Xiao Feng vs. Dugu Qiubai

[Whsie]

Btw, just for those out there.
What I have been saying after explaining for 4 times (seems like some don't understand what I'm saying)
DGQB>YG in internal. That is all I dare to say, no more about the external.
I dare to link internal with sword level based on this: 将来内力日长，所用之剑便可日轻，终于使木剑如使重剑，那只是功力自浅而深，全仗自己修为，至于剑术，却至此而达止境。
But external, I dare to say nothing.
That quote is implying that as your internal gets higher, you get closer and closer to be able to use a wood sword like a heavy iron, in other words, internal does play a part in what level of sword you're on.

[kyss of the sword]

I'm still insisting that YG only mastered Wood Stage half way because of the bolded part above. According to what is said, YG is suppose to use wood sword like a heavy iron sword if he were to have fully mastered the wooden stage.
Since you should be able to use a wooden sword like a heavy iron sword, then why did his sword broke TWICE? If YG really had used his heavy iron sword, I'm sure JLFW wouldn't be able to break through Heavy Iron

the reason YG's sword broke was JLFW's inner strenght had improved tremendously too. besides, when JLFW's two wheels struck YG, they flew out of his hands and killed some mongolian soldiers. it was a mutual lose in that move. JLFW had three wheel left and he used those to fight YG, but YG did not have any other weapon. if he had the heavy sword, he would have used wood sword level with the heavy sword and defeated JLFW easily. if they had used equal weapons, neither weapons would have broken or both would have.

IMHO, all speculation.

Like Whsie said, YG did not venture further into swordplay and has yet to reach the stage of wooden sword level. Besides, inner energy may prove useful into swordplay, but it can only bring you this far. Swordplay is swordplay, people who went berzerk trying to delve into the depths of ultimate mastery of the sword, explore the techniques, not just practise inner energy. There's no reason how you could link the level of YG's swordplay with his internal energy, it's just like comparing apples to oranges. No offence.

PS. How are you so sure each level in X2 stronger than the previous, anyway..

of couse it is all speculation, no one here is jin yong, we only give our opinions based on our interpetation of the novels or the translations.

Since that day he trained his sword technique and internal energy everyday. Every time it rained, he went to the river to practice. Summer came, and summer went. Next autumn came, and autumn went. After autumn came winter. Xiao Long Nuu had been gone for almost a year. He felt that in that one year not only his internal energy got stronger, but his swordsmanship also improved tremendously.
One winter day he was sitting around, feeling self-pity. Suddenly he saw the snow was falling slowly in the air, soft like goose down. The Condor was excited; it created a loud noise and ran toward a clearing in front of the cave. It then flapped its wings, forcing the snow to scattered.

{there is a discrepancy here between wuxiapedia post and spcnet. in wuxiapedia, YG did not improve when using wood sword till he trained in the snow}

So it was, he practiced hard day and night, even in his dream. He always pondered his sword technique: how to fend off an attack, how to thrust the sword, and how to increase his energy. In his busyness he wasn’t burdened by his grief anymore. In the mean time, the Passionless Flower poison has been completely eradicated, which made his strength increased and his countenance shone like it used to

YG improved both his inner power and sword technique at the same time. his sword techniques from then on were inner power based, so the better inner power, the better sword moves he can create/use.

He repeated this until the tide calmed; by then he was so exhausted that his face had turned white. When the tide came again that night, he took the wooden sword with him and leapt into the waves to again train his sword skills. However, unlike the mountain torrents where all he had to contend with was the force of the water heading in one direction, the forces of the waves came from everywhere; whenever he could not take it any longer, he would dive down to the sea bed to avoid the waves

Spring came and went, summer and autumn too. Time flew fast. Everyday, noon and midnight, rain or shine, Yang Guo trained under the tidal waves. The longer he trained, the louder his wooden sword roared, until he reached a level where the roar was so loud it hurt his own ears. Several months later, the roar was getting softer and softer, until it was so quiet that he could not hear anything. Yet the next several months came and went, the roar was getting louder again. From loud, it became quiet; from quiet, it became loud. After this cycle was repeated seven times, his energy had reached a level where he could make his sword loud or quiet at will. To reach this level, Yang Guo had spent six full years. Now every time the waves came crashing, he was able to force them back. In their training, the Condor was never able to hold Yang Guo for more than three stances

in the sea the waves were stronger and came at him from all directions. he had to improve his inner power usage as well as his sword technique to repel the waves. YG mastered the heavy sword in about a month but it took six yrs in the seas to get close to DGKB. if not X2 heavy sword, then it must be X3.

when YG secretly helped guo xiang in the temple, no one could guess who was higly skilled enough to have saved her.

Huang Rong was slightly surprised, and then she heard someone running round the mountain. Then she thought, “Sounds the same as ‘Yang Hu’ but uses different characters? Could it be ‘Yang Guo’? No, no way. Even if Guo’er’s martial arts have improved, it can’t have reached such an unimaginable level. This person couldn’t be saying that it sounds the same but uses different characters.”

she had seen for herself the improvement YG achieved and heard how he defeated JLFW at mt zhongnan, but still couldn't belive he could reach such a level. this shows that YG's improvement from training in the sea was by several levels. enough so the improvement was unimaginable even to someone as intelligent as huang rong.

[Phoenix_Aquaris]

of couse it is all speculation, no one here is jin yong, we only give our opinions based on our interpetation of the novels or the translations.

You misunderstand me. What I meant by speculation was that your opinions were pretty much based on conjecture in my opinion. Firstly, I don't know how you derive at the fact each level is X2 stronger than the previous level. Of course, we are not JY and our opinions come from our own interpretations, but that doesn't mean you can say DGQB is X2 stronger than YG because of this..

I think I sounded rude, but in fact, I'm not..

I dare to link internal with sword level based on this: 将来内力日长，所用之剑便可日轻，终于使木剑如使重剑，那只是功力自浅而深，全仗自己修为，至于剑术，却至此而达止境。

Of course, it does assist you on using Heavy Iron Sword, the power of this particular swordplay relies on internal energy/ raw power.

I believe DGQB never intended for wooden sword to behave like Heavy Iron Sword, his internal energy could come in useful adding power into his swordplay. But the above bolded part which I made, made it clear(at least to me) that the benefits of having abundant internal energy all depends on the person's cultivation.

The underlined part mentioned that his swordplay has reached that particular level at that point. You can link them, but as I said, internal energy cultivation could only bring you this far. How powerful your internal energy is, it doesn't assist you in reaching a higher level in your swordplay, it just makes you more powerful.

Take for example, Taichi swordplay. A person who barely practised any internal energy could be able to unleash the power of the swordplay. After all, the power of the sword comes from its intent. To become one with your sword, internal energy is unnecessary. You may link the two, but the power of using both internal energy and a certain standard at swordplay is pretty limited compared to the true intent of the sword, which is boundless.

IMO, a person who understands a great deal about sword intent, without much internal energy can defeat a person who reached a certain swordplay level with astounding internal strength. This is the amazing thing about sword that causes so many swordsmen to become insane, it is like science, there is so much yet to be explored, linking it to something superficial in this field as though they were interconnected would only prevent one to reach further into swordplay, hindering one's journey to true swordsmanship if he was to judge his sword level by his own internal energy cultivation.

Oops.. Ranting too much than usual.. Hehe

[CC]

IMO, a person who understands a great deal about sword intent, without much internal energy can defeat a person who reached a certain swordplay level with astounding internal strength. This is the amazing thing about sword that causes so many swordsmen to become insane, it is like science, there is so much yet to be explored, linking it to something superficial in this field as though they were interconnected would only prevent one to reach further into swordplay, hindering one's journey to true swordsmanship if he was to judge his sword level by his own internal energy cultivation.

Oops.. Ranting too much than usual.. Hehe

No I don't agree. At the higher levels, the person and the sword are one. So if the person is weak(inner energy), the sword is consequently weak too.

At the highest level, there is no person, there is no sword. Your Zen power has caused the bullcrap meter to break down because you have unlimited potential internal strength and can jump over oceans (a feat which Shi PoTian CANNOT do).

[Phoenix_Aquaris]

No I don't agree. At the higher levels, the person and the sword are one. So if the person is weak(inner energy), the sword is consequently weak too.

At the highest level, there is no person, there is no sword. Your Zen power has caused the bullcrap meter to break down because you have unlimited potential internal strength and can jump over oceans (a feat which Shi PoTian CANNOT do).

To become one with the sword, you don't need internal energy IMO. There is no need for internal energy to assist you in your quest to do so. Internal energy is definitely important for any martial arts pugilist, but that because it is the foundation for any person in Jiang Hu. The sword may be weaker compared to people who have strong internal energy, but if a person reach a certain high level, his martial arts would depend on the mastery of swordplay, not the internal energy.

This may be the exception for certain swordplay which required internal energy, eg. Heavy Iron Sword, as the key to this swordplay is internal energy. For wooden sword, Taichi sword or other kinds of swordplay, internal energy may prove useful, but it is definitely not another factor to determine how high your level of mastery of the sword is. It merely boosts your overall prowess, with increased stamina, strength and the ability to perform other feats.

Of course, a person with extremely good sword skills cannot challenge an ocean-jumper..

[Whsie]

Well, mastery to certain stages does require a certain amount of internal. If you didn't reach that needed amount of internal, you can't advance to a stage(like a prerequisite). 2 examples are YG and DY. YG obviously couldn't use Heavy Iron before having a sudden internal boost because first he didn't have the internal to lift such a heavy sword and second, didn't have the internal to wisely use the sword. The wooden sword is in a similiar case. Why is 6 Meridian Sword so insanely strong when mastered? That's because 6 Meridian Sword has to let you get to the "minimum required" internal to use no sword overcome sword. And that minimum requirment is insanely high.
The internal and sword technique may not be directly linked. Like HYS is only like at stage 1, but his internal is enough to get him to stage 2.5 or in kyss of sword's opinion, Stage 3/wooden stage. However, if a person was to have understood the the sword principles and decided to concentrate on sword, he has to have a minimum internal to reach to a certain level. So the internal and sword technique are linked IF only the practicioner decides to learn different sword levels. In that case, we could use what sword level the fighter is on to compare their internal. And due to YG's unsuccessful case against JLFW, I presume YG didn't master wood stage. And DGQB did. So that is why I believed DGQB>YG. Mastered wood stage means use wood sword like heavy iron, but even a regular sword broke, while in a case against JLFW the Heavy Iron wouldn't.

[Phoenix_Aquaris]

Well, mastery to certain stages does require a certain amount of internal. If you didn't reach that needed amount of internal, you can't advance to a stage(like a prerequisite).

For DGQB I understand, he took on the route of using internal energy in his swordplay given his abundant internal. But what makes you think it is a must to advance to that particular stage in the first place?

You could by all means develop another sword style that depended entirely on the principles and the concept behind it, a swordplay that suited the use of a user who has little internal, and there are many of such swordplays in the world. Using internal energy to wield a heavy giant iron sword, and unleashing formless sword qi using internal energy are just some alternatives. Is swordplay really so dependent on internal energy?

The internal and sword technique may not be directly linked. Like HYS is only like at stage 1, but his internal is enough to get him to stage 2.5 or in kyss of sword's opinion, Stage 3/wooden stage. However, if a person was to have understood the the sword principles and decided to concentrate on sword, he has to have a minimum internal to reach to a certain level. So the internal and sword technique are linked IF only the practicioner decides to learn different sword levels. In that case, we could use what sword level the fighter is on to compare their internal. And due to YG's unsuccessful case against JLFW, I presume YG didn't master wood stage. And DGQB did. So that is why I believed DGQB>YG. Mastered wood stage means use wood sword like heavy iron, but even a regular sword broke, while in a case against JLFW the Heavy Iron wouldn't.

The reason why I said internal energy and swordplay are not linked can be based on your quote above. YG has not yet mastered Wooden Sword Stage, but I believe his pro-16 years abundant internal energy makes him wield something light like a wooden sword like a Heavy Iron Sword, however, was he able to use wooden sword level? Not yet. He didn't practise the skill, nor did he actually went to try taking on the journey of understanding more about this particular swordplay. Does having abundant energy equates to having the ability to use swords at a higher level? Definitely not, and I wouldn't say he would be able to learn that particular sword level totally even if he did try to practise. Swordplay has been proven by many swordsmen, that it is such a versatile skill it could be based on almost everything.

[aniking_8]

In DGQB early ages he would slice off XF arms with DG9S before XF even uses his slow TL28.

[shortsight]

In DGQB early ages he would slice off XF arms with DG9S before XF even uses his slow TL28.

Wow, you have just introduced two new arts, DG9S and TL28??!!

[aniking_8]

Wow, you have just introduced two new arts, DG9S and TL28??!!

TL28 is actually the Dragon 18 subducing palms in DGDS while DG9S is the sword techniques learn by LHC in SPW also created by DGQB.

[flamer]

TL28 is actually the Dragon 18 subducing palms in DGDS while DG9S is the sword techniques learn by LHC in SPW also created by DGQB.

I think shortsight was referring to your abbreviations. XL18Z and DG9J are the normal ways of abbreviating. I can see your DG9S = Dugu 9 Swords, but I dun quite get TL28Z either..

[kdonggyu94]

Dugu Qiubai would defeat Xiao Feng. Dugu is right up there with Sweeper.

[forgot password]

Unless the opponent is of Supermonk's caliber, Xiao Feng will Dragon-palm the living crap outta him/her. Unfortunately, Dugu is light-years below Supermonk.

[jackattack]

Unless the opponent is of Supermonk's caliber, Xiao Feng will Dragon-palm the living crap outta him/her. Unfortunately, Dugu is light-years below Supermonk.

If you look at the voting results, 80 percent of the people here agree that Demonic Swordsman Dugu Qiubai would make Xiao Feng cry for his mama by whipping Xiao Feng in the butt with a piece of grass.

[kdonggyu94]

Unless the opponent is of Supermonk's caliber, Xiao Feng will Dragon-palm the living crap outta him/her. Unfortunately, Dugu is light-years below Supermonk.

first of all, its sweeper, not super. this isn't DC comics, its Jin yong.

second of all, how do you know that Dugu Qiubai isn't up there with Sweeper? thats right, you don't know. Exactly.

So next time before you make a statement like :" xiao feng will Dragon-palm the living crap outta everyone," try to think a little bit more clearly.

by the way, Dugu Qiubai would destroy Xiao Feng in a fight, and 8 out of 10 people here agrees with my statement.

[Trien Chieu]

Dugu Qiubai would beat XF within 20 moves, perhap in less than 10 moves. Dugu QiuBai is at least at the sweeper monk level if not better. Dugu Qiubai would beat sweeper monk for sure if he mastered his father martial art, demonic bloody claw. Too bad Dugu didn't have a chance to learn it from his father.

[Ken Cheng]

Dugu Qiubai would beat sweeper monk for sure if he mastered his father martial art, demonic bloody claw. Too bad Dugu didn't have a chance to learn it from his father.

Say what?

[devilz91]

Looks like we are entering the realm of fan fiction now.

[QF]

Say what?

TVB series with Felix Wong. 'Nuff said.


QF

[kdonggyu94]

Dugu Qiubai would beat XF within 20 moves, perhap in less than 10 moves. Dugu QiuBai is at least at the sweeper monk level if not better. Dugu Qiubai would beat sweeper monk for sure if he mastered his father martial art, demonic bloody claw. Too bad Dugu didn't have a chance to learn it from his father.

more like in around 5 moves