Team Condor v Team Smiling Wanderers

[Extremer88]

However, it's clear that DG9J can't perform any of the sword winds that Heavy Iron can.

The difference was the internal energy between YG and LHC.

[Whsie]

The difference was the internal energy between YG and LHC.

at least much more difficult since Heavy iron relies on power while LHC's relies semi between sharpness and speed. So Heavy Iron would still produce stronger winds.

[duguxiaojing]

Re:Whise

The problem is your comparing the internal power portion with the sword art vs DG9J. Not saying that its incorrect to do so since wooden and iron sword techniuqes are inner power based but for example Yg using DG9J could do everything you mentioned.

1. It's your opinion because if Yg used DG9J whose to say he wouldnt be more powerful.

2. I never said he mastered it. I said he has a firm grip of the sword breaking stance and showed that he was capable of formlessness.


3. It is speculation because I provdied an example which shows XWT would be at least as powerful as a great...but would you say XWT is stronger based on that one example? When comparing characters between novels I dont think it would be fair to say one character is weaker based on one example, which is what you did in your HYS and FZ comparison.

For the record I do believe YG would WTFPWN LHC, but I do have some doubts about that stuff you were writing about HIS and WS being far surperior then DG9J.
I also think that it is unfair to say character A is > than character B just because you believe one technique is superior to another, especially when there is little to no proff to back it up(besides your own personal speculation.)

The difference was the internal energy between YG and LHC.

Thats what i believe as well.

[Ren Ying Ying]

It's kind of hard to be convinced. Think about it, what is LHC doing everytime? Looking for weaknesses. However, YG's Heavy Iron is first formless which FQY then said would then be decided by who's internal is higher which obviously is YG. And DG9J's power is just no where near Heavy Iron or YG's Wood Sword.
And just to tell you, because LHC hasn't mastered DG9J yet, his sword is not yet formless. DG9J mastered is formless, but LHC hasn't got there yet.

...

DG9J and Iron Sword is 2 different things, but I do think Iron Sword is above DG9J is sword status and it's also pretty obvious by the described power of Iron Sword which DG9J is no where able to match.

Why not? Heavy Iron sword relies on brute strength to overwhelm your opponent, which obviously is better than just to search for your opponent's weaknesses. Am I not correct?

Well, clearly swordsmanship wise, LHC is stronger, but YG is more powerful with internal energy...this no one can dispute for it's indicated by JY directly (unless the quote is fake...but i hardly doubt it). Secondly, you were mentioning FQY's dugu 9 sword...which i'm sure the guy has known this skill for a considerably long time, so he's sure to master it. If heavy iron sword was so superior, why did dugu qiu bai even bother creating the whole "no sword" level? clearly, if overwhelming power is all you need to use to defeat an opponent, why bother going beyond an super powerful iron sword?

obviously this doesn't mean LHC is better than YG...few would even bother arguing so.

Not speculation. I showed the feats during LOCH times. And it's shown that they improve a lot. The best example is GJ at 33 where he was already able to master XL18Z refined. And yet, he is still equal to one of the Greats. And another example is during that 16 year period where all the Greats have to improve in order to match YG in some way. These all show decent improvements. JLFW decribed as enhancing his ability by times.

um...doesn't it mean GJ & YG improved tremendously to catch up to the GREATS rather than the other way around???? surely they improved alot ...but it still doesn't make the LOCH HYS super weak. i would still stay LOCH HYS would give post ROCH HYS a great deal of trouble.

why i believe DFBB>>GJ/YG/ZWJ??
first of all, as you have said yourself, it's most likely shaolin FZ > LOCH HYS/Great (not sure about ROCH great.). Hence, if RWY is about FZ's lvl (or maybe slightly weaker...but little enough to matter in this comparison), and let's just be conservative and have LHC, XWT, RYY, and that other guy plus together equal to another RWX...that would mean DFBB is fighting two fighters, both at least more powerful than LOCH Greats. And he wasn't "fighting..." he was more like toying with them. Honestly, I don't see someone like GJ/YG/ZWJ doing that to 2 LOCH greats at all.

[Whsie]

Didn't XAJH states than under the powerful strokes of DG9J, anyone can defeat anybody who have higher internal energy easily?

So if this is true, does that mean LHC's swordmanship is better than YG?

Are you talking about the chi breaking stance? That is highly controversial. And in addition, LHC didn't master it . Some (including me) say that it can't overcome higher levels.

[Whsie]

Well, clearly swordsmanship wise, LHC is stronger, but YG is more powerful with internal energy...this no one can dispute for it's indicated by JY directly (unless the quote is fake...but i hardly doubt it). Secondly, you were mentioning FQY's dugu 9 sword...which i'm sure the guy has known this skill for a considerably long time, so he's sure to master it. If heavy iron sword was so superior, why did dugu qiu bai even bother creating the whole "no sword" level? clearly, if overwhelming power is all you need to use to defeat an opponent, why bother going beyond an super powerful iron sword?

obviously this doesn't mean LHC is better than YG...few would even bother arguing so.



um...doesn't it mean GJ & YG improved tremendously to catch up to the GREATS rather than the other way around???? surely they improved alot ...but it still doesn't make the LOCH HYS super weak. i would still stay LOCH HYS would give post ROCH HYS a great deal of trouble.

why i believe DFBB>>GJ/YG/ZWJ??
first of all, as you have said yourself, it's most likely shaolin FZ > LOCH HYS/Great (not sure about ROCH great.). Hence, if RWY is about FZ's lvl (or maybe slightly weaker...but little enough to matter in this comparison), and let's just be conservative and have LHC, XWT, RYY, and that other guy plus together equal to another RWX...that would mean DFBB is fighting two fighters, both at least more powerful than LOCH Greats. And he wasn't "fighting..." he was more like toying with them. Honestly, I don't see someone like GJ/YG/ZWJ doing that to 2 LOCH greats at all.

Because sword chi is even stronger. Look at that 6 Meridian Sword blasting the life out of MRF

YG/GJ were originally behind, but by some point in ROCH, it became Greats start catching up to GJ/YG.
And when I say LOCH great, I mean the LOCH great in LOCH TIME PERIOD. The LOCH Greats in the ROCH time period is far superior to those of LOCH time period. And it was very obvious just from the fact that H7G perform 10 feet during LOCH period and that YG/HYS were AT LEAST at bare minimum (most likely more) blasted 20 feet, though 30 feet would be the most ideal since it's the best between 20-50 feet. The DFBB being compared to is the End of ROCH GREATs which by then could destroy their former self in LOCH time period. And to further prove HYS's tremendous improvement from LOCH period. HYS originally had to use pebbles to shoot finger energy. When he was with YG, HYS used finger energy at a bare minimum of 20 feet without pebbles. So obviously, just from that, HYS IMPROVED A LOT. And I dare to say way above FZ since FZ was originally only considerably stronger than HYS during LOCH period.
You have to realize that the society all of a sudden reached an extreme level not seen since the DGSD days at the end of ROCH. And further proof of improvement is that JLFW was directly stated to have increased by MUTIPLE strength. I don't think I need to say more on their improvement.
Therefore with all that summed up, yes.... ZWJ, YG, GJ can easily DESTROY any one of the Greats during the LOCH period.

[Ren Ying Ying]

crush TWO of them with like toys????

[Whsie]

crush TWO of them with like toys????

trust me. I've proved it too. You want me to now go get the actual text in chinese for you to believe me? If you still don't believe me, I'll gladly do so except it would waste a lot of my time.
A comparision useable:
LOCH periods: 7 Freaks are first class. Learn one of their art, and you are well known in jianghu according to Ma Yue
ROCH: 7 Freaks, Jin Empire dudes, they are trash quite literally in ROCH period.

[Whsie]

Re:Whise

The problem is your comparing the internal power portion with the sword art vs DG9J. Not saying that its incorrect to do so since wooden and iron sword techniuqes are inner power based but for example Yg using DG9J could do everything you mentioned.

1. It's your opinion because if Yg used DG9J whose to say he wouldnt be more powerful.

2. I never said he mastered it. I said he has a firm grip of the sword breaking stance and showed that he was capable of formlessness.


3. It is speculation because I provdied an example which shows XWT would be at least as powerful as a great...but would you say XWT is stronger based on that one example? When comparing characters between novels I dont think it would be fair to say one character is weaker based on one example, which is what you did in your HYS and FZ comparison.

For the record I do believe YG would WTFPWN LHC, but I do have some doubts about that stuff you were writing about HIS and WS being far surperior then DG9J.
I also think that it is unfair to say character A is > than character B just because you believe one technique is superior to another, especially when there is little to no proff to back it up(besides your own personal speculation.)




Thats what i believe as well.

Dude, that's nothing. XWT making foots on the ground? And Yin Tian Zheng fighting DuNan? Yin Tian Zheng made a foot mark on the ground everytime he was forced back since Yin Tian zheng was utilizing his internal to the max.

[Ken Cheng]

LOCH periods: 7 Freaks are first class. Learn one of their art, and you are well known in jianghu according to Ma Yue
ROCH: 7 Freaks, Jin Empire dudes, they are trash quite literally in ROCH period.

I'm not sure that's a fair comparison. In LOCH, most of the Freaks were alive and active for most of the story (as were the Jin Empire's mercenaries), but by ROCH, only one Freak remained (and he was retired) and the Jin mercenaries were all in prison. They were irrelevant because they were either dead or otherwise isolated from wulin.

[Whsie]

I'm not sure that's a fair comparison. In LOCH, most of the Freaks were alive and active for most of the story (as were the Jin Empire's mercenaries), but by ROCH, only one Freak remained (and he was retired) and the Jin mercenaries were all in prison. They were irrelevant because they were either dead or otherwise isolated from wulin.

Even so. Look at what was considered 1st of 1st class at ROCH period. Maybe Shaolin monks, KunLun Shan elders, YLQ. Those are better than LOCH 1st of 1st who are the Yideng's disciples and QZ 7, HYS' disciple, OYK. QZ 7 and Yideng's disciple's status in wulin no doubt dropped to 1st class. While the people I mentioned took 1st of 1st.

[duguxiaojing]

Dude, that's nothing. XWT making foots on the ground? And Yin Tian Zheng fighting DuNan? Yin Tian Zheng made a foot mark on the ground everytime he was forced back since Yin Tian zheng was utilizing his internal to the max.

Never read this battle, perhaps you could provide the text. Anyways that pretty much proves my point. JY's inner power was said to be roughly equal to GJ(1dengs, and later the rest of the greats and ZWJ in HSDS), yet he could not make foot prints deep into the ground without his heavy buckets of water. So because YTZ can make foot prints into the ground does that make him far superior to a great?

Thats pretty much what you are doing with the HYS and FZ comparison.

[Whsie]

I'll give it to you tommorow. It's now 12:28 A.M... and I'm suppose to be at bed...
But I'll give it to you tommorow.

[Ken Cheng]

I'll give it to you tommorow. It's now 12:28 A.M... and I'm suppose to be at bed...
But I'll give it to you tommorow.

For the wuxia fan it is also time to sleep.

[Ren Ying Ying]

Because sword chi is even stronger. Look at that 6 Meridian Sword blasting the life out of MRF

YG/GJ were originally behind, but by some point in ROCH, it became Greats start catching up to GJ/YG.
And when I say LOCH great, I mean the LOCH great in LOCH TIME PERIOD. The LOCH Greats in the ROCH time period is far superior to those of LOCH time period. And it was very obvious just from the fact that H7G perform 10 feet during LOCH period and that YG/HYS were AT LEAST at bare minimum (most likely more) blasted 20 feet, though 30 feet would be the most ideal since it's the best between 20-50 feet. The DFBB being compared to is the End of ROCH GREATs which by then could destroy their former self in LOCH time period. And to further prove HYS's tremendous improvement from LOCH period. HYS originally had to use pebbles to shoot finger energy. When he was with YG, HYS used finger energy at a bare minimum of 20 feet without pebbles. So obviously, just from that, HYS IMPROVED A LOT. And I dare to say way above FZ since FZ was originally only considerably stronger than HYS during LOCH period.
You have to realize that the society all of a sudden reached an extreme level not seen since the DGSD days at the end of ROCH. And further proof of improvement is that JLFW was directly stated to have increased by MUTIPLE strength. I don't think I need to say more on their improvement.
Therefore with all that summed up, yes.... ZWJ, YG, GJ can easily DESTROY any one of the Greats during the LOCH period.

and what makes you think it's the greats that were catching up to GJ/YG at any point? where does it at any point in the novel say that GJ/YG were better than the greats????

H7G only fired ten feet???? i clearly remember you saying in a previous post that H7G's palms were maybe 2 zhang?? 1 zhang =3.3 meters...1m>>3 feet...that'z at least 20 feet. i don't know what passage you are refering to, but did it say that this was H7G's max range?

HYS still used a pebble for gold wheel monk at end of ROCH. it's not rare to fire energy out of one's finger. think 1 deng & 1yang finger. and speaking of finger, qiu chu ji mentioned in ROCH that even 1 deng may not be able to carve words onto wood with his finger...where as the shaolin abbot & the beggar clan leader were able to.

[Ken Cheng]

and what makes you think it's the greats that were catching up to GJ/YG at any point? where does it at any point in the novel say that GJ/YG were better than the greats????

Yeung Gor definitely wasn't, and we can't be sure about Gwok Jing one way or another.

I'll stop there before this branches off into another Gwok Jing vs. Yeung Gor discussion.

[Ren Ying Ying]

trust me. I've proved it too. You want me to now go get the actual text in chinese for you to believe me? If you still don't believe me, I'll gladly do so except it would waste a lot of my time.
A comparision useable:
LOCH periods: 7 Freaks are first class. Learn one of their art, and you are well known in jianghu according to Ma Yue
ROCH: 7 Freaks, Jin Empire dudes, they are trash quite literally in ROCH period.

yes in fact i would . but if it were too much time, summary or directed chapter is fine too .

sure 7 freaks were 1st class...that would make qiu chu ji superman woudn't it? since 7 freaks were barely 1 qiu chu ji and by dears, 5 or 6 2nd generation quan zhen diciples were barely able to handle 1 HYS...and this is with the dipper formation (i think.... )

[Ken Cheng]

There seemed to be fewer martial artists (that we know of and that are discussed by Jin Yong) active during the LOCH than the ROCH era. Excluding the Greats, in LOCH, you had the Yeung Teet Sum, Gwok Siu Teen, Muk Lim Chi, Yeung Hong, the Gong Nam 7 Freaks, the Cheun Jen 7 Disciples, a few surviving Peach Blossom Island disciples and their children, the Jin mercenaries, 1 Deng's disciples, Ying Goo, a few Beggar's Union elders, some Iron Palm Union fighters (other than Kau Cheen Yan, who was effectively a Great) and Gwok Jing and Wong Yung.

By comparison, in ROCH, you had Ancient Tomb Sect members (six of them: the two leads plus Lee Mok Sau, her elder disciple, Luk Mo Seung, and Granny Sheun), five surviving Cheun Jen Sect Elders, the third and fourth generation Cheun Jen Sect acolytes, the Gwok children and disciples (Mo Brothers), Yeh Lut Chai and his siblings, remaining Peach Blossom Island disciples (no more Mui Chiu Fung, Chan Yeun Fung, or Luk Sing Fung, but in their place Sor Goo, Ching Ying, and Fung Mak Fung), the Golden Wheel Monk's followers (Fok Do, Dat Yee Ba, and the Five Uglies of Tibet), Kublai Khan's four mercenaries, the warriors of Passionless Valley, 1 Deng's disciples again, Ying Goo, and the various wulin friends that Yeung Gor made during the 16-year wait for Little Dragon Girl.

Jin Yong definitely showed us more of wulin in ROCH than in LOCH.

[Ken Cheng]

yes in fact i would . but if it were too much time, summary or directed chapter is fine too .

sure 7 freaks were 1st class...that would make qiu chu ji superman woudn't it? since 7 freaks were barely 1 qiu chu ji and by dears, 5 or 6 2nd generation quan zhen diciples were barely able to handle 1 HYS...and this is with the dipper formation (i think.... )

The Cheun Jen 7 Disciples needed to have all seven original members using the formation to match with East Heretic Wong Yerk See. After Tam Chui Deun died and was replaced by the much weaker Wan Tze Ping, the formation was no longer powerful enough to handle a Great. When Gwok Jing took Wan's place, however, the formation became more powerful than a Great, and Wong Yerk See started to get overwhelmed.

[Ren Ying Ying]

oh well, still, my point....just cuz JY classified 7 freaks as 1st class fighters...doesn't mean crap