Who's the top dog of amongst the heads of 5 alliance schools?

[Tazzy1972]

The 5 heads are :

1. Zuo Lengchan (Songshan)
2. Yue Buqun (Huashan)
3. Great Mr. Mo (Hengshan)
4. Priest Tianmen (Taishan)
5. Sister Dingxian (Heng-Shan)

The list above is my personal opinion of their levels.

[Athena]

The 5 heads are :

1. Zuo Lengchan (Songshan)
2. Yue Buqun (Huashan)
3. Great Mr. Mo (Hengshan)
4. Priest Tianmen (Taishan)
5. Sister Dingxian (Heng-Shan)

The list above is my personal opinion of their levels.

I would rate them as following:

1. Zuo Lengchan
2. Mr. Mo and Dingxian Shi-Tai
3. Reverend Tianmen
4. Yue Buqun (before castration)

I feel that Yue Buqun was quite weak compared to the other leaders.

[MysteriouX]

I would rate them as following:

1. Zuo Lengchan
2. Mr. Mo and Dingxian Shi-Tai
3. Reverend Tianmen
4. Yue Buqun (before castration)

I feel that Yue Buqun was quite weak compared to the other leaders.

But he had the Divine Art of Purple Twilight skill, so I dont think he would be much weaker then Mr. Mo or Dingxian Shi-Tai unless you only count for sword skills. Then I would have to say he is weaker.

[Tazzy1972]

not much is known abt Rev Tianmen right?

Is YBQ better than ZLC after PXJF?

[CFT]

To be an elite martial artist requires balance between internal and external skills. Also qualities like adapatability under pressure.

Before training PiXie he had good internal due to training the Divine Art of Purple Twilight, after training PiXie he had excellent internal which compensated for his inferior external skills. However, in the end he was let down by his ability to improvise and adapt in real battle and by cycling through the limited external stances of PiXie, LHC was able to predict his movements.

[Athena]

But he had the Divine Art of Purple Twilight skill, so I dont think he would be much weaker then Mr. Mo or Dingxian Shi-Tai unless you only count for sword skills. Then I would have to say he is weaker.

There are a number of reasons why I rank him that way. Most of it (practically all of it is circumstantial). Therefore, my ranking is very subjective.

1. When reverend Tianmen and Yue Buqun were guests at the residence of Liu Zhengfeng. There was a comment by the author that of all the guests, reverend Tianmen had the highest status and prestige of all the guests (including Yue Buqun). I do realise that this means very little or even nothing. But usually in the realm of martial arts prestige and martial arts level go together. (This, of course, is speculative).

2. Dingri Shi-Tai and Yu Canghai were estimated to be roughly equals of each other. Both Yu Canghai and Dingri Shi-Tai felt that if they fought neither of them would have a clear advantage over the other. Yue Buqun and Yu Canghai duelled and Yue was the winner. But judging by things, he did not seem to have a very big advantage over Yu Canghai. Again one could say that Yue Buqun was holding up his [gentleman] facade and did not go all out. But, it didn't feel that way to me. Dingxian Shi-Tai is known to be the very much superior to her two martial arts sisters. (Again this argument is speculative). If we assume that Yu Canghai is only a little bit better than Yue Buqun, we should also take into consideration that in the novel (chapter four) there is a comment that Yu feared Tianmen quite a lot.

3. Although a lot of people in Wulin say that Madame Yue's martial arts are not inferior to her husband, this is not true. He is better than her. But in the novel, there was a comment by the author that Yue Buqun was "only" half a level better than Madame Yue. Madame Yue is good, but she's hardly one of the top-notch experts of the Five Sacred Mountain Sword Schools.

4. One of the Sword faction experts Cheng Buyou was able to impress and even scared Madame Yue with his display of swordsmanship. I believe that Madame Yue and Yue Buqun were roughly equals. So, it's debatable if Yue could defeat Cheng or not. Although I have to give credit to Yue Buqun for his nerves, he allowed Cheng to pierce holes into his robe and a smile never left his face. He gave all his adversaries the idea that he was clearly a very powerful martial arts expert, whereas in fact it remains to be seen whether he could actually defeat Cheng Buyou let alone the far superior Feng Buping.

5. Feng Buping's martial arts are very impressive. From everything we've seen of Feng, it is very likely he was quite superior to Yue Buqun. I have a friend who has a copy of the very first edition of the Smiling Proud Wanderer (this edition was published almost 40 years ago). In this edition, there were some indirect comparisons between Feng and Yue. There was a comment like this:"The energy released from Feng's Swift Gale Swordsmanship was very powerful, in the entire Huashan School only Yue Buqun's Zixia Shengong MIGHT be able to match it." Might be able doesn't sound to convincing to me, my friend also told me that in the first edition that fighting scene between Linghu and Feng was much longer than in the newer editions. (Old edition: And even the spectators felt that the Feng Buping was the right choice to assume leadership of the Huashan School because of his powerful internal energy and good swordsmanship. Unfortunately, Jin Yong cut the fight short between Linghu Chong and Feng Buping as result that comment was removed too. (Again this argument is subjective)

6. When Yue Buqun and Linghu Chong fought in the Shaolin Monastery a lot of other martial arts experts were present to watch that fight. One of those people was Mr Mo Da. Yue Buqun deliberately broke one of his legs at the end. Before that he threw everything in that fight (except Pixie Swordsmanship, at that time he had already learnt it. Otherwise he was incapable of killing both Dingxiang and Dingri Shi-Tai). So, although Yue Buqun had raised his martial arts at that point of the story, he fought in prior castration mode. Mo Da rated Yue as:"Well, at least I won't lose to him" during the Songshan Meet. The term [不至于] was used; this term is usually used to indicate unlikeliness, worst case scenario and such. In my opinion, Mo Da's comment was:"In the worst case scenario I will only be able to reach a draw with him, but in all likelihood I will be able to kick his derriere."
Furthermore, Mo Da is a very calculating man. He will only fight battles, he knows he can win. So, obviously by challenging Yue Buqun he felt a certain degree of confidence that he would be able to win. Unfortunately, they never fought. Perhaps, it was better. Mo Da would be no match for castrated Yue Buqun.

7. During the same Songshan gathering. Yuyin Zi, one of Taishan school's experts thought, before he was to fight Yue Lingshan:"Yue Buqun and his wife are the only ones who are able to match me." Throughout the story we know that the Five Schools had held gatherings in the past on different locations to socialize (friendly duels) with each other. It is highly likely that during those gatherings in the past that Yuyin Zi was able to gauge the martial arts levels of Yue Buqun and Madame Yue. Yuyin Zi was hardly someone who struck me as being better than his martial arts brother Yuji Zi. Who in his turn did not strike me as being much better than Tianmen. (Again a very speculative argument).

In the end The Divine Art of Purple Twilight is a good internal energy cultivation formula. But hardly the invincible type a la Jiuyang, Yijing Jing etc. I think the internal energy cultivation methods of the other Four Schools are certainly not inferior to that The Divine Art of Purple Twilight, maybe not as solid or safe.

[tape]

<3 the details of Athena's replies.

[kyss of the sword]

huashan may have a special inner power skill, but that does not mean the other schools do not. each of the five skills have advanced skills in inner power, sword and palms.

[Dirt]

Perhaps Zixia Shengong was better than the man practicing it. After all, even after learning BXJF, Yue Buqun continued to steadfastly use the moves he found within instead of just taking advantage of the speed or Huashan Jian Fa. Not the actions of a brilliant martial mind.

[Ian Liew]

Was Yu Buqun's swordplay good good enough to hold its own, though? He lacked the DG9J which Linghu Chong and Feng Qingyang had, or even the Raging Wind Fast Sword which Feng Buping used. IIRC he used something called Life-taking Linked Rings Three Immortals Sword, which might not have been a great skill since his focus was always on internal energy rather than swordsmanship. Perhaps Lin Yuantu's simplistic swordplay, while no match for the better arts, was still superior to the Three Immortals Sword?