Xiao Feng vs. Dugu Qiubai

[Dennis Chen]

Both considered the best. Who takes it?

[Whsie]

DGQB wins. For the 3rd time- DGQB has supreme formlessness in style. Has superior internal than ROCH Greats who are~DGSD 4 Elite. Superior internal because at fully mastered wooden stage which YG has yet to master because YG still needs more internal to master the wooden stage. Since DGQB is>YG. And YG is ~ XF. Then DGQB is > than XF. Some people might say XF can use his warrior spirit to beat his opponents. However, that would only help XF to a certain extent. If your opponent is too superior, then no matter how much warrior spirit you have, you still lose. I dare to say DGQB has considerably stronger internal because each sword level has huge gaps in internal to reach the next level. Even if YG only mastered half of wooden. That only half level is still big enough to beat XF seeing how 6MSJ compares to the other arts and how Heavy Iron compares to regular sword.

[Extremer88]

Both considered the best. Who takes it?

SM could pwn them easily.

And YG is ~ XF.

Are you kidding?

[Whsie]

sigh.... some views NEVER change. When Hanky Panky gave me significant BOOK evidence, I was finally convinced about JY's comment XF having a better palm that the other XL users.

[Extremer88]

sigh.... some views NEVER change. When Hanky Panky gave me significant BOOK evidence, I was finally convinced about JY's comment XF having a better palm that the other XL users.

What happened?

Of course, XF's XL18Z is better than the other XL18Z users. And XF ~ YG is a bit underrating XF.

[Whsie]

What happened?

Of course, XF's XL18Z is better than the other XL18Z users. And XF ~ YG is a bit underrating XF.

Even though I accepted XF having better XLP than others, that does not mean that I say that XF's palm overwhelms the others either. Anyway, this is not a XLP vs XLP thread. XF~YG. Even if you think XF is a bit better than YG(maybe we should bump that XF vs. YG thread), DGQB's master of wooden stage suggests that DGQB is considerably stronger than YG. Even half a sword stage, the internal required to get the other half is huge. That's why DGQB should have considerably higher internal.

anyway, if you want to know my opinion on YG vs. XF. I think XF is indeed stronger, but not that much. In terms of actual arts, YG should have stronger arts. But XF makes it up with warrior spirit which could make XF victorious. But the point is, XF is ~ YG.

[AnhHung]

Do we have any "proof" of DGQB skills? This character is for me somewhat too mystical to compare to "real" characters.

[K2Grey]

Well, DGQB should at least be significantly better than YG. That should be enough to show that DGQB >= XF.

[duguxiaojing]

Hard to say when we havent seen DGQB fight... XF is a proven fighter as some have already mentioned...but from what we've seen from LHC and YG, DGQB was proboally no push over.

[Whsie]

MAN! are my posts even read??? I wrote DGQB wooden stage compared to YG half wooden stage 3 times in 2 days! Simple form: Style-Supreme Formlessness. Internal: considerably higher internal than ROCH Greats because YG is only at 2.5 while DGQB has reached 3 which is Wooden stage. Half level is a lot of difference in internal. DGQB>that Greats/Elites in internal. For more detailed, look at post 2.

[Black Night Sea]

This is probably the closest comparison that perhaps exists for these 2 undefeated fighters:

(Should not be) XF’s full extent of his qing gong capabilities:
他托著那子的身軀，發足便往山壁上奔去。山壁陡峭之極，本來無論如何攀援 不上，但蕭峰提氣直上，一口氣便沖上了十來丈，見有一聲凸出的石頭，便將那矮子放在石上，
….He accelerated right up against the mountain cliff. The cliff was extremely steep to the point where it’s unscalable no matter what…still XF soared up over a hundred feet in a single breath. Noticing a piece of rock protruding outwards from the cliff, he placed that short man there…

Geological and geometric aspects of this cliff:
- The surface of the cliff was smooth as a baby’s bottom.
但觸手處盡是光溜溜地，哪里依附得住
- The steep inclination of the cliff was equivalent to that of a wall.
在這陡峭如牆的山壁疾沖下來，比之上去時更快更險

The limitations of DGQB’s qing gong (the actual value maybe lesser):
峭壁中部離地約二十餘丈處，生著一 塊三四丈見方的大石，
…The central part of the cliff was approximately a little over two hundred feet off the ground where a large piece of rock, thirty to forty sq. feet in area, extended outwards from there…

That platform situated midway through the cliff was where Dugu Qiubai assembled his sword grave. The method used to get up there was creating foot-sized niches aligned a few feet between each other.

" " ":
- The surface has also been described to be very smooth which makes it unclimbable. 但見石壁草木不生，光禿禿的實無可容手足之處, 不知當年那人如何攀援上去。
- But no information given on the flatness.

There’s no evidence that establishes Xiao Feng could only reach “over 10 zhang“, but we’re sure that even Mr. Dugu’s limit is somewhere around 20 zhang. Then again that’s just the height of the cliff which DGQB left his sword grave in, as brilliant as his sword technique is, it’s unknown whether he could dash up a cliff and reach 10 zhang off the ground. “Over 10 zhang” is the distance that XF successfully ascended to purely on kung fu. Impediment in his true speed from the increase in total body weight from carrying another person was also what XF had to deal with.

I can understand that there could be a certain plateau or definitive limit that exists once someone reaches a decent level in qinggong like with palm energy (5 zhang rule). But Yang Guo felt that it was extremely odd in reaching 20 zhang whilst running up a smooth cliff, not out of the question.

[The_One]

DuGu would tear up XF easily.

[duguxiaojing]

MAN! are my posts even read??? I wrote DGQB wooden stage compared to YG half wooden stage 3 times in 2 days! Simple form: Style-Supreme Formlessness. Internal: considerably higher internal than ROCH Greats because YG is only at 2.5 while DGQB has reached 3 which is Wooden stage. Half level is a lot of difference in internal. DGQB>that Greats/Elites in internal. For more detailed, look at post 2.

Read it but dosent prove anything...unless you have an unreleased excerpt from JY showing Dugu in action.

Geological and geometric aspects of this cliff:

That's actually a pretty interesting comparison. Another one that could be comparable is when JY(Z3F's teacher) ran up the side of a very steep mountain...the impressive thing is that he had no training in lightness kungfu and he was caring a young Z3F in his arms at the time. Also interestingly, from YG's thoughts he indirectly hinted that him and XLN were superior to JY in terms of lightness skill.

[Swordwiz]

Read it but dosent prove anything...unless you have an unreleased excerpt from JY showing Dugu in action.

How does it not prove anything? Reaching the wooden sword stage is great proof for his skill level.

[Whsie]

How does it not prove anything? Reaching the wooden sword stage is great proof for his skill level.

And higher level of internal is required to reach a higher level as said by YG. Since DGQB fully mastered wooden sword, he should be higher than YG. Though stronger by how much is unknown, but certainly considerably higher.

[duguxiaojing]

How does it not prove anything? Reaching the wooden sword stage is great proof for his skill level.

We know that he should have been able to beat back the waves in the south sea and thats it. No one knows what the swordless stage looks like or if he really reached that level...although I dont doubt it . Also take into account that after a couple of months of training in the waves, YG thought that he would be close to reaching Dugu's divine level of martial arts if he would be able to cut down a tree with out his wooden sword breaking. Add on five extra years of training after that point and another 9 years while roaming the central plains, I dont doubt that YG had reached that level after the 16 year seperation. If YG's assessment is correct the difference between him and Dugu after the 16 years might not have been that great(if there really is a difference).

We know DGQB is proboally as strong as a great but we have no idea how much stronger. Unless we see him in a fight its its difficult to accept him as being stronger over a proven fighter like XF. And then of course there is that infamous line in XAJH which seems to lower his martial arts ability.

[ChronoReverse]

Didn't YG try to cut a tree using the wooden sword and failed?

[kyss of the sword]

in talent and intelligence, i don't think xiao feng and DGKB are that far apart, but dugu crated a skill all on his own that was equal to if not superior to 9yin and/or 9yang. his internal was equal to 9yang and his external was equal to 9yin. if xiao feng lived another twenty yrs maybe he would have reached DGKB level but he did too early. dugu went past the level of needing any weapons to formlessness. XF best skills was using his palms but DGKB was beyond any such limits. the best person to discribe DGKB's achievments would be the discription given for SPT when he fought the two lords of gallent island, that his ligtskill, internal energy, external palm, fist, kick strikes all had merged into one. but probably still more advanced then what SPT had managed to achieve till that point. in jinyong universe, it's probably safe to say, sweeper monk, DKQB, Haungsheng, monk of 9yang, enuch of KHBD. in terms of personal (martial arts enlightment)achievments at least.

[K2Grey]

I thought that Yang Guo tried to cut a tree using his wooden sword and both broke. Afterwards he thought that if he tried it again and the tree broke while the wooden sword didn't, that would be an indication that he was close to DGQB's level.

[junzi]

We know DGQB is proboally as strong as a great but we have no idea how much stronger. Unless we see him in a fight its its difficult to accept him as being stronger over a proven fighter like XF. And then of course there is that infamous line in XAJH which seems to lower his martial arts ability.

What is this infamous line?