Is it possible to confuse Dook Goo 9 Swords with "5 Elements Octagons" formations?

[Ken Cheng]

One frequent feature of wuxia fiction are those "5 Elements Octagons" formations that work some kind of "feng shui" action that confuses a person's senses. East Heretic Wong Yerk See particularly favored these formations, and they showed up in much of his martial arts.

Dook Goo 9 Swords supposedly had a counter for everything, but did it have a counter for this?

[CC]

One frequent feature of wuxia fiction are those "5 Elements Octagons" formations that work some kind of "feng shui" action that confuses a person's senses. East Heretic Wong Yerk See particularly favored these formations, and they showed up in much of his martial arts.

Dook Goo 9 Swords supposedly had a counter for everything, but did it have a counter for this?

This is more a plot device question then anything else so if the scenario took place in XAJH then yes, LHC will just stick his damn sword out backwards and the bad guy will somehow get poked in his nutsack.

[K2Grey]

I'd say yes, DG9J is a sword skill not a spiritual kungfu. If we are to say that DG9J wielders can't be confused by 5 Element Octagons then we might as well say that they are undefeatable in weiqi and chess as well since they will always see their opponents stratagems.

[Whsie]

I not saying I have any proof on this, but I don't think DG9J can break the formations. The 5 Element formation and 8 Gua formation are 2 of the highest formations in chinese philosophy.

[ChronoReverse]

Of course it'll work. DG9J breaks stances not formations.

Of course, this doesn't preclude a DG9J from studying the I-ching and related materials.

[Ken Cheng]

Perhaps we've finally identified a way to overcome Dook Goo 9 Swords.

And perhaps, this is one reason why Dook Goo Kau Bai possibly abandoned Dook Goo 9 Swords for the more powerful Heavy Iron Sword Technique.

[ChronoReverse]

Eh? Formations work against everything including Heavy Iron. Simply trying to smash your way out won't work against high-level formations either (unless there's a severe weak point which DG9J would just as easily be able to take advantage of). It requires either a quick mind to figure it out (REALLY quick) or some working knowledge of either the formation or the theories that is the basis.

Either way, a formation is (usually) for multiple people against the one person. Hardly a fair duel.



DG9J does have a number of glaring weaknesses though if you use it verbatim. But as a booster step leading to formlessness, it's an extremely strong base since it's a comprehensive set that gives working knowledge of all attacks.



Incidentally, I don't believe that the "chi-breaking" stance is any kind of miraculous stance that will beat out someone with high chi. I take what FCY said to be literal: that you have to figure out a way yourself. What the 9th stance probably gives is the basis of how all internal energy must work like the other stances do.

From there on, the limit is your comprehension and ability on your path to true formlessness. And it would be a strong formlessness since the basis is powerful.

Remember, "formlessness" isn't some magical bullet that makes you superpowered, it's simply an ideal. But against someone else with the same martial arts comprehension, you don't necessarily have the edge. A person flailing around is formless, but obviously martial arts will overcome that. Comprehension is still extremely important.

[Ren Ying Ying]

Originally Posted by ChronoReverse

Remember, "formlessness" isn't some magical bullet that makes you superpowered, it's simply an ideal. But against someone else with the same martial arts comprehension, you don't necessarily have the edge. A person flailing around is formless, but obviously martial arts will overcome that. Comprehension is still extremely important.

dugu 9 sword is really up to the user. if you have some idiot weilding it, he's gonna lose (octagon formation or not) simply because he can't find any weakness in his opponents anyways. if the wielder is someone like huang yao shi, then he'd most likely be able to defeat the formation .

so by concept, the user can win if he finds the weakness in the formation

but practically, there are probably few few people who can actually pull it off

[ChronoReverse]

Precisely. It's still up to the practicioner to pull off the miracle. And not everyone can do that (that is to say, most people can't).

[K2Grey]

But if there are few people who can pull off miracles vs formations, that does not mean that the formation will not hold up if the people in the formation are experts.

4 whatever may move 1000 catties, but not if the person with the 1000 catties knows what he's doing.

[ChronoReverse]

I'd say it's common sense that multiple experts in a strong formation would overcome a single expert

The single expert obviously needs to be far stronger as well.

[kyss of the sword]

if you mean five element or eight triagram boxing/swordplay used in a formation by a number of experts. probably. but against formations that are built of stone or etc, no. those involve knowledge of formations to break. DG9J is meant to overcome stances, sword or other wise. the type of formations HYS uses are made out of his surroundings and take time to construct. a fighting formation is different since each person will use a sword/palm stance, which DG9J can beat. through DG9J user may need some knowledge of formations to win. most times, DG9J is one on one, or at least takes down opponents one at a time, even when it seems to defeat serveral opponents at once. in a true fighting formation, the attacks come similtanously.

part of DG9J formula may come from the eight triagrams. when FCY taught LHC, he mentioned some lines that seem to fit the eight triagrams philosophy.

[IcyFox]

Is it possible to confuse Dook Goo 9 Swords with "5 Elements Octagons" formations?

Answer undefined.

They are 2 separate and unrelated theories. Case closed.