How can the Greats win from Little Dragon Girl?

[PJ]

Most of us probably agree that Dragon Girl is less impressive than a ROCH Great in martial arts. Considering that Golden Wheel Monk could only resort to mostly defending when facing Dragon Girl; and considering that she was so fast that XiaoxiangZi, Nimoxing, Yin Kexi, and the 5 Masters of Quanzheng couldn't see through her stances at all, how can any Great defeat her? Assuming she wields as many swords as she wants.

[Ken Cheng]

Quite easily, actually. For all of his great power, the Golden Wheel Monk had comparatively poor techniques, making him prey to Little Dragon Girl's fancy quick attacks. The other Greats, however, all have good techniques to match their superior inner power. Gwok Jing, especially, would give Little Dragon Girl problems with his 9 Yum Jen Ging skills (and he loses nothing in Left/Right Hand Technique since he's an expert practitioner of the skill himself).

[Whsie]

assuming having as much sword as possible, the Greats are pretty much screwed . If it's limited to 2, then the Greats can win. Any person who has learn the 3 arts of 9 Yin that XLN/YG first learned can counter Jade Maiden's fake/real stance confusion. From that point on, the match would be decided by who's level of art is higher which the Greats are superior. Though controversial, but power may possibly also break through such as XL18Z or Melancholic Sad Palm.

[Ken Cheng]

Though controversial, but power may possibly also break through such as XL18Z or Melancholic Sad Palm.

I believe it. Even the Golden Wheel Monk, who fared poorly against Little Dragon Girl, *could* have won if he'd fought smarter and played to his own strengths rather than Little Dragon Girl's. He could have defeated her if he just went all out with a power attack, but the bald-headed fool chose to try to match her in technique. That was a fatal strategic error on the Golden Wheel Monk's part.

[Whsie]

I believe it. Even the Golden Wheel Monk, who fared poorly against Little Dragon Girl, *could* have won if he'd fought smarter and played to his own strengths rather than Little Dragon Girl's. He could have defeated her if he just went all out with a power attack, but the bald-headed fool chose to try to match her in technique. That was a fatal strategic error on the Golden Wheel Monk's part.

We all know how bad JLFW can fight . And to be honest, I have my beliefs too that power and focused energy attacks may be enough to overwhelm.
Power relies on pure brute force. Finger attacks can work of 2 way. 1 is just rely on the power. 2. Mess up one side somehow and there temporary would be a open chance.

[kyss of the sword]

JLFW did not have poor techniques. his skills were amazing, not just his internal cultivation techniques but his external. his five cyclone wheels were as good as gongsun zhi's yinyang sabre, which was called by the author as one of the best skills in wulin. JLFW's palm techniques were at least as good as QQR's iron palm skill (which was only slightly inferior to yiyang finger and HL18Z). both HQG and OYF praised his granddisciples (the five tibthen uglies) martial arts as excellent. zhuzili was yideng's best disciple and he said huodu's martial arts were the most dangerous he had encountered. at the loveless valley, a single great couldn't hold him back and had to resort to numbers, and QQR died at his hands. the other greats, even ZBT couldn't do better against XLN. even ZBT was suprised when he saw XLN using maiden purity skill with her hands inside the cave after she mastered L/R technique. through he could use two techniques together, he did not possess two seperate skills that could work together to increase it's effectiveness like she did. he might not have won either.

originally by whise.
assuming having as much sword as possible, the Greats are pretty much screwed . If it's limited to 2, then the Greats can win. Any person who has learn the 3 arts of 9 Yin that XLN/YG first learned can counter Jade Maiden's fake/real stance confusion. From that point on, the match would be decided by who's level of art is higher which the Greats are superior. Though controversial, but power may possibly also break through such as XL18Z or Melancholic Sad Palm

even through the greats knew parts of 9yin, they couldn't nessesarily break maiden swordplay. in order to break maiden swordplay, WCY had to include all the best moves and essence of 9yin in the writing he left behind. through it did not contain all the theories, all of the main points were there. maiden swordplay could beat QZ which was similar enough to 9yin that you could practise 9yin external techniques with QZ teachings. a small part of 9yin which the greats knew would not be enough to overcome all the moves. plus with ancient tomb (+QZand 9yin), YG and XLN were said to possess the best skills in the world. they probably knew more 9yin then the other greats except ZBT. even knowing maiden purity swordplay inside out, YG did not think the other skills he learned from the greats could beat it, untill he learned heavy sword. with L/R technique, except for DGKB heavy sword method, the greats may not beat her. XLN was probably not below GJ's level at the end of LOCH.

[Ken Cheng]

YG and XLN were said to possess the best skills in the world. they probably knew more 9yin then the other greats except ZBT.

Even Chow Bak Tung was missing the crucial Sanskrit portion. The only person in the CONDOR HEROES TRILOGY other than Wong Seung to have the whole kit and kaboodle of the 9 Yum Jen Ging was Gwok Jing.

[IcyFox]

Just imagine... if Wang Chong Yang actually paired up with Lin Chao Yin, would even Huang Shang be able to defeat them?

And now imagine... how well did XLN simulate such a situation?

[ChronoReverse]

Just do as Guo Jing does. Start breaking swords. XLN can't stop that with her inferior energy. Of the Greats alive at the end of ROCH, YD would probably have the most trouble. HYS has his Might Finger Snap range. YG has the Heavy Iron Sword. GJ has all the tools to counter XLN's. ZBT also has the same.

[duguxiaojing]

Just do as Guo Jing does. Start breaking swords. XLN can't stop that with her inferior energy. Of the Greats alive at the end of ROCH, YD would probably have the most trouble. HYS has his Might Finger Snap range. YG has the Heavy Iron Sword. GJ has all the tools to counter XLN's. ZBT also has the same.

Hmm.. Idunno if they could break her swords that easily, or else GWM who has far superior inner power to XLN would have done so with his wheels early on. But if the fight carried on for a long time it proboaly would happen eventually(just like in the fight at CY temple IIRC).

I dont think it would be smart to fight XLN bare handed though, even for a great level fighter it would proboally be smart to bring a weapon.

[ChronoReverse]

I doubt the Greats can win without a weapon. HYS's snap requires a pebble for true ranged attacks.

In any case, GLGS really failed when he tried to match XLN at her forte =/

[minutemanwayne]

I doubt the Greats can win without a weapon. HYS's snap requires a pebble for true ranged attacks.

In any case, GLGS really failed when he tried to match XLN at her forte =/

I believe during the fight between HYS and GWM, HYF was firing pure chi attacks.

[ChronoReverse]

He was still a hundred paces or so away from the forest, but he did not know who shot that little stone towards him. The energy was incredible, although it was only a small stone but the whooshing sound emitted from it was very loud. It was aimed directly in his face. The Imperial Priest raised his silver wheel and blocked the stone. It broke into ten small pieces and scattered around; but two of them hit him on the face. He was not injured, but he certainly felt the pain.

Definitely a pebble.

TZST can be used directly with the finger on a target (Guo Jing knocking swords out) and can fire chi force (HYS closing doors at range), but I personally think the most threatening part is when pebbles are shot out with it. That way, the LDA distance limitation is eliminated and the full force carried a greater distance.

[Whsie]

Even with pebble, HYS's Divine Flick is no push over. JLFW obviously was shocked at the pebble's power that was fired from hundreds of steps away(which LDA can't reach).

[ChronoReverse]

Who said anything about it being a pushover? I just praised the use of it since it allows the full power to be transmitted a greater distance.

[Whsie]

And I never said it was on you. Some people in past (most particulary Kenny who long time retired) think using pebbles show less skill. But then again, it's impossible for even Sweeper to use LDA at hundreds of steps away.

[Bai Qi44]

That's not exactly what Kenny meant. He meant using a pebble (or a physical item) to acheive the same goals attained by using a LDA is inferior, which is pretty reasonable.

[ChronoReverse]

Well, the use of the pebble here surpasses what any LDA can do (in range). That is, transmit shattering power a great distance.

[Whsie]

yea, that's what I meant. HYS had to use pebbles in the JLFW case because it was out of LDA range.

[kyss of the sword]

TZST without a pebble doesn't have a bigger range then yiyangzhi or HL18Z, or elephant dragon skill. but with refined qi, you can send a pebble out as forcefull as an arrow. (at loveless valley, yang guo flicked a pebble at LMC to save cheng ying but because his inner power wasn't refined enough, through it was high, the pebble lacked enough force to hurt LMC.)

HYS could probably flick pebble at XLN from a distance but she could probably avoid those with her speed. he would have a better chance trying to flick her swords at closer range but probably not more effective then elephant dragon skill. ancient tomb skills use 'borrowing force' and 'use softness to over come the opponent' as well as speed. it's harder to flick away a weapon that uses a sort technique then one that does a hard one. besides, XLN isn't stupid enough to directly face an opponent who's inner power exceeds hers. she has enough inner power to resist the greats mighter force, and she will use agilty to fight them. she won't meet weapons directly. it's a sure way to lose. she's smarter then that.