"Sucking" internal energy martial arts not available in Condor Trilogy - WHY?

[minutemanwayne]

Laviathan how would you classify Shi Potians internal energy? He pracited a very dangerous way of cultivating yin and yang energy. Would his internal energy be neutral then?

[kyss of the sword]

shipotian acculimated high but equal amounts of both yin and yang, plus he drank the liquor of blue flame and dark ice, which combines yin and yang energy. so his energy combined to become a matchless and uncommon pure and neutral type of energy. the purity of his energy could only probably be matched by ZSF or the three du monks of HSDS. it was much purer then ZWJ's.

[Extremer88]

shipotian acculimated high but equal amounts of both yin and yang, plus he drank the liquor of blue flame and dark ice, which combines yin and yang energy. so his energy combined to become a matchless and uncommon pure and neutral type of energy. the purity of his energy could only probably be matched by ZSF or the three du monks of HSDS. it was much purer then ZWJ's.

SPT's internal energy purity equal to three Du Monks of HSDS? Hmm...

[HuangYushi]

shipotian acculimated high but equal amounts of both yin and yang, plus he drank the liquor of blue flame and dark ice, which combines yin and yang energy. so his energy combined to become a matchless and uncommon pure and neutral type of energy. ....

1. The liquor of blue flame and dark ice [Xuan2 Bing1 Bi4 Huo3 Jiu3 玄冰碧火酒] did not combine the yin and yang energy streams in Shi Potian's body. Instead, it increased the level of the energies themselves.

2. The harmonisation -- *not* "combination" -- of the yin and yang energy streams was caused by Zhan Fei striking Shi Potian on the Shan Zhong acupoint, which also forced Shi Potian to throw up the poisoned blood that had accummulated in his abdomen.

From OTG, Chapter 4:

Xie Yanke had harboured evil intentions when he taught the young man that set of high-level internal strength techniques in a disordered sequence. He had hoped that the yin and the yang energies in the young man's body would collide with each other at the point of mastery and cause the young man to die an incomparably cruel and miserable death. Then, he would not have been considered to 'place the strength of a finger' on him.

As for the young man, he had practised the techniques for several years until that day, when the yin and the yang energies began colliding with each other. He should have died without a doubt, but as luck would have it, Bei Haishi had appeared. The Physician Bei was skilled in the ways of healing. Coupled with his rich and profound level of internal strength, he had been able to protect the young man's Heart Channel on his behalf. Consequently, the young man's breathing had been temporarily sustained for a period of time.

After arriving at the headquarters of the Clan of Eternal Happiness, someone had visited the young man every night and fed him with doses of the stolen 'Liquor of Dark Ice and Blue Flame' (Xuan2 Bing1 Bi4 Huo3 Jiu3). Amazingly rare and valuable in the martial arts circle, the drink had suppressed the collision of the yin and yang energies in the young man's body. However, the strong and volatile properties of the herbs in the liquor had inadvertantly increased the level of the energy itself. When Zhan Fei struck the young man on the Shan Zhong acupoint, he had forced the opposing energies to harmonise, in the way that the dragon and the tiger had came together as one. At the same time, the young man was forced to throw up the poisoned blood that had accummulated in his abdomen. With water and fire blended, the two streams of pure yin and pure yang energies could no longer harm the young man's body. Instead, they had become a strange and unprecedented type of internal strength.

No one had ever dared to think of such a dangerous course in the practice of martial arts and the cultivation of internal strength. Even if Xie Yanke had a sudden change of heart in regret, or if Bei Haishi had wanted to save the young man's life with all his heart, none of them would have been bold enough to hit his chest with a hard and powerful strike of the palm.

Since this strange type of internal strength had developed through a series of accidents and misadventures that did not follow any coherent line of reasoning, it had not reached the point of complete fusion yet. Thus, there would still be occasions when it would rush through the young man's body without direction, and force his blood to toss and turn in his veins. Consequently, there were times when he felt like vomitting and others when he simply wanted to jump around in anxiety.

Note: "Harmonisation" gives the picture of two or more people/objects working together with each other as one, while "combination" gives the picture of things merging to become one totally new thing.

3. The description of Shi Potian's internal energy development that is stated in the quoted post and excerpt above happens in Chapter 4. It does not take into account:
(a) the Arhats' Divine Demon-Subduing Skill [Luo2 Han4 Fu2 Mo2 Shen2 Gong1 罗汉伏魔神功] - a set of extremely profound yet delicately subtle internal strength cultivation techniques which Shi Potian learns in Chapter 5.
(b) the effect of drinking Zhang San and Li Si's poison wines in Chapter 11.
(c) the effect of eating Laba Porridge in Chapter 19.
(d) the consequence of learning the Xia Ke Xing Skill in Chapter 20.

Therefore, the purity, neutrality and richness of Shi Potian's internal strength cannot to measured against the strength of the Du Monks of HSDS based on the information in Chapter 4 of OTG alone.

[ChronoReverse]

Since this strange type of internal strength had developed through a series of accidents and misadventures that did not follow any coherent line of reasoning, it had not reached the point of complete fusion yet. Thus, there would still be occasions when it would rush through the young man's body without direction, and force his blood to toss and turn in his veins. Consequently, there were times when he felt like vomitting and others when he simply wanted to jump around in anxiety.

This description of his lack of control alone indicates to me that his internal energy is far from pure. I dare say that while it was massive in quantity, it wouldn't even match YG's refinement.

I was referring to Chapter 28 of ROCH, in which Yang Guo and Dragon Girl used Reversed Nine Yin principles (or more accurately, Ouyang Feng's reversed meridian technique) to reverse the internal energy of Jade Maiden. And no, Jade Maiden is not just a sword technique.

I know about the energy part. I don't think anyone couldn't (what with the naked part and all). But that isn't really the primary aspect of Jade Maiden in my view. That said, I wonder if the technique could be powered by different internal energy.


In any case, the kind of theory you're talking about with the clause "if it works" simply isn't within the scope of the novels to even venture a guess. Even with you have ultimate skills with ultimate principles such as Tai Chi, it would take a genius several years in meditation to complete. Furthermore, until it's tested, no one would know if it would even truly work. And even when it works, it might not be as powerful as expected (or conversely more powerful than expected). Too many "what ifs" makes this worse than speculation.

What you're describing is a possible way to have a blended internal energy source. There's still no real reason to believe that it'll produce a sucking quality for anything other than 9 Yang style internal energy. Even if you blended two entirely different internal energy streams, that still doesn't mean attributes of one immediately apply to the other.

Martial art internal scripts are formulas where mistakes can kill a person. There are plenty of examples of this. QQDNY level 7 would've killed ZWJ had not his knowledge of the body been so high allowing him to bypass the errors. A mixed up 9 Yin (not really reversed) was barely made useable (and still tremendously dangerous) by OYF. Even if done properly the so-called fire-deviation is still an ever present danger.

5. Nine Yin is not neutral. In the 3rd editions, it is explicitely stated Nine Yin is a Yin type of internal energy.

I just thought of something. I thought that taoist couldn't read the sanskrit portion of 9 Yin. How would he know the main internal portion is yin? Shouldn't it only really be the lesser internal portions as well as the majority of techniques that would be yin?

[Black Night Sea]

XZ's case was like getting iron balls to merge by hammering them with big hammers until they fused.

The freezing that had occurred around Xuzhu did play a major role in merging those energies:

堅冰凝結，童姥和李秋水的內力就此隔絕，不能再傳到虛竹身上，但二人十分 之九的真氣內力，卻也因此而盡數封在虛竹體內
The solid ice condensed, thus TSTL’s and LQS’s energies were completely cut off from one another, unable to be transferred onto Xuzhu’s body anymore. But it was for this reason that ninety percent of their inner power are now entirely sealed into his body.

Also, the point where the energies were deadlocked stopped near the central area of Xuzhu’s body. If the energies of either side overpowered the other and shifted this point of deadlock beyond Xuzhu’s body then it’ll just be one person’s energy that’s entering into the anatomy of Xuzhu not two:

原來音姥和李秋水的真氣相持不下，又無處宣泄，終於和無崖子傳給他的內力歸並。三人的內力源出一門，性質無民，極易融合，
TSTL’s and LQS’s inner strength have finally merged with the inner power source that Wuyazi previously transferred onto him, after TSTL and LQS were stalemated in their respective inner power battle AND when there was no space for it to drain off. Their inner strengths originated from the same school and all three shared the same characteristics, fusion was therefore very straightforward.

So I guess it suggests that the Sankrit part is the Yang part (or else where would yang come from?) and it also tells how to mix yin/yang.

Well, the technique of Demon Subduing Fist (a hard yang technique that complemented his Vacant Fist) I guess would be listed alongside the soft yin techniques like 9 Yin Divine Claws, as ZBT had never actually practiced the Sanskrit preface.

[kyss of the sword]

After arriving at the headquarters of the Clan of Eternal Happiness, someone had visited the young man every night and fed him with doses of the stolen 'Liquor of Dark Ice and Blue Flame' (Xuan2 Bing1 Bi4 Huo3 Jiu3). Amazingly rare and valuable in the martial arts circle, the drink had suppressed the collision of the yin and yang energies in the young man's body. However, the strong and volatile properties of the herbs in the liquor had inadvertantly increased the level of the energy itself. When Zhan Fei struck the young man on the Shan Zhong acupoint, he had forced the opposing energies to harmonise, in the way that the dragon and the tiger had came together as one. At the same time, the young man was forced to throw up the poisoned blood that had accummulated in his abdomen. With water and fire blended, the two streams of pure yin and pure yang energies could no longer harm the young man's body. Instead, they had become a strange and unprecedented type of internal strength

the translation did say the inner power energy in him was pure yin and pure yang and when they merged, the power itself should be pure. the next part says that SPT's combined energy is pure.

Despite using all his strength earlier, Zhan Fei had failed to kill the clan-leader. Instead, he had been thrown out of the room by a pure and rich stream of internal strength. His right arm broken and his body racked with internal injuries, he had hoped for a quick death

.

The extraordinary power of that strike, as well as the sheer coincidence in its timing, had somehow caused the disparate yin-yang energies that had resulted from training in the eight yin and the eight yang channels to merge into one. With water and milk blended, there was no longer any separation between the cold and the hot streams of energy.

there is no difference anymore between the two pure streams of yin and yang energy in shi potian.

[Laviathan]

Laviathan how would you classify Shi Potians internal energy? He pracited a very dangerous way of cultivating yin and yang energy. Would his internal energy be neutral then?

Shi Potian's energy is very harmonious, very neutral. But this is not what I want, in this case, I want to try an even more dangerous way for cultivating energy, in order to create a tyoe of energy which is able to absorb like Beiming.

What you're describing is a possible way to have a blended internal energy source. There's still no real reason to believe that it'll produce a sucking quality for anything other than 9 Yang style internal energy. Even if you blended two entirely different internal energy streams, that still doesn't mean attributes of one immediately apply to the other.

Just brainstorming.

I just thought of something. I thought that taoist couldn't read the sanskrit portion of 9 Yin. How would he know the main internal portion is yin? Shouldn't it only really be the lesser internal portions as well as the majority of techniques that would be yin?

The Sanskrit portion of Nine Yin was about harmony of Yin and Yang. The inventor of Nine Yang also based his art on harmony of Yin and Yang (3rd edition). But the results are that Nine Yin is still more Yin, while Nine Yang is still more Yang.

[kyss of the sword]

i got a theory about 9yin which i may have already shared, but i'm not sure. so i share it anyway. o.k. wild speculation.

huang shnag originally created the sanskrit part as the base of his 9yin. when he learned about the various taoist philosophys and mastered his skills, he may have come across a scroll or parchment that contained a taoist idea of practising inner strenght but it was written in sanskrit because the guy who wrote it was from india who settled down in india and became a taoist.(happened quite often, like china absorbed buddhism). this theory formed the base and main part of haungshang's 9yin, later when he went to create an art to overcome the wide skills of his enemies, he created an inner power part for each skill. he ended up creating a yin type of inner power practise unintentionally. but the original part of his 9yin inner power was pure. only since haung shang was really old, he did not have time to properly translate it(9yin was already hard to understand, and part of HS's original 9yin was learned in sanskrit, he couldn't make the meaning clear when he tried to write that part in chinese) before he died so he wrote it in it's original sanskrit.

this theory would explain why 9yin's pure part was written in sanskrit.

[CFT]

More likely that since what we know as the Sanskrit part of the 9Yin manual is the key portion, WS encryted the original Chinese text by translating it into Sanskrit.

Regarding "sucking" - I think the 9Yang of ZWJ had this property because of resonance with the 9Yang-like energies practiced by the Emei and Wudang people.