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Thread: Did Guo Xiang encounter both Yang Guo and Xiaolongnu again after ROCH?

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    Senior Member Extremer88's Avatar
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    Post Did Guo Xiang encounter both Yang Guo and Xiaolongnu again after ROCH?

    Did Guo Xiang encounter both Yang Guo and Xiaolongnu again after ROCH?

    If not, when was the Heavy Iron Sword given to Guo Xiang???
    ..ext88

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    Senior Member kyss of the sword's Avatar
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    no, guo xiang never met yang guo and xao long nu again. the sword was sent to her by her parents.

    here's something to think about. heavy sword weighs 64jin. gentleman and maiden swords were 'light as whips'(3jins each?estimate). together say, 70jin.
    dragon saber weighs 50jin. heaven sword is heavy, never mentioned how much but around 20 jin?(estimate). the three swords were made out of unique metals, metaled down and combined, and turned into a saber and sword.(1st version of HSDS). in (2nd version), heavy sword turned into dragon saber and gentleman/madien swords turned into heaven sword(possibly with leftover metal from heavy sword). the dragon saber is supposed to contain a plaque that shows the way to peach blosson island. heaven sword is supposed to saw a niche at dragon saber's hilt to release the plaque.

    saber given to guo polu who was with parents at xiangyang when mongolians attacked. sword sent to guo xiang who was elsewhere looking for yang guo and xiao long nu.
    THE KYSS OF THE SWORD IS DEADLY BUT EXQUSITE
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    Senior Member junzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyss of the sword

    here's something to think about. heavy sword weighs 64jin. gentleman and the dragon saber is supposed to contain a plaque that shows the way to peach blosson island. heaven sword is supposed to saw a niche at dragon saber's hilt to release the plaque.
    You sure? I thought the sword and the sabre contained Jiu Yin Zhen Jing and Wu Mu Yi Shu (can't remember which contained which though)?

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    Senior Member 0-0-0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by junzi
    You sure? I thought the sword and the sabre contained Jiu Yin Zhen Jing and Wu Mu Yi Shu (can't remember which contained which though)?
    it's different in the revised edition i believe. The one i read had the 9YZJ and Wu Mu Yi Shu in the heavenly sword and dragon sabre, however in another edition, there is a map which ZZR follows to peach blossom island or something.

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    Senior Member junzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0-0-0
    it's different in the revised edition i believe. The one i read had the 9YZJ and Wu Mu Yi Shu in the heavenly sword and dragon sabre, however in another edition, there is a map which ZZR follows to peach blossom island or something.
    Ah, I'll have to get my hands on the third edition of HSDS sometime then. Thanks!

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    If the HS is supposed to saw at a niche in the DS's hilt, does that mean that in the 3rd edition now only the DS has to be broken in order to get the goodies, as opposed to the previous deal with both weapons shattering?

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    Senior Member The Khan's Avatar
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    It was sent DHL to GX

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    Senior Member Extremer88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Khan
    It was sent DHL to GX
    Why not FEDEX???
    ..ext88

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    'cuz DHL didn't start shipping in the US until the like last two - three years.

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    Senior Member Nan Ling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extremer88 View Post
    Why not FEDEX???
    lol.... too funny =)

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    Senior Member goodrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K2Grey View Post
    If the HS is supposed to saw at a niche in the DS's hilt, does that mean that in the 3rd edition now only the DS has to be broken in order to get the goodies, as opposed to the previous deal with both weapons shattering?
    Good point. We all thought that both the weapons would be destroyed as a result of trying to get the maps embedded inside them. But if the heaven sword is supposed to saw a niche at dragon saber's hilt to release the plaque, as one of the posters has suggested, then not sure why/how the heaven sword would be destroyed. Ideally it should not have to be destroyed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goodrick View Post
    Good point. We all thought that both the weapons would be destroyed as a result of trying to get the maps embedded inside them. But if the heaven sword is supposed to saw a niche at dragon saber's hilt to release the plaque, as one of the posters has suggested, then not sure why/how the heaven sword would be destroyed. Ideally it should not have to be destroyed.
    This information is inaccurate. There is a point on the flat of the sabre's blade 7 inches from the hilt, and on the sword's edge, also 7 inches from the hilt, that is disguised with a layer of soft iron. If you rub the sword against the sabre at that point, then saw teeth become exposed on both. You are then supposed to use them to saw each other apart.

    The sword contains a plaque with seven characters (普渡山東桃花島) giving the name and general location of Peach Blossom Island (incredibly poor value for money in my opinion...) while the sabre has a small map of where the manuals are hidden on the island.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Kwok View Post
    This information is inaccurate. There is a point on the flat of the sabre's blade 7 inches from the hilt, and on the sword's edge, also 7 inches from the hilt, that is disguised with a layer of soft iron. If you rub the sword against the sabre at that point, then saw teeth become exposed on both. You are then supposed to use them to saw each other apart.

    The sword contains a plaque with seven characters (普渡山東桃花島) giving the name and general location of Peach Blossom Island (incredibly poor value for money in my opinion...) while the sabre has a small map of where the manuals are hidden on the island.
    This all suggests that the design and construction of the two weapons (and their special features) was something done with great care and planning, not something done on the fly in an emergency. Clearly, Gwok Jing and Wong Yung had spent some time planning and preparing this...

    ...which raises the question...why THIS particular mode of preserving/passing down the secrets?

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    Indeed. The premise would be better if it was just a random powerful dude who made it (hence no need for a WHY), rather than making GJ/HR look like dummies with such a terrible plan.

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    The third edition has a paragraph addressing this issue in Miejue's dialogue when imprisoned in the tower:

    "Why did they not directly tell the location to their son and daughter, instead opting for such a roundabout method? It was because they predicted that if the war and martial arts manuals were revealed to the world too early, before a chance to expel the Mongolians appeared, if they got into the hands of evil people, then it would inevitably lead to dire consequences, and in the future might not be put to good use."

    So Jinyong is aware of the problem, but gives us a nonsensical answer - just how does this scheme keep it out of the hands of evil people, and into the hands of those who would expel the Mongolians, at the right time? The change to making the weapons contain a map to the manuals instead of the manuals directly was obviously made to account for the problem of how to fit lengthy manuals into the limited volume of a blade, and how the manuals would survive when the blades were heated during forging and the scene with the sabre at the beginning of the novel, but now, the weapons are no longer strictly necessary to obtain the manuals, which throws up other problems.

    Guo Fu was mentioned as being passed over for the task of inheriting one of the weapons as she was too bad-tempered and impulsive, but the third edition implies that GJ and HR did not trust their other children (or anyone else) either, which makes them look even worse. Unfortunately, I find that this is typical of third edition changes to address a flaw in the previous edition - it patches up that particular flaw, but opens up an even bigger one elsewhere...

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Kwok View Post
    The third edition has a paragraph addressing this issue in Miejue's dialogue when imprisoned in the tower:

    "Why did they not directly tell the location to their son and daughter, instead opting for such a roundabout method? It was because they predicted that if the war and martial arts manuals were revealed to the world too early, before a chance to expel the Mongolians appeared, if they got into the hands of evil people, then it would inevitably lead to dire consequences, and in the future might not be put to good use."

    So Jinyong is aware of the problem, but gives us a nonsensical answer - just how does this scheme keep it out of the hands of evil people, and into the hands of those who would expel the Mongolians, at the right time? The change to making the weapons contain a map to the manuals instead of the manuals directly was obviously made to account for the problem of how to fit lengthy manuals into the limited volume of a blade, and how the manuals would survive when the blades were heated during forging and the scene with the sabre at the beginning of the novel, but now, the weapons are no longer strictly necessary to obtain the manuals, which throws up other problems.

    Guo Fu was mentioned as being passed over for the task of inheriting one of the weapons as she was too bad-tempered and impulsive, but the third edition implies that GJ and HR did not trust their other children (or anyone else) either, which makes them look even worse. Unfortunately, I find that this is typical of third edition changes to address a flaw in the previous edition - it patches up that particular flaw, but opens up an even bigger one elsewhere...
    It would have been a whole lot easier if Jin Yong had written that the weapons were to be delivered to Yeung Gor, but the couriers ran into unexpected difficulties and the weapons never reached Yeung Gor.

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    Nothing really solves the problem of the weapons themselves being completely unnecessary though. Either pass on the manuals to people you can trust and hope for the best, or I guess bury it somewhere random like all the wuxia eccentrics do and leave it to fate. The weapons themselves were never really necessary, especially when weapons and promises of power more often than not attract people like Ouyang Feng more than a Xiao Feng or Guo Jing.

    I mean in the end the plan failed miserably, since the Ming Sect would have succeeded with or without the war manual, and all it did was cause endless bloodshed in wulin. I just wish someone like Xie Xun or Zhaomin pointed out how horrible the plan was.
    Last edited by tape; 08-11-15 at 08:06 PM.

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    Even as a last ditch effort I think this plan is so strange. It would REALLY suck if the Han people rallied together a century later and were about to win, but some random Mongolian got a hold of the sword/sabre and manuals, and then turned the tide of the war with the brilliant war tactics .

    Giving the manuals to like 2-3 people, tell them to hide in a cave and practice for a few decades, pass it onto their descendants and have them do the same thing is a better plan than sending these two weapons out into the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tape View Post
    I mean in the end the plan failed miserably, since the Ming Sect would have succeeded with or without the war manual, and all it did was cause endless bloodshed in wulin. I just wish someone like Xie Xun or Zhaomin pointed out how horrible the plan was.
    Failed miserably? Wasn't the Ming Sect use the war manual to overthrow the Yuan Dynasty? Perhaps the Ming Sect still win without the manual but the casualty would be much higher on their side. If Cheung Mo Gei didn't leave the Ming Sect, he would have found the Ming Dynasty instead of Chu Yuen Cheung. According to HSDS, Chu Yeun Cheung martial art level is very basic, far far below Cheung Mo Gei.

    Quote Originally Posted by tape View Post
    Even as a last ditch effort I think this plan is so strange. It would REALLY suck if the Han people rallied together a century later and were about to win, but some random Mongolian got a hold of the sword/sabre and manuals, and then turned the tide of the war with the brilliant war tactics .

    Giving the manuals to like 2-3 people, tell them to hide in a cave and practice for a few decades, pass it onto their descendants and have them do the same thing is a better plan than sending these two weapons out into the world.
    Then you don't have HSDS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    Failed miserably? Wasn't the Ming Sect use the war manual to overthrow the Yuan Dynasty? Perhaps the Ming Sect still win without the manual but the casualty would be much higher on their side. If Cheung Mo Gei didn't leave the Ming Sect, he would have found the Ming Dynasty instead of Chu Yuen Cheung. According to HSDS, Chu Yeun Cheung martial art level is very basic, far far below Cheung Mo Gei.
    Nah it was pretty clear that the Ming Sect shortly after the fight at Brightness Peak was pretty much unstoppable with a million+ strong army. The manual might have been useful during the siege at Shaolin, but even if everyone there was massacred (unlikely, the top fighters could always flee) it wouldn't have mattered much in the grand scheme of things; Wuji and all the important wulin members of the Ming Sect were made obsolete shortly afterwards anyway by Zhu Yuanzhang's scheming.

    That was really one of the biggest turnoffs of the novel for me -- that half the plot didn't actually matter, the heaven sword/dragon sabre didn't actually matter, and all the important characters were technically throwaways after the Brightness Peak battle. It could have been a good satire of those silly, righteous, wulin folk, but it wasn't, and it was just a story about people that took themselves too seriously while the real work was done by the millions of peasants that picked up their pitchforks and fought the Mongolians. "Wulin" as a whole disappointed me.

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