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Thread: What should a wuxia hero do if ..

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    Moderator kidd's Avatar
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    Default What should a wuxia hero do if ..

    What should a wuxia hero do if ..

    1) .. his mother killed his father?
    2) .. his father killed his mother?
    3) .. his father assasinated the King/Emperor?
    4) .. his parents killed his grandparents?
    5) .. the Emperor killed his parents?
    6) .. his parents killed his sibling?
    7) .. his parents killed the love of his life?
    8) .. his best friend killed his father?
    9) .. his best friend's or lover's father killed his father?
    10).. the love of his life killed his father?
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

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    Senior Member HuangYushi's Avatar
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    Tough questions....

    ... but a true wuxia hero would be someone who would have better control over his emotions that the ordinary guy in the street. Therefore, despite feeling angry, hurt, indignant, etc, he *might*:

    1. ... first find out from his mother why she killed his father.
    2. ... first find out from his father why he killed his mother.
    3. ... first find out what the King/Emperor had been doing before he was killed. Was he oppressing the common people, or being lax/negligent in his administration and thus causing the common people to suffer gross injustice?
    4. ... first find out from his parents why they killed his grandparents.
    5. ... first scream/shout/tantrum; then make a calm and serious attempt to find out why the King/Emperor killed his parents. Then, seek redress if the killing was unjustified. Loyalty to the King/Emperor [zhong1 忠] is dependant on the character of the King/Emperor himself.
    6. ... first find out from his parents why they killed his sibling.
    7. ... first scream/shout/tantrum; then calm down and find out from his parents why they killed the love of his life because of his filial piety [xiao4 孝] towards his parents.
    8. ... first scream/shout/tantrum; then calm down and find out from his best friend why he killed his parents because of his sense of loyalty [yi4 义] towards his best friend.
    9. ... first scream/shout/tantrum; then calm down and find out from his best friend/lover and/or the friend/lover's father why that father killed his parents because his sense of fair-play necessitates that he give them a chance to explain themselves.
    10. ... first scream/shout/tantrum for an extended period of time; then calm down and find out from the love of his life why she killed his father because his sense of fair-play necessitates that he give her a chance to explain herself. Finally, break up because of his filial piety towards his parents.

    A true wuxia hero will do his utmost best to avoid killing another in revenge, because he would have understood the oft-quoted saying: 冤怨相报何时了? "When will the cycles of revenge end?"

    My 2 cents...

    HYS
    Last edited by HuangYushi; 07-18-06 at 04:14 AM.
    Jin Yong's Ode to Gallantry [侠客行].
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    The whole genre is based on revenge.

    A true wuxia hero will go and kill his enemy's entire house. If the enemy is in your own house, then one sides with whoever is older. Failing that, jump off a cliff.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K2Grey
    The whole genre is based on revenge.
    Unless it's Cheung Mo Gei, of course, who will probably try to persuade everyone to forget about revenge and coexist in peace.

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    Senior Member yittz's Avatar
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    What if they don't die from that?

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    Senior Member HuangYushi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K2Grey
    The whole genre is based on revenge.
    In "wuxia" [武侠], "wu" functions as an adjective which describes the "xia".

    The ways of a "xia" have their foundations in loyalty, filial piety, righteousness, justice and benevolence. "Wu" describes one of the ways in which a particular strain of "xia" acts, while still based on the loyalty, filial piety, righteousness, justice and benevolence that already exist.

    Therefore, a true "xia" will try to rise above revenge and use his "wu" for loyalty, filial piety, righteousness, justice and benevolence.

    The genre that focuses on revenge and the use of "wu" as a means to obtain it, should be called "wuda" [武打].
    Jin Yong's Ode to Gallantry [侠客行].
    Quote Originally Posted by atlantean0208
    what about SPT, I need my SPT fix ASAP, pretty pleaseeeee...
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    Senior Member The Khan's Avatar
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    Imagine a story where all 10 things happened to the hero

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Khan
    Imagine a story where all 10 things happened to the hero
    that's almost impossible considering that some of these are mutually exclusive . . But if it ever happened, that is one effed up storyline. More effed up than Linked Cities.
    Momma told me it's impolite to SPAM here.

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    Senior Member Extremer88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Khan
    Imagine a story where all 10 things happened to the hero
    How? His mother killed his father, but how his father kill his mother when's he's already dead? Unless, they died together while fighting.
    ..ext88

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    So, the Emperor forces his father and mother to kil each other, but before that they kill his grandparents, siblings, and the love of his life out of insanity. His father poisoned the Emperor so that he would die afterwards. All of this occured because his best friend and the father thereof schemed to get the hero's parents in trouble.

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    Moderator kidd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuangYushi
    Tough questions....

    ... but a true wuxia hero would be someone who would have better control over his emotions that the ordinary guy in the street. Therefore, despite feeling angry, hurt, indignant, etc, he *might*:

    1. ... first find out from his mother why she killed his father.
    2. ... first find out from his father why he killed his mother.
    3. ... first find out what the King/Emperor had been doing before he was killed. Was he oppressing the common people, or being lax/negligent in his administration and thus causing the common people to suffer gross injustice?
    4. ... first find out from his parents why they killed his grandparents.
    5. ... first scream/shout/tantrum; then make a calm and serious attempt to find out why the King/Emperor killed his parents. Then, seek redress if the killing was unjustified. Loyalty to the King/Emperor [zhong1 忠] is dependant on the character of the King/Emperor himself.
    6. ... first find out from his parents why they killed his sibling.
    7. ... first scream/shout/tantrum; then calm down and find out from his parents why they killed the love of his life because of his filial piety [xiao4 孝] towards his parents.
    8. ... first scream/shout/tantrum; then calm down and find out from his best friend why he killed his parents because of his sense of loyalty [yi4 义] towards his best friend.
    9. ... first scream/shout/tantrum; then calm down and find out from his best friend/lover and/or the friend/lover's father why that father killed his parents because his sense of fair-play necessitates that he give them a chance to explain themselves.
    10. ... first scream/shout/tantrum for an extended period of time; then calm down and find out from the love of his life why she killed his father because his sense of fair-play necessitates that he give her a chance to explain herself. Finally, break up because of his filial piety towards his parents.

    A true wuxia hero will do his utmost best to avoid killing another in revenge, because he would have understood the oft-quoted saying: 冤怨相报何时了? "When will the cycles of revenge end?"

    My 2 cents...

    HYS
    So many tantrum throwing and screaming.

    Your wuxia hero very sensible unlike the wuxia heroes most of wuxia serials/books I've watched/read (with the exception of ZWJ). They usually go 'u kill my father so I must kill u no matter what'. They also usually ended up not taking revenge if the killer was good/pitiful/have good reasons/for the common good. But these usually only happened in the end. I think ZWJ is the only one who forgo revenge very early in the story.

    Btw, question 9 is the situation faced by Hu Fei in Flying Fox Snowy Mountain.

    I always wonder about the hierarchy of importance of people around the wuxia hero. That's why I post the questions. Who must the wuxia hero be more loyal to? Father or mother? Emperor or father? Love of his life of parents?

    Followup questions:
    Quote Originally Posted by HuangYushi
    1. ... first find out from his mother why she killed his father.
    2. ... first find out from his father why he killed his mother.
    1) What if the reason is a selfish one?
    Example: Mother got rid father because she didn't love him anymore and want to be her lover. Father got rid of mother because father fell for another girl and mother won't let him take a concubine.

    2) What is the reason is an unselfish one?
    Example: The decease parent was a bad guy who was harming society, the other parent's friends/family.

    3) What if the reason is a in anger/forced/self-defense one?
    Example: Father killed mother because she has extra-marital affairs. Mother killed father because he's an abusive jerk.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

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    Senior Member The Khan's Avatar
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    1) .. his mother killed his father?
    2) .. his father killed his mother?
    3) .. his father assasinated the King/Emperor?
    4) .. his parents killed his grandparents?
    5) .. the Emperor killed his parents?
    6) .. his parents killed his sibling?
    7) .. his parents killed the love of his life?
    8) .. his best friend killed his father?
    9) .. his best friend's or lover's father killed his father?
    10).. the love of his life killed his father?
    __________________


    Ok let me try,

    Hero's father and mother are high ranking people born into a general's family, his grandparent tries to revolt and hero's father and mother kill them off to stop the revolt and show their loyalty but the emperor still orders his biological parents to death. and the hero is brought up together with one sibling by his father's followers who became foster parents whom the hero believes are his real parents since he was only a baby when his biological parents died. Hero grows up, learns kungfu and sets out into the world and meets the love of his life, who unbeknownst to him is actually a princess of the emperor. later in order to take revenge for his master, the hero's "father" assasinates the emperor in revenge,

    But in order to suceed hero's father learns some evil art and becomes a scourge onto the pugilist world and the hero and his best friend, brother and love try to stop his father. His mother is together with his father deciding to follow him through thick and thin. In the fight, hero's brother is killed by his father, hero's mother has a moment of repentance and decides to try and stop her husband, and teams up with hero's love to kill the father. They end up all perishing together. Leaving hero all alone.

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    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidd
    What should a wuxia hero do if ..
    My wuxia hero would kill everyone and live happily ever after.
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

    "I disapprove of what I say, but I will defend to the death my right to say it."

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    Senior Member bloodstar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidd
    Father got rid of mother because father fell for another girl and mother won't let him take a concubine.

    Mother killed father because he's an abusive jerk.
    This scenario sounds like Gong Sun Zhi and Qiu Qian Chi in ROCH.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Scenarios like this make HAMLET look like NAPOLEON DYNAMITE by comparison.

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    Senior Member HuangYushi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidd
    They usually go 'u kill my father so I must kill u no matter what'.
    That would be a "wuda" hero, not a "wuxia" one. True wuxia heroes, I believe, are often more sensible and in better control of their emotions than most. One example would be Bai Wanjian, who despite the death of his daughter and the break-up of his family remained quite in control of his emotions and goals. He didn't go berserk like someone in a "wuda" story might.

    I always wonder about the hierarchy of importance of people around the wuxia hero. That's why I post the questions. Who must the wuxia hero be more loyal to? Father or mother? Emperor or father? Love of his life of parents?
    I think a wuxia hero has, first and foremost, a foundation in basic Confucianist principles, such as loyalty to the King [忠], filial piety [孝], benevolence [仁] and righteousness/loyalty to friends [义]. However, due to the influences of the jianghu and other environmental factors, loyalty to the King does not usually or necessarily take first place.

    I believe that a wuxia hero would put his parents first [孝], without siding with the father or the mother. OK, I'm prepared to be boo-ed and pelted by feminists for saying the next line, but I really believe that truly intelligent women know their place as wife, mother and (in wuxia times) woman-pugilist [女侠], so the wuxia hero would not need to choose between his father or his mother when it comes to showing filial piety. A good example would be Ning Zhongce, Yue Buqun's wife.

    Second in line would be his brothers and sisters. The love of his life would be the third or even fourth, unless he has already married her. Reason being: If the love of his life (before marriage) sows discord between the wuxia hero and his siblings, the hero's parents will be grieved. That would be unfilial on the hero's part, so to pre-empt it, he would make a tough decision and forgo the love of his life. That is why wuxia heroes often end up with very nice wives.

    If the wuxia hero has sworn siblings, they would probably take third place after his blood siblings and before the unmarried love of his life. Best friends would probably share the same spot as the love of the hero's life; that could have been where the saying "重色轻友" (roughly, putting more attention on one's woman than one's friends) came from!

    Kings and emperors are fitted in only as and when necessary. However, I would think that most wuxia heroes would prefer to serve the country/nation rather than a particular king/emperor. For example, Xiao Feng agreed to work for Yelu Hongji not because YLHJ was King of Liao, but more because YLHJ was a "brother/friend" and because Xiao Feng himself was Liao/Khitan. In LOCH/ROCH, Guo Jing and Huang Rong probably did not think very well of the Song Emperor(s) of that period, but they defended Xiangyang anyway, because of their loyalty to the country.

    1) What if the reason is a selfish one?
    Example: Mother got rid father because she didn't love him anymore and want to be her lover. Father got rid of mother because father fell for another girl and mother won't let him take a concubine.
    About the mother: Bad idea, but I think the wuxia hero would still show her some basic filial piety, like greet her "mother/ma/niang" if he saw her and bury her if she died.
    About the father: Worse idea. I think the wuxia hero would show his father some basic filial piety, but his heightened sense of justice would eventually lead him to side with his mother.

    2) What is the reason is an unselfish one?
    Example: The decease parent was a bad guy who was harming society, the other parent's friends/family.
    That would be a very painful, but eventually acceptable fact of life.

    3) What if the reason is a in anger/forced/self-defense one?
    Example: Father killed mother because she has extra-marital affairs. Mother killed father because he's an abusive jerk.
    The wuxia hero would just put together the answers for (1) and (2).

    Man, I've got to stop being so long-winded...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Khan
    Hero's father and mother are high ranking people born into a general's family, his grandparent tries to revolt and hero's father and mother kill them off to stop the revolt and show their loyalty but the emperor still orders his biological parents to death. and the hero is brought up together with one sibling by his father's followers who became foster parents whom the hero believes are his real parents since he was only a baby when his biological parents died. Hero grows up, learns kungfu and sets out into the world and meets the love of his life, who unbeknownst to him is actually a princess of the emperor. later in order to take revenge for his master, the hero's "father" assasinates the emperor in revenge,

    But in order to suceed hero's father learns some evil art and becomes a scourge onto the pugilist world and the hero and his best friend, brother and love try to stop his father. His mother is together with his father deciding to follow him through thick and thin. In the fight, hero's brother is killed by his father, hero's mother has a moment of repentance and decides to try and stop her husband, and teams up with hero's love to kill the father. They end up all perishing together. Leaving hero all alone.
    Hmmm... sounds vaguely similar to TVB's recent adaptation of Wen Rui'an's "Spear of Alarm".
    Last edited by HuangYushi; 09-21-06 at 04:37 AM. Reason: Unforgivable typo
    Jin Yong's Ode to Gallantry [侠客行].
    Quote Originally Posted by atlantean0208
    what about SPT, I need my SPT fix ASAP, pretty pleaseeeee...
    Soon ... SOON!

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    Quote Originally Posted by HuangYushi
    Hmmm... sounds vaguely similar to TVB's recent adaptation of Wen Rui'an "Spear of Alarm".
    The official title is 'Strike At Heart', but I prefer to call it by its *original title 'Beautiful Spear'.

    * The title that was used during filming and pre-production time.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

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    Senior Member HuangYushi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidd
    The official title is 'Strike At Heart', but I prefer to call it by its *original title 'Beautiful Spear'.

    * The title that was used during filming and pre-production time.
    OT: TVB has a knack for coming up with strange titles, like "Twin of Brothers" and "Cold Blood Warm Heart", that do not do justice to the corresponding Chinese ones.
    Jin Yong's Ode to Gallantry [侠客行].
    Quote Originally Posted by atlantean0208
    what about SPT, I need my SPT fix ASAP, pretty pleaseeeee...
    Soon ... SOON!

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    Moderator kidd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuangYushi
    OT: TVB has a knack for coming up with strange titles, like "Twin of Brothers" and "Cold Blood Warm Heart", that do not do justice to the corresponding Chinese ones.
    OT. What more, their official titles are usually worse than the unofficial ones.
    Examples:

    Palatial Sins -> War & Beauty
    Yummy Yummy -> Food For Life
    Courageous Kunlun -> Guts of Man
    The Warlords -> The Conquest (this change actually is not that bad, but I still prefer The Warlords)

    and of course

    Beautiful Spear -> Strike At Heart
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

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    Senior Member dragonite3579's Avatar
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    What should a wuxia hero do if ..

    1) .. his mother killed his father?he shld kill his mother
    2) .. his father killed his mother? he shld kill his father
    3) .. his father assasinated the King/Emperor?He shld run away and make a name for himself opposing the imperial court
    4) .. his parents killed his grandparents?heck care
    5) .. the Emperor killed his parents?kill the emperor
    6) .. his parents killed his sibling?scream and run arnd madly
    7) .. his parents killed the love of his life? fall down dead
    8) .. his best friend killed his father? kill his best friend and the entire family
    9) .. his best friend's or lover's father killed his father?kill the whole family except bez frend
    10).. the love of his life killed his father?die

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