Why didn't North Beggar Hung 7 Gung's HL18 Palms get modified?

[Ken Cheng]

After Gwok Jing mastered the 9 Yum Jen Ging, he used the ideas he learned from the manual to modify and improve upon the Hong Lung 18 Palms that his teacher, North Beggar Hung 7 Gung, originally taught to him.

After being injured by West Poison Au Yeung Fung, Hung 7 Gung also studied the 9 Yum Jen Ging to recover his martial arts. Hung 7 Gung's Hong Lung 18 Palms, however, did not change. Why not? Is it just because Hung 7 Gung did not study as much of the 9 Yum Jen Ging as Gwok Jing did?

[Whsie]

I think that's it. Not enough.

[AnhHung]

Modifying HL18Z is not a matter of putting one and one. Although they both study 9Yin and HL18Z, it doesnt automatic means that they would end up with the same thing. Many have pointed out that GJ, although slow and rather dumb, is an excellent MA artist. He has the ability to comprehend something that others cant.

H7Q may have been restrained by convention and tradition; the thought of mixing two MA together seems unpure.

[kyss of the sword]

what guo jing modified was the inner power aspect, the external aspect was the same as HQG's. HQG did beneift vastly from the little bit of 9yin he practised. but his internal school was still vastly different from guo jing who was able to combine the best aspect of quezhen and 9yin(non-snaskrit portion) inner power since both were extremely similar. HQG absorbed the 9yin power aspect into his own but his original style of 'opposing extremes' remained. since that was the original inner power aspect of HL18Z, no need for him to change. he was already too set in his martial arts to change it too much.

[Ken Cheng]

It's just like that old saw about old dogs and new tricks.

[IcyFox]

I think he did get them modded.
You might want to ask Huang YuShi.

[Pacifian]

洪七公曾听郭靖、黄蓉背诵真经中的一小部份，与
自己原来武功一加印证，也是大有进境，毕竟正胜于逆，虽然所知不多，却也不轮于西毒。
He did modify his XL18Z a little, which improved his overall martial arts prowess by a lot.

[IcyFox]

He did modify his XL18Z a little, which improved his overall martial arts prowess by a lot.

Thumbs up to you, but it seems to me that His Majesty King Ken only believes the words of his Royal Advisors Athena and Huang YuShi.

[duguxiaojing]

[QUOTE][He did modify his XL18Z a little, which improved his overall martial arts prowess by a lot./QUOTE]


His martial arts in general were said to have improved but it dosent necsessarily mean he modified the 18DPs after receving that small portion of 9yin. Maybe there was no need to? After the 3rd edition changes his palms may not be inferior to GJ's at all.

[Whsie]

I can't be sure, but I'm thinking that GJ maybe modified 16 stances(not including the 13 level internal energy thingy). In 3rd edition of LOCH, it said that XL18Z's Konglong you hwai and the 16th stance have a good balance in yang/yin. But seeing GJ's 9 Yin with the philosophy of trying to get yin/yang balance, GJ possibly may have also modified the remaining 16 stances into a good balance of yin/yang.
In addition, I think GJ still does have a better XL18Z than H7G.
Reason?
Though the new edition no longer says GJ is better than H7G in XL18Z during the mongol fight, it still mentioned GJ surpassing H7G on Kong Long You Hwai, more specifically on the reserve energy part.
According to H7G when H7G first taught XL18Z to GJ, Kong Long You Hwai is the basis of all the other palms(I think this was said in the 3rd edition, correct me if I'm wrong. I won't blame others). If you understand this stance, then the rest will be easier to learn because the concept is the same in the energy use. Since GJ made the modification of 13 levels of reserve energy (which is better than H7G's use of energy ), I don't see why GJ didn't make the change to the remaining 17 stances. Result? GJ has a better XL18Z than H7G.

[CFT]

洪七公曾听郭靖、黄蓉背诵真经中的一小部份，与
自己原来武功一加印证，也是大有进境，毕竟正胜于逆，虽然所知不多，却也不轮于西毒。
He did modify his XL18Z a little, which improved his overall martial arts prowess by a lot.

What chapter does this come from? This short excerpt does not state directly that the XL18Z was changed by H7G unlike the description the change in energy useage implemented by GJ.

[Pacifian]

What chapter does this come from? This short excerpt does not state directly that the XL18Z was changed by H7G unlike the description the change in energy useage implemented by GJ.

Chapter 11.

I loathe quoting, but well..

他与洪七公是数十年的死仇，憎恶之意深印于脑，此时虽不明所以，但自然而然的见到他就生气。洪七公见他呆呆 站立，目中忽露凶光，暗自戒备，果然听他大吼一声，恶狠狠的扑将上来，当下不敢怠慢，出手就是降龙十八掌的掌法。两人襟带朔风，足踏寒冰，在这宽仅尺许的窄道上各逞平生绝技，倾力以搏。一边是万丈深渊，只要稍有差失，便 是粉身碎骨之祸，比之平地相斗，倍增凶险。二人此时年事已高，精力虽已衰退，武学上的修为却俱臻炉火纯青之 境，招数精奥，深得醇厚稳实之妙脂，只拆得十余招，两人不由得都是心下钦佩。

Being mortal enemies, H7G would use his XL18Z definitely, as given by the abovementioned bolded part. Now read the bottom part, which comes exactly 4 lines after the above quote.

拆了数十招后，杨过见二人虽在对方凌厉无伦的攻击之下总是能化险为夷，便不再挂虑双方安危，只潜心细看柯妙 武功。九阴真经乃天下武术总纲，他所知者虽只零碎片断，但时见二人所使招数与真经要义暗合，不由得惊喜无已，心想：“真经中平平常常一句话，原来能有这许多推衍变化。”

Without the slightest indication that H7G switched to using an alternate kung fu, JY mentioned that both Greats have sort of combined the essence of 9 Yin into their martial arts in the underlines part. The italic part shows that YG recognised 9 Yin in the strokes of both Greats, after seeing the 9 Yin Scripture before.

Also, the italic part also mentioned that H7G incorporated the complex variations of 9 Yin into his martial arts, not just his energy as stated in the excerpt of GJ XL18Z.

[CFT]

Thanks Pacifian. Knowing the context helps.

So from the quoted text it does look like H7G has internalized the teachings of the 9Yin and express it in combat.

The funny thing is the the "Reverse" 9Yin of OYF is recognizably 9Yin.

[Whsie]

What chapter does this come from? This short excerpt does not state directly that the XL18Z was changed by H7G unlike the description the change in energy useage implemented by GJ.

It came from chapter 10 or 11. It does not directly state it, but I think it hints it a bit. However, this really can't be used as evidence for improvement upon XL18Z.

And though H7G would use XL18Z always, he used only 10% at first .

[kyss of the sword]

both HQG and OYF incorparated the parts of 9yin they got into their dragon palms and toad stance to make more variations. OYF fought upside down with hamagong. HQG HL18Z already had endless variations, according to guo jing's thoughts, with 9yin, he added more refined variations.