The Beggar's Union - was the poverty just for show?

[Ken Cheng]

The Beggar's Union is so-named for obvious reasons. Then again, didn't it seem that the members of the union (especially the elders and chiefs) were such capable and powerful men that they didn't really *need* to live in poverty if they didn't really want to?

Let's take Kiu Fung, for example. Not only did he grow up in a stable peasant family, but he grew up to be a very powerful and widely respected man. If he needed money, it would certainly not be difficult for him to earn it or even get it as a favor from his many friends, admirers, and beneficiaries. He would certainly not need to live in poverty. The same goes for North Beggar Hung 7 Gung.

Furthermore, Wong Yung was born into wealth as the daughter of East Heretic Wong Yerk See. Yeh Lut Chai was the son of a Khitan/Mongol nobleman, an associate of the Cheun Jen Sect, and the son-in-law of Gwok Jing and Wong Yung...definitely not circumstances that would lock him into a life of poverty. Even mediocrities such as Lo Yau Gerk and Shih For Lung had enough martial arts prowess and "face" to be able to live a comfortable lifestyle.

Life was certainly more difficult for the rank and file beggars that constitued 99% of the union's membership, but even they seemed to be very capable and respected individuals who wouldn't need to beg to make ends meet. How many times have we seen grateful shopowners and restaurant proprietors treat even low-ranking Beggar's Union members with great generosity in appreciation for what the beggars provide them in protection and security?

So was the apparent poverty of the beggars in the Beggar's Union just an act? Was the "impoverished" lifestyle maintained solely because it was the source of the union's organizational identity?

[kyss of the sword]

when begger's sect was formed originally, it was by agroup of poor beggers that new martial arts. later they grew in power and influence but the members are mostly poor. through the elders probably don't suffer for food.

[WuxiaGem]

It's probably an identity issue more than anything else. The Beggar Clan is seen as being supported by the common people and as such, they serve the common people. Whether or not their organizational and daily fees are entirely from public donations/charities is not known and is not important. I suppose lower rank members do depend on begging for their meals but if they do not have enough money, the Beggar Clan is able to support them.

I don't see the clan elders and leaders doing begging though. They probably receive a lot of free services--like not being charged when they go to inns or use boats. But they always have silver taels on them and I have no idea where that comes from. (Incidentally, I really don't know how jiang hu people get their money. Aside from the escort services and the religious sects, how do the other sects get their money?) In order for Kang Min (Madame Ma) to be interested in elder Ma, he must have had some significant amount of money that kept her happy in silks and whatnot (kinda hypocritical but never underestimate the power of a vicious woman...)

Even though the Beggar Clan leaders are not short on cash, they always dress modestly or poorly to identify themselves as part of the clan and to give the impression that they are not interested in riches.

So, yes, the Beggar Clan's poverty is probably an "act" but not one that is intended to deceive. While the leaders may not be lacking in money, they're certainly no rolling in it either. Their lives are not about excess (with the exception of wine) so they are not going to build large mansions or buy jade daggers or whatever.

Huang Rong and Yelu Qi are not exceptions to the rule. Although they are from rich backgrounds, they abide by the jiang hu code of honor and are not greedy. They meet enough character prerequisites that all Beggar Clan leaders should have.

[HuangYushi]

Let's take Kiu Fung, for example. Not only did he grow up in a stable peasant family, but he grew up to be a very powerful and widely respected man. If he needed money, it would certainly not be difficult for him to earn it or even get it as a favor from his many friends, admirers, and beneficiaries. He would certainly not need to live in poverty.The same goes for North Beggar Hung 7 Gung.

Hong Qigong was a slave of the Jin, just like his father and grandfather before him. -- LOCH, Chapter 22.

[Ken Cheng]

Hong Qigong was a slave of the Jin, just like his father and grandfather before him. -- LOCH, Chapter 22.

I thought Hung 7 Gung was born into a wealthy family...at least I read that somewhere once.

Either way, by the time he became the Chief of the Beggar's Union, he was a powerful man both in terms of martial arts and personal connections. He definitely didn't need to beg for a living.

[Whsie]

I thought Hung 7 Gung was born into a wealthy family...at least I read that somewhere once.

Either way, by the time he became the Chief of the Beggar's Union, he was a powerful man both in terms of martial arts and personal connections. He definitely didn't need to beg for a living.

Huang Yushi is right. If you have the book LOCH, go look when H7G, GJ, HR, OYK, OYF are stranded on that island. OYF made GJ chop trees. GJ almost lost it. And H7G then told him to hold it and explained that he has facen worse cases when he was a servant for the Jin empire. And GJ naturally then realized the purpose of the story and GJ went chopping.

[hyoyatika]

I believe the origins of the sect was that the beggars are able to wander everywhere and pick up/pass secret information without suspicion. Given that they grew to become the most respected sect, I can surmise that they even grew in affluence as well.

I believe that these beggars might have actually been funding businesses as well.

[hyoyatika]

In order for Kang Min (Madame Ma) to be interested in elder Ma, he must have had some significant amount of money that kept her happy in silks and whatnot (kinda hypocritical but never underestimate the power of a vicious woman...)

I can see Kang Min going to a shop and demanding free gifts. She most certainly was one who would abuse her power.