taiji sword or DG9J?

[druid]

which sword art would you learn assuming if DG9J is the first level of DGQB famous sword philosophy?

[kyss of the sword]

DG9J and TAIJI jianfa are the same level as the other, only the direction is opposite of the other, DG9J tahes the iniciative while taiji follows the opponent.
to master both, you must let goof stances and follow the essence. go with the flow.

[Whsie]

I still believe in Taichi more if it's LHC's unmastered DG9J with the variations vs. Z3F's Taichi sword which is formless.
HOWEVER, if it's a fully mastered DG9J with all the variations forgotten like what FQY said should eventually happen if you are to master the art, then Z3F's taichi sword is = to mastered formless DG9J.

[Extremer88]

I still believe in Taichi more if it's LHC's unmastered DG9J with the variations vs. Z3F's Taichi sword which is formless.
HOWEVER, if it's a fully mastered DG9J with all the variations forgotten like what FQY said should eventually happen if you are to master the art, then Z3F's taichi sword is = to mastered formless DG9J.

Both DG9J and Taiji Swordplay are formless, what about 6MSJ - formless too.

[K2Grey]

I believe the formlessness that comes from Taiji is better than the formlessness from DG9J. Even if you can make up things on the spot there will still be differences between how people improvise.

IIRC 6MSJ has stances, not that it matters. After all, 6MSJ is a unique weapon and it may be that the stances take advantage of the attributes of each sword for optimal effectiveness. Formless variations which may be optimal for conventional swordplay do not necessarily translate to 6MSJ as well.

[wishiknew]

6MSJ is formless only because it lacks a physical sword but it still has set stances/moves. DGKB eventually reached a stage where he didnt need a physical sword.

Taichi vs DG9J-while they are both formless, I don't believe the sword meaning/direction/"AI" of Taichi is as good. It lacks the built in counters of DG9J. DG9J also has tips of how to detect the signs the opponents gives off where his next move might be. DG9J was also designed against many types of attacks like anything with hands, interal chi, projectiles, wipes, point sealing ... etc which I don't think Taichi took into account.

Taichi was designed around the "circle" and its formless limited by its "circle".

In the prison fight between LHC vs RWX, DG9J seems to scale up. It moves a touch of subtlety. Taichi seems more generic and lacks the fineness which could be the difference between winning/losing.

Taichi to me seems like a computer that mapped out the finite moves of tic tac toe or checkers while DG9J is chess.

Any besides we know what happened when LHC's DG9J went up against Chong Xu's Taichi.

[Phoenix_Aquaris]

Any besides we know what happened when LHC's DG9J went up against Chong Xu's Taichi.

I think people here are comparing the Taichi sword in HSDS, that is far more powerful and definitely not a computer move.. It takes more than above-average human beings to stumble upon its meaning..

The true Taichi sword is limitless, it breaks your stance using emptiness, void and (illusion? the chinese word xu1), not limited by the circle. If DG9J wants to break taichi swordplay, the user must find a way to find the weakness of emptiness/nothing..

[Whsie]

Both DG9J and Taiji Swordplay are formless, what about 6MSJ - formless too.

DG9J is only formless if mastered and you forget all the variations. In LHC's case, he hasn't forgotten all his variations, so LHC's DG9J is not trully formless.
DG9J becomes formless when you forget all the variations like what FQY said would happen eventually if you are to master it. FQY said that it would take about another 20 years for LHC to get to that stage.

[stephen Chow]

DG9J is better I think.

[Whsie]

I'm guessing that Taichi sword is losing is because everyone assumes that Chongxu's taichi is weaker than LHC's DG9J. Z3F's Taichi sword in theory should be stronger. IF there is a weakness in the stance like Chongxu's then Z3F probably wouldn't have hid it somewhere not as obvious.
If me and Chongxu were in a fight, it may be true that the most dangerous point is the point where the weakness is, but if Chongxu had hid it in the center circle, then it would also be very obvious. If Chongxu had hid the weakness in a less obvious, though weaker spot, then LHC may not have seen it. Remember, LHC had trouble spotting the weakness even though the weakness was in the most obvious spot possible-the center. If Chongxu had hid the weakness in part of the circle motion, then I have my doubts that LHC can spot the weakness especially when he had trouble with the easiest spot.

[AnhHung]

Correct me if Im wrong, but doesnt DG9J require form to achieve formless and Taichi is formless in the first place?

[Phoenix_Aquaris]

Correct me if Im wrong, but doesnt DG9J require form to achieve formless and Taichi is formless in the first place?

I think I'll do the correction

ZWJ sure needed a sword to perform Taichi swordplay, as for Z3F, nobody knows, he never showed his true abilities. I remember him calling for the ZhenWu sword to be brought to him at the starting few chapters of the novel.. But maybe he is not using Taichi sword..

Taichi stances bring about the essence of virtuality, countering solidity with emptiness and speed with steadiness. However, I don't remember anything mentioned about Taichi using formless swords, doesn't require the use of a physical sword, all I knew is that its stances are sort of formless..

[AnhHung]

...what i meant is the stances, not the actually swords. So i think we are on the same page here; Taichi sword art is some kind formless (stances) sword stances. I dont know if u need an actual sword to perform Taichi sword.

[Phoenix_Aquaris]

...what i meant is the stances, not the actually swords. So i think we are on the same page here; Taichi sword art is some kind formless (stances) sword stances. I dont know if u need an actual sword to perform Taichi sword.

I think if a user of the Taichi sword reached a certain level, he would be able to unleash Taichi with a bare stick, which has reached DGQB 4th level in sword mastery, "performing swordplay without a sword, anything around you is a sword".. I don't know if it can challenge DGQB 5th level, swordplay without any physical objects.(formless sword qi)

[The_One]

DG9J is better I think.

lol. How do you get banned after one post?

I'm going with Taichi sword. DG9J is just too fancy for me.

[Ken Cheng]

lol. How do you get banned after one post?

It happens when said poster is already a banned poster trying to sneak back in under another userid.

[wishiknew]

About this Taichi's emptiness/void as well as its formless.

When a Taichi user is going up against anyone, what do u think is really happening? And same with a DJ9J user. They are not just blindly waving their swords around. When one is in a sword fight , its about using your own body/sword in such a way to get the opponents body/sword in a position you want it to be in.

Does one really think that a Taichi user can somehow opens up a science fiction nul space and defend or attack with it?

And formless. Does one really think a Taichi user can some how magically know where the sword goes next or maybe the next 'move' comes out of his wazoo?

Formless isn't from thin air. Formless comes from many forms and trying not to perform repeats of such that one can recognize a pattern. If Taichi truly is 'formless' then how can it be taught and passed down. Since it can, there must be a descriptive way of its logic or 'whats next'. The sword meaning describes what you should do next when you/opponent/sword is in such a position.

Does DG9J user just stand still with the sword doing nothing but looking for weak points? Its attacking and advancing. The breakers in DG9J just means the position of both of you/opponent/'weapons' matched a pre defined pattern where its possible one can go down a certain route for a 'quick kill'. (still doesn't sound that great but its the best I can do)

[Whsie]

About this Taichi's emptiness/void as well as its formless.

When a Taichi user is going up against anyone, what do u think is really happening? And same with a DJ9J user. They are not just blindly waving their swords around. When one is in a sword fight , its about using your own body/sword in such a way to get the opponents body/sword in a position you want it to be in.

Does one really think that a Taichi user can somehow opens up a science fiction nul space and defend or attack with it?

And formless. Does one really think a Taichi user can some how magically know where the sword goes next or maybe the next 'move' comes out of his wazoo?

Formless isn't from thin air. Formless comes from many forms and trying not to perform repeats of such that one can recognize a pattern. If Taichi truly is 'formless' then how can it be taught and passed down. Since it can, there must be a descriptive way of its logic or 'whats next'. The sword meaning describes what you should do next when you/opponent/sword is in such a position.

Does DG9J user just stand still with the sword doing nothing but looking for weak points? Its attacking and advancing. The breakers in DG9J just means the position of both of you/opponent/'weapons' matched a pre defined pattern where its possible one can go down a certain route for a 'quick kill'. (still doesn't sound that great but its the best I can do)

That's not the case for Taichi sword. 这两把兵刃一是宝剑，一是木剑，但平面相交，宝剑和本剑实无分别，张无忌这一招乃是以己之钝，挡敌之无锋， 实已得了太极剑法的精奥。要知张三丰传给他的乃是“剑意”，而非“剑招”，要他将所见到的剑招忘得半点不剩 ，才能得其神髓，临敌时以意驭剑，千变万化，无穷无尽。倘若尚有一两招剑法忘不乾净，心有拘圃，剑法便不能纯。And plz tell me if you can't read chinese. I once did a quote, and realized he couldn't read it. If it teaches what to do "next", then that's a variation or even a stance and it wouldn't match what the quote mentions. Note the bolded part, it says that that you can't even have one or two stances remembered or else your Taichi sword in general is screwed over. So I disagree. The circle stuff is the sword meaning, not the stance.

[wishiknew]

Hi Whsie. Simplifed text isn't my stuff. But we can convert it and its not like we don't where the section is from.

If 'what's next' results in a prolonged interval that could be recognized as a stance or variation then I wouldn't count it as formless.

I said the circle was a stance?

Go with atoms instead of molecules. Random is good.

Guess what happens when 2 Taichi(or DG9J)users go against each other

[kyss of the sword]

the essential idea behind all martial arts is to reach the formless stage, which isn't really formless because only air is really formless and try fighting with that. the idea is not to be held back by formless and limitaions. not being held back is the key word. when LHC and Chongxu fought, they were both in the formless range, but LHC's XXDF sucked away Chongxu's energy and weakened his moves. taiji sword relies on inner power to maintain it's circle form against an opponent while redirecting his force. when his power was sucked away, Chongxu moves showed a weakness and he ended up having changing his sword strategy to force a draw. i don't belive LHC was able to initially find any flaws in Chongxu sword moves. i belive he tried to 'create a weakness where there was none'.
Chongxu also wasn't able to redirect DG9J because of LHC's XXDF.