange character". He grew up in Mongolia, but he did not adapt himself to Mongolian culture. Of course, his mother and teachers taught him about the Han ways, but it was still seven Han persons compared to thousands of Mongolians... Jin Yong seemed to have intended Guo Jing to be a model Confucianist hero and therefore neglected certain logical developments of human psychology and behaviour. That's why I feel Guo Jing is not as "real" as Xiao Feng, Yang Guo or Chen Jialuo.

    A good example would be: when Yang Guo proclaimed in public that he wanted to marry his teacher Dragon girl, Guo Jing immediately became enraged and saddened, even stating that he would rather kill Yang Guo himself instead of letting him commit such a huge crime. To Guo Jing, violating the Confucianist morals is an unspeakable, vile act.

    Yet, when Yang Guo introduced Dragon Girl to Khubilai Khan as his teacher and wife, the latter did not mind at all. It was explicitely stated by Jin Yong that Mongol society did not have any notion of considering teacher-student marriage as incestuous. And please note that, unlike Guo Jing (who enjoyed only minimal training in the civil arts) Khubilai was raised among and tutored by Confucanist scholars!

    So to me, Guo Jing's reaction was not only wrong, it is very strange and out of focus. It is like an Asian person growing up in Africa among black people, befriending them while at the same time being aware of his own ethnicity. This person later on returns to Asia and starts a family. Many years later still, his son tells him that he wants to marry a black woman. Dad then pulls a gun and threatens: "I'd rather kill you myself then allow you to do such a horrible thing." One word: INSANE.

    My point is: even if Guo Jing knows (rationally) that according to Han customs, marrying one's teacher is wrong, why is his reaction based on such genuine rage and dispair (emotions)? It just does not make sense.

    6. Another disturbing thing is: when his teachers were found dead on Blossom Island, Guo Jing started talking to himself: "I will not kill Rong'er... I will not kill Rong'er..." I'm sorry to say so, but what was he thinking? Is he trying to convince himself not to kill the girl he loves?Clearly so... But is he trying to quell his urge to kill with reason? Or is he trying to expel his logical choice of killing with feelings of love and affection? Either way, it proves that Guo Jing has a very disturbing psychology.

    Tom Clancy once said: "The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction has to make sense." That's my problem with Guo Jing, a lot of the time, Guo Jing's character does not make sense. Either he is a hero with psycho personality traits, or he is a novel character who is extremely out of focus.

    Compared to Guo Jing, Xiao Feng is much more real. Xiao Feng, Yang Guo and Chen Jialuo are all real human persons, while Guo Jing is in essence more like a robot who does things because he was programmed to do so.

    So, although LOCH is a great story, Guo Jing is IMO not a very good novel character. He really lacks depth.

    Chen Jialuo is not a very "likeable" character (i.e. popular amongst readers), but he was a very successful novel character (very well written with depth) in my opinion.

    When Chen Jialuo appeared in the novel, he seems a perfect leader, a perfect gentleman and a prince in shining armour. But later on, when we saw things from his POV, we realise how insecure and emotionally weak he really is. But because of the great expectations of the outside world, Chen has to keep up appearances, trying to conceal his doubts and fears, but by doing so he makes many mistakes which could have been avoided. Granted, I don't like him as a person myself, but I can really relate to him as a character. He is really a person of flesh and blood, and all his actions, his whole behaviour, it all makes sense (based on his psychology and emotional self, of course).

    I personally feel that Chen Jialuo and Yang Guo are the best written protagonists in Jin Yong's world. They both have flaws as human persons, yet they are perfect novel characters. We may disagree with a lot of their thoughts and actions, but by doing so, we are actually disagreeing with our own character flaws. That's why there are many people who TOTALLY LOVE Yang Guo, and many people who HATE HIS GUTS. Because Yang Guo can stir very extreme, very raw emotions and reactions from readers. Yuan Chengzhi, Guo Jing, Zhang Wuji... They are *just" good people, heroes. You may *like* them, but liking is not enough... A truly great novel character, IMO, has to either attract the reader's devotion and love, or sire fury and hate. Guo Jing does not do that... He makes you raise your thumb in the beginning, and later on have you frown your eyebrows.

    Basically, what I'm trying to say is, Jin Yong novels are great Wuxia literature (the best in its genre) but it is not great literature (it is good literature, but far from great). There are not many memorable heroes or villains to be found in the novels, not many well-written characters with great depth. While I can live with Yuan Chengzhi (his story is just a minor novel anyway) , I find Guo Jing extremely dissapointing. He appeared and played a major role in two novels, yet his character development was relatively weak. I guess that's why, at the end of LOCH, Jin Yong made Guo Jing ponder "Who am I?" as a reaction to the insane Ouyang Feng. It seems that Jin Yong himself is not clear about who his protagonist really is as a person... Guo Jing is too often just an avatar of the Powers of Good than a true human being.

  4. #4
    Senior Member shen long's Avatar
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    definately Duan Yu,keep chasing WYY almost all the time like a fool

  5. #5
    Senior Member Extremer88's Avatar
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    Zhang Wuji - so undecided on who he should be with , although it became very clear in the end who he wants to be with
    ..ext88

  6. #6
    Senior Member kidd's Avatar
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    Wei Xiao Bao because he's a rapist.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

  7. #7
    Senior Member dragonite3579's Avatar
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    how could anyone hate yang guo and wei xiao bao? lolxxxx
    just me opinion
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Da Bao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extremer88
    Zhang Wuji - so undecided on who he should be with , although it became very clear in the end who he wants to be with
    I entirely agree!! He made me so mad!! I partially blame him for turning ZZR crazy and evil!!

    how could anyone hate yang guo and wei xiao bao? lolxxxx
    just me opinion
    How can someone hate Yang Guo?
    I disliked him for having flirted with all those girls and making them fall in love with him. Then there's the scene with WYP... "Oh, she's got eyes like Gu Gu, so I'll kiss her eyes", which can be innterpretted to... "Wow, she's got a body like Gu Gu I'll just have $3X with her".
    And then, there's all those girls who love him so much, he should hurt their feelings or encourage them. Grrr... Stop pinning for your Gu Gu in front of those girls!!! If he loves his Gu Gu then stop beign with those girls and increasing their love for him! *coughs* Ahem, sorry....
    有缘千里来相会
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  9. #9
    Banned Tony Lam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da Bao
    How can someone hate Yang Guo?
    I disliked him for having flirted with all those girls and making them fall in love with him. Then there's the scene with WYP... "Oh, she's got eyes like Gu Gu, so I'll kiss her eyes", which can be innterpretted to... "Wow, she's got a body like Gu Gu I'll just have $3X with her".
    And then, there's all those girls who love him so much, he should hurt their feelings or encourage them. Grrr... Stop pinning for your Gu Gu in front of those girls!!! If he loves his Gu Gu then stop beign with those girls and increasing their love for him! *coughs* Ahem, sorry....
    That's how we do it.

  10. #10
    Senior Member dragonite3579's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da Bao
    I entirely agree!! He made me so mad!! I partially blame him for turning ZZR crazy and evil!!


    How can someone hate Yang Guo?
    I disliked him for having flirted with all those girls and making them fall in love with him. Then there's the scene with WYP... "Oh, she's got eyes like Gu Gu, so I'll kiss her eyes", which can be innterpretted to... "Wow, she's got a body like Gu Gu I'll just have $3X with her".
    And then, there's all those girls who love him so much, he should hurt their feelings or encourage them. Grrr... Stop pinning for your Gu Gu in front of those girls!!! If he loves his Gu Gu then stop beign with those girls and increasing their love for him! *coughs* Ahem, sorry....
    lol...but he's so nice...as i saw in roch....lolxxxxxxx
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  11. #11
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Why isn't Kiu Fung on this list? I wouldn't vote for him in this particular poll, but he shouldn't be left off.

  12. #12
    Senior Member 0-0-0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragonite3579
    how could anyone hate yang guo and wei xiao bao? lolxxxx
    just me opinion
    well, WXB is surely entertaining ... but i agree with kidd, he is a rapist. Maybe entertaining to watch and read about him, but it's very easy to hate him if you consider him from say, A ke's perspective before she fell in love with him

    My second vote would go to Duan Yu though, for being annoying and way too lucky

  13. #13
    Senior Member kidd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    Why isn't Kiu Fung on this list? I wouldn't vote for him in this particular poll, but he shouldn't be left off.
    Because no one hates him. Waste of space only putting him on the poll. I once started a 'Who Hates Xiao Feng' thread to see anyone can hate Xiao Feng or not and why. No Xiao Feng haters answered the thread. People who answered did not really hate Xiao Feng. They were either there to express more of their love for Xiao Feng or gave some instances in the book where they thought Xiao Feng's decision was wrong or gave possible reason why Xiao Feng might be hated by some (but they themselves didn't hate him).

    Most importantly, no more place to put him. Poll only allows 10 items.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

  14. #14
    Senior Member dragonite3579's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0-0-0
    well, WXB is surely entertaining ... but i agree with kidd, he is a rapist. Maybe entertaining to watch and read about him, but it's very easy to hate him if you consider him from say, A ke's perspective before she fell in love with him

    My second vote would go to Duan Yu though, for being annoying and way too lucky
    lol...ok but yg in my opininon is still not bad...lolxxxxxxxxx
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  15. #15
    Senior Member shen long's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidd
    Because no one hates him. Waste of space only putting him on the poll. I once started a 'Who Hates Xiao Feng' thread to see anyone can hate Xiao Feng or not and why. No Xiao Feng haters answered the thread. People who answered did not really hate Xiao Feng. They were either there to express more of their love for Xiao Feng or gave some instances in the book where they thought Xiao Feng's decision was wrong or gave possible reason why Xiao Feng might be hated by some (but they themselves didn't hate him).



    Most importantly, no more place to put him. Poll only allows 10 items.
    yeah , his only fault was probably killing Ah Zhu unintentionally.

  16. #16
    Senior Member dragonite3579's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shen long
    yeah , his only fault was probably killing Ah Zhu unintentionally.
    and it was an accident...lolxxxxxx
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  17. #17
    Senior Member 0-0-0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shen long
    yeah , his only fault was probably killing Ah Zhu unintentionally.
    i think he has more faults than that and XF has made some stupid decisions and done irrational things. Overall though, he is what i would deem to be one of the major 'heroes' in JY works, so obviously compared to other options in this poll, XF is unlikely to get any votes.

  18. #18
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidd
    Because no one hates him...
    You never know. There's always that one person who'll take the option just to be "weird."

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    You never know. There's always that one person who'll take the option just to be "weird."
    i thought it was usually done out of pity

    that's why i figured Guo Fu would get some votes in that favourite female character poll, but i guess no one pitied her

  20. #20
    Senior Member dragonite3579's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0-0-0
    i thought it was usually done out of pity

    that's why i figured Guo Fu would get some votes in that favourite female character poll, but i guess no one pitied her
    who pitiesher must be mad shes so wilful
    lollipops&raindrops (:

    'love me for me' ;D
    'you make me smile'
    'i love you, you idiot' o.0
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