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Thread: Alternate DGSD scenario: Kiu Fung wins the Mo Ngai Tze chess match.

  1. #1
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default Alternate DGSD scenario: Kiu Fung wins the Mo Ngai Tze chess match.

    In an alternate universe, Kiu Fung instead of Hui Juk wins Mo Ngai Tze's "impossible" chess match and becomes Mo's "Chosen One" as Hui Juk was in the actual DGSD. How will these subsequent scenarios play out?

    Scenario A: When Mo Ngai Tze transferred his Bak Ming Sun Gung power to Hui Juk, he first needed to eradicate the small mount of Shaolin-type inner power that Hui Juk had. I suppose that with Bak Ming Sun Gung power transfers, it works a little like installing a new operating system into a computer: you need to reformat the hard drive first. In the actual DGSD, Hui Juk was helpless to resist when Mo Ngai Tze erased his puny Shaolin inner power, but we know that Kiu Fung is an entirely different case.

    1. Would Mo Ngai Tze be able to subdue Kiu Fung adequately to transfer his Bak Ming Sun Gung energy into Kiu Fung?

    2. If so, how much of a struggle would it be for Mo Ngai Tze to do so?

    After considering the above two questions, let's assume that Kiu Fung does indeed gain Mo Ngai Tze's Bak Ming Sun Gung as Hui Juk did. Two subsequent alternate scenarios:

    Scenario B1: Kiu Fung gains Mo Ngai Tze's Bak Ming Sun Gung power, but loses his original Shaolin inner power in the process, as expected.

    Scenario B2: Through some freak accident/miracle, Mo Ngai Tze's Bak Ming Sun Gung power is transferred intact into Kiu Fung, but Kiu Fung ALSO keeps his original Shaolin inner power on top of that.

    Taking Scenarios B1 or B2 into account, let's move on.

    Kiu Fung meets up with Teen San Tung Lo and rescues her, as Hui Juk did. In the actual DGSD, Teen San Tung Lo pretty much pushed Hui Juk around (more because of his personality than his power, although he didn't have enough martial arts skill to actually win against her in a fight at that stage). Kiu Fung, of course, would not be as easy for Teen San Tung Lo to push around as Hui Juk. What would happen if Teen San Tung Lo tried? If it came down to a physical confrontation (remember, this is Kiu Fung from Scenario B1 or B2, where he's got Mo Ngai Tze's inner power on top of his native abilities), how would it go? And what would happen after Lee Chou Shui showed up?

    Putting Kiu Fung into Hui Juk's position here leads to some interesting alternate possibilities.

  2. #2
    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    This has been discussed before quite a few times.

    1. WYZ has no chance of grabbing XF to eradicate or absorb his energy since he is crippled.

    2. If WYZ explains the rationale for him wanting to get an heir to take revenge on DCQ, XF would most likely just do him that favour by going outside (DCQ was there) and thumping DCQ on the spot.


    1a. If XF was at the gathering with DY/MRF and wanted to save TSTL from the 36/72 Cave/Islands, he wouldn't do what XZ did (grab and run). It'll be Ju Xian Zhuang Part II. He'll just bash everyone up.


    So, its implausible for XF to inherit WYZ/TSTL/LQS's skills or power.


    edit : Your scenario B2 can't happen. The Shaolin energy will be converted to BMZQ.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CC
    edit : Your scenario B2 can't happen. The Shaolin energy will be converted to BMZQ.
    By "converted," do you mean that the original Shaolin energy remains within Kiu Fung, but is transformed into Bak Ming energy, or is it destroyed and *replaced* by the Bak Ming energy?

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    Senior Member Han Solo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    By "converted," do you mean that the original Shaolin energy remains within Kiu Fung, but is transformed into Bak Ming energy, or is it destroyed and *replaced* by the Bak Ming energy?
    Destroyed and replaced.

    To have Bei Ming, one's internal energy needs to be void.

    Otherwise, everything that CC posted answered your questions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bliss
    I think they're probably at the same level as or one level below Ah Qing, which is about the level of a 2nd or 3rd generation Quan Zhen disciple.
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    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Han Solo
    Destroyed and replaced.

    To have Bei Ming, one's internal energy needs to be void.

    Otherwise, everything that CC posted answered your questions.

    Han Solo
    Doesn't have to be destroyed. Can be absorbed, converted to BMZQ before being returned.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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    Senior Member Xiao Feng's Avatar
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    When WYZ wipes out someone's internal energy using Bei Ming Shen Gong, he absorbs it into his own. Therefore in the hypothetical assumption that XF lets WYZ do that, when WYZ transfers his internal energy to XF, XF in effect gets WYZ's internal energy + his own, but in Bei Ming Zhen Qi form.

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    I actually think MRF winning the chess game somehow would be the most interesting alternate scenario for DGSD, could MRF take XF 1 on 1 with WYZ's internal energy?

    I believe he certainly could beat XF if he got the internal energy of all 3 XY elders as well as some instructions from TSTL, but it's hard to tell how things would turn out if MRF would be in XZ's place as those two have got very different personalities.

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    Senior Member Tazzy1972's Avatar
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    tat would be a scary thot and if u throw in the LQS and TSTL's internal energies XF will be a walking nuke
    TaZzY InC

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tazzy1972
    tat would be a scary thot and if u throw in the LQS and TSTL's internal energies XF will be a walking nuke
    Heck, the combined power of the three Siu Yiu Sect Elders within the body of the supremely talented Kiu Fung would mean that the Janitor Monk would finally face a serious challenge to his place atop the wulin heap.

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    If Xiao Feng underwent the transformation, would that mean his previous trainings would be completely useless? I.e. his techniques would be back to square zero? That means he would be nearly useless until further advanced techniques have been taught to him?
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Senior Member Tazzy1972's Avatar
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    no he can re-learn them right? imagine the kung long you hui with the power of the 3 xiao yao elders
    TaZzY InC

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    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    If Xiao Feng underwent the transformation, would that mean his previous trainings would be completely useless? I.e. his techniques would be back to square zero? That means he would be nearly useless until further advanced techniques have been taught to him?
    Don't see how his previous training would be useless. JMZ could use Xiao Yao inner techniques to power his external Shaolin forms. XZ could presumably use Dragon Palms.

    In any case, with XF, half a day with TSTL and he should have learnt everything. However, I can't imagine him using Xiao Yao's fairy like dancing techniques. He'll go back to Dragon Palms by default.


    As for MRF, I think that if he had taken _just_ WYZ's inner power, he should be at least able to _draw_ with XF.


    No point speculating on what XF could do with if we added the 3 elders energies to him. This kind of speculation is along the lines of ZWJ learning the 9 Yin and DG9J while using the Heaven Sword or YG eating the gall bladders from age 5 till 35 while sleeping on the ice bed after Uncle Guo taught him the full 9 Yin.
    Last edited by CC; 03-14-07 at 11:26 PM.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tazzy1972
    no he can re-learn them right? imagine the kung long you hui with the power of the 3 xiao yao elders
    Thats exactly what Xu Zhu has... Too bad we never see it in action.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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    Senior Member Xiao Feng's Avatar
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    Maybe that's the reason for the disappearance of the Xiao Yao Sect after DGSD.

    XZ, whilst in a particular vigorous session of training, his quadruple decked Kang Long You Hui, demolished the whole damn place.

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    Senior Member HuangYushi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    If Xiao Feng underwent the transformation, would that mean his previous trainings would be completely useless? I.e. his techniques would be back to square zero? That means he would be nearly useless until further advanced techniques have been taught to him?
    1. Bei Ming Shen Gong develops Bei Ming Zhen Qi in a direction that is *opposite* of most other martial arts schools.

    2. Duan Yu could use his Bei Ming Zhen Qi (or whatever that passes off for it) to power the Liu Mai Shen Jian, which was originally meant to be learnt on top of the Yi Yang Zhi, which in turn was powered by the internal energy that was cultivated using the Keys to the Internal Energy Cultivation Techniques of the Duan Family. These Keys were, presumably, required the flow of strength in the *normal* (instead of *opposite*) direction. Logical Conclusion #1: That the use of Bei Ming Zhen Qi by someone who has actually learnt some Bei Ming Shen Gong to power a non-Xiaoyao martial arts technique is possible.

    3. After Xuzhu got his internal strength wiped out and replaced with Wuyazi's strength (which was effectively all Bei Ming Zhen Qi), he could still use Shaolin's Veda Palm 韦陀掌 that he learnt earlier in his fight with Jiumozhi (at Shaolin). Logical Conclusion #2: That external skills (like fist/feet/palm techniques) are not wiped out during the Xiaoyao energy-transferring process.

    4. Which leads us to the following:
    (a) That Xiao Feng (in the scenario discussed) would not have lost any of his external skills such as the Dragon Palms.
    (b) That Xiao Feng (in the scenario discussed) should not have any problem using the Bei Ming Zhen Qi to power non-Xiaoyao techniques, such as the Dragon Palms.
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  16. #16
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CC
    Don't see how his previous training would be useless. JMZ could use Xiao Yao inner techniques to power his external Shaolin forms. XZ could presumably use Dragon Palms.
    Jiumozhi added Xiaowuxiang Gong ON TOP OF his previous martial arts, whereas in our current scenario, Xiao Feng would be completely deprived of his previous martial arts.

    Xuzhu needed instructions and training to tap into Xiaoyao Pai's strength.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    Jiumozhi added Xiaowuxiang Gong ON TOP OF his previous martial arts, whereas in our current scenario, Xiao Feng would be completely deprived of his previous martial arts.

    Xuzhu needed instructions and training to tap into Xiaoyao Pai's strength.
    See Huang Yushi's #3 above. I concur 100% with his post.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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    Senior Member kyss of the sword's Avatar
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    XYP's Bei ming zhen qi was in the opposite direction of normal martial arts and to use it, DY had to recirculate his inner power in the duan family style manner which was in normal direction. it was part of the reason he could not effectivelly use 6MDS till much later.
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  19. #19
    Senior Member Han Solo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyss of the sword
    XYP's Bei ming zhen qi was in the opposite direction of normal martial arts and to use it, DY had to recirculate his inner power in the duan family style manner which was in normal direction. it was part of the reason he could not effectivelly use 6MDS till much later.
    Yushi and I was discussing about that in the past, and we can't actually find novel proof of this.

    Can you be kind enough to point me to the text implying this??

    Han Solo
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    Quote Originally Posted by bliss
    I think they're probably at the same level as or one level below Ah Qing, which is about the level of a 2nd or 3rd generation Quan Zhen disciple.
    Troll Control

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