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Thread: "Sucking" internal energy martial arts not available in Condor Trilogy - WHY?

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    Senior Member Extremer88's Avatar
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    Post "Sucking" internal energy martial arts not available in Condor Trilogy - WHY?

    While the Condor Trilogy (LOCH, ROCH and HSDS) remains one of Jin Yong greatest works. Something is lacking in these three novels, those powerful martial arts that could suck or dissipate opponent's internal energy (Beiming Shengong, Huagong Dafa, Xixing Dafa). It would be wonderful if the Greats knew how to "suck", but no these type of martial arts did not appear in LOCH, ROCH and HSDS.

    While many people have noted that the Condor Trilogy Greats are much more talented than the pugilists from DGSD, did the presence of "sucking" and "dissipate" martial arts ever crossed these Great's mind? Did they every think that "sucking" people's martial arts is possible?

    While Ouyang Feng and Yang Guo knew how to "逆转" their internal energy flow, they do not knew how to "suck".

    Zhou Botong being a martial arts freak who love martial arts very much, has it crossed his mind that, perhaps people could "suck" or dissipate" internal energy from people?
    ..ext88

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    Senior Member Temujin's Avatar
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    Simple answer, Jin Yong had not thought about "sucking" internal energy martial arts, XAJH and TLBB were written later on in his career.
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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Temujin
    Simple answer, Jin Yong had not thought about "sucking" internal energy martial arts, XAJH and TLBB were written later on in his career.
    Also, I think Jin Yong wanted to reserve some of those more "far out" martial arts for the worlds of DGSD (and to a lesser extent, SOD). In THE CONDOR HEROES TRILOGY, Jin Yong was still favoring somewhat more realistic (relatively speaking) martial arts.

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    Senior Member Extremer88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Temujin
    Simple answer, Jin Yong had not thought about "sucking" internal energy martial arts, XAJH and TLBB were written later on in his career.
    He did revise two times, or maybe Jin Yong doesn't want to make LOCH, ROCH, HSDS as awesome as DGSD?
    ..ext88

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    Senior Member Extremer88's Avatar
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    Did Zhou Botong and the rest of the Greats ever thought of something like "sucking" people internal energy? Given their talent, they could have imagined something like that.
    ..ext88

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    Quote Originally Posted by Extremer88
    He did revise two times, or maybe Jin Yong doesn't want to make LOCH, ROCH, HSDS as awesome as DGSD?
    As big of a change possibly, JY can't go out there COMPLETELY changing the art. If you look at every revision, there is some sort of old connection to the new one. If JY suddenly added XXDF or Bei Ming in trilogy, then the writers would be like wtf? Where did this art all of a sudden appear from? The main arts even if changed, can't be changed that much (even the revision of XL18Z to XL28Z has some sort of a connection and it's certainly not random, giving XL18Z a little history).

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    Senior Member Extremer88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whsie
    As big of a change possibly, JY can't go out there COMPLETELY changing the art. If you look at every revision, there is some sort of old connection to the new one. If JY suddenly added XXDF or Bei Ming in trilogy, then the writers would be like wtf? Where did this art all of a sudden appear from? The main arts even if changed, can't be changed that much (even the revision of XL18Z to XL28Z has some sort of a connection and it's certainly not random, giving XL18Z a little history).
    I didn't suggest adding, I mean maybe Beiming Shengong or Huagong Dafa being mentioned in Condor Trilogy may let Zhou Botong and the others have the impression that these awesome "sucking" martial arts exists and they never had the chance to personally "see" or "encounter" them.
    ..ext88

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    Since all sucking arts are from/derived from xiaoyao, you can't mention one without the other.*

    *Well there is DY which I assumed was the Duan that created it from beiming. Since the Duan line is still in the first 2 parts of the trilogy, xixing dafa should be there like 6msj should ...

    Actually what was the point of DY creating xixing dafa when beiming is better. Only reason I could think of is ones own created arts can be passed down, but the principales still come from an xiaoyao so my explaination is no go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Extremer88
    I didn't suggest adding, I mean maybe Beiming Shengong or Huagong Dafa being mentioned in Condor Trilogy may let Zhou Botong and the others have the impression that these awesome "sucking" martial arts exists and they never had the chance to personally "see" or "encounter" them.
    Even mentioning would be a pretty big change. Part reason why the sucking arts didn't exist is because of XAJH and TLBB being written later. This suggests that JY didn't think of sucking arts earlier when he wrote the trilogy.
    The new editions are to add and correct some historical stuff. Some is to make the story flow better. Some are to make the stories more interconnected.

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    TommyH
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    Maybe JY is trying to hint that people from the Condor Trilogy era simply isn't as powerful at people from the DGSD and SOD era?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyH
    Maybe JY is trying to hint that people from the Condor Trilogy era simply isn't as powerful at people from the DGSD and SOD era?
    No, I just think that JY just didn't think of sucking internal arts then. XAJH and DGSD is written later.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyH
    Maybe JY is trying to hint that people from the Condor Trilogy era simply isn't as powerful at people from the DGSD and SOD era?
    It would make sense for DGSD (Deterioration Theory and all that), but it doesn't make sense in SOD.

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    Senior Member kyss of the sword's Avatar
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    sucking martial arts were not common and dangerous to learn. the skill was recorded in the duan faamily royal library but not practised by any of duan yu's desendents. later a scholar got hold of it. and it was revived in SPW. all through the condor trilogy, it was in the duan family library. but sucking energy was not completely missing. ZWJ benefited from meijiu's strike by taking her energy as his own.
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    Senior Member Laviathan's Avatar
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    Actually, in Chapter 22 of HSDS, Wuji did absorb the energy of his kungfu uncles. His uncles have opened their energy points to help heal Wuji, but immediately the more dominant Nine Yang power source within Wuji's body pulled their energy streams towards itself. Wuji then awoke and returned the power to his uncles, but in fact he could have absorbed all their internal power by force if he wanted to.
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    Senior Member Exodus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laviathan
    Actually, in Chapter 22 of HSDS, Wuji did absorb the energy of his kungfu uncles. His uncles have opened their energy points to help heal Wuji, but immediately the more dominant Nine Yang power source within Wuji's body pulled their energy streams towards itself. Wuji then awoke and returned the power to his uncles, but in fact he could have absorbed all their internal power by force if he wanted to.
    but i doubt zwj would have got a permanent boost from it...

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    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    Why would you doubt that? It was stated that the martial uncles would lose their internal energy entirely if it had continued. It also stated that after ZWJ sent it back, he gave back a little more and that the martial uncles would benefit from it.

    Clearly 9 Yang has an effect where a greater practicioner of it can overcome and take a lesser practicioner of the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChronoReverse
    Why would you doubt that? It was stated that the martial uncles would lose their internal energy entirely if it had continued. It also stated that after ZWJ sent it back, he gave back a little more and that the martial uncles would benefit from it.

    Clearly 9 Yang has an effect where a greater practicioner of it can overcome and take a lesser practicioner of the same.
    so now zwj can suck internal energy from others that have less energy than he has

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    Senior Member Laviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exodus
    so now zwj can suck internal energy from others that have less energy than he has
    Which is EXACTLY the idea behind Beiming Shengong, thank you very much...
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    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    But only if they're both using 9 Yang. Try not to miss the whole point.

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    Senior Member Laviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChronoReverse
    But only if they're both using 9 Yang. Try not to miss the whole point.
    Exactly. Basically, what happened with Wuji and his uncles (Nine Yang) was a Xuzhu/Tonglao/Li Qiushui (Xiaoyao) scenario.
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