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Thread: Could YJJ or Bei Ming overcome the KHBD flaw?

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    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Default Could YJJ or Bei Ming overcome the KHBD flaw?

    The requirement of KHBD to castrate oneself is to stop oneself from going berserk from the sexual energy generated.

    With ultimate inner energy control skills like Yi Jin Jing and Bei Ming Shen Gong, do you think a martial artist can learn either YJJ or BMSG first, then learn KHBD without castration by converting whatever energy is generated by KHBD into Bei Ming Zhen Qi?

    That could be rather cheesy.

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    Well this leads to the question of whether females can learn KHBD.

    I don't think someone with YJJ or BMSG really _needs_ KHBD. Surely it is not the only martial art that makes you fast.

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K2Grey View Post
    I don't think someone with YJJ or BMSG really _needs_ KHBD.
    That's right

    But to the topic's point: YJJ practitioner shouldn't have any sexual desire, while the Beiming Shengong guy is just converting Kuihua Baodian internal energy into Beiming energy.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Senior Member Han Solo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CC View Post
    The requirement of KHBD to castrate oneself is to stop oneself from going berserk from the sexual energy generated.
    This is the other way round is it?

    I always thought that the danger is that the natural sexual desires of a human will interfere and play havoc with the cultivation of KHBD.

    I don't think that KHBD itself generates the sexual energy which interferes with KHBD- i.e. a massive negative feedback loop with maladaptive paths.

    Castration is postulated to reduce that sexual desire- thus enabling the learning of KHBD.

    However, KHBD is really really strange - if castration is meant to reduce the urges of sexual desire, how could one describes DFBB's lust for man??

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    Quote Originally Posted by bliss
    I think they're probably at the same level as or one level below Ah Qing, which is about the level of a 2nd or 3rd generation Quan Zhen disciple.
    Troll Control

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    Senior Member kyss of the sword's Avatar
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    KHBD uses a strange inner power technique that allows the user to move extremely fast. even if your inner power is at an ordinary level, it's the technique to use the qi that matters. YJJ at the highest level allows you to control your body and qi and you would be able to move as fast since your entire body acts to your will. BMSG would not help but maybe LBWW would allow you the same speed. YJJ may allow you to use the KHBD qi technique but then they may be too different to practise together.
    THE KYSS OF THE SWORD IS DEADLY BUT EXQUSITE
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    Senior Member ChanceEncounter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyss of the sword View Post
    KHBD uses a strange inner power technique that allows the user to move extremely fast. even if your inner power is at an ordinary level, it's the technique to use the qi that matters. YJJ at the highest level allows you to control your body and qi and you would be able to move as fast since your entire body acts to your will. BMSG would not help but maybe LBWW would allow you the same speed. YJJ may allow you to use the KHBD qi technique but then they may be too different to practise together.
    Just because YJJ gives the user control of his body (and one doesn't need YJJ to do that--ZBT was able to manipulate his body via his energy level, without YJJ), doesn't mean that it allows the practitioner to move as fast as KHBD.

    KHBD's speed is a special aspect of the manual, and it's meant to focus on giving the user superhuman speed. Kinda like how the Ancient Tomb martial arts focused on lightness, the entire purpose of the KHBD is to overwhelm opponents with pure speed. YJJ has plenty of other benefits, but an equivalently trained KHBD practictioner would be faster than an equivalently trained YJJ practitioner.

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    Senior Member Extremer88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChanceEncounter View Post
    KHBD's speed is a special aspect of the manual, and it's meant to focus on giving the user superhuman speed.
    Not exactly that superhuman, if you compare to the likes of the DGSD elites or the LOCH/ROCH greats. DFBB looks superhuman in XAJH, but probably not in DGSD or LOCH/ROCH if she's transported there.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChanceEncounter View Post
    Kinda like how the Ancient Tomb martial arts focused on lightness, the entire purpose of the KHBD is to overwhelm opponents with pure speed. YJJ has plenty of other benefits, but an equivalently trained KHBD practictioner would be faster than an equivalently trained YJJ practitioner.
    I don't think an equaivalently trained KHBD practitioner would be faster than an equivalently trained YJJ practioner. Maybe the KHBD practitioner would look fast when he fights, but I think the YJJ practitioner will still be able to see the KHBD practitioners's movements and stances very clearly.
    ..ext88

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    Senior Member jadebunny9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extremer88 View Post
    Not exactly that superhuman, if you compare to the likes of the DGSD elites or the LOCH/ROCH greats. DFBB looks superhuman in XAJH, but probably not in DGSD or LOCH/ROCH if she's transported there.
    That's the thing though. How exactly do you know that KHBD or BXJF can't compare to the likes of the DGSD elites or the L/R-OCH Greats?
    Last edited by jadebunny9; 09-06-08 at 02:20 AM.

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    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    but I think the YJJ practitioner will still be able to see the KHBD practitioners's movements and stances very clearly.
    What's so special about that? LHC could do that too (with his DG9J training) but he physically wasn't able to deal with it.

    YJJ allows for manipulation of one's internals as well as extremely profound internal energy but that's not the same as a powerful internal energy art that focuses all the internal energy into speed.

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    Senior Member ChanceEncounter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extremer88 View Post
    Not exactly that superhuman, if you compare to the likes of the DGSD elites or the LOCH/ROCH greats. DFBB looks superhuman in XAJH, but probably not in DGSD or LOCH/ROCH if she's transported there.
    Kinda begging the question, again, I suppose. How do we know that DFBB wouldn't look fast in comparison to the DGSD fighters? We're using an unproven premise (the guys in DGSD are just better) and applying it in a loop (begging the question).

    I think someone who can blind 15 guys in an instant and can execute 30 stabs in a blink of an eye who still can't keep up with DFBB should imply that DFBB is really f-cking fast.

    Quote Originally Posted by Extremer88 View Post
    I don't think an equaivalently trained KHBD practitioner would be faster than an equivalently trained YJJ practioner. Maybe the KHBD practitioner would look fast when he fights, but I think the YJJ practitioner will still be able to see the KHBD practitioners's movements and stances very clearly.
    So you don't think DFBB is faster than Fang Zheng?

    Where does YJJ specifically mention that it gives exceptional speed? It only does it indirectly by building up internal. This is different from KHBD/BXJF where it puts forth all of the energy into pure speed. The actual sword method of BXJF sucks.
    Last edited by ChanceEncounter; 09-06-08 at 02:12 PM.

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    Senior Member flamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extremer88 View Post
    Not exactly that superhuman, if you compare to the likes of the DGSD elites or the LOCH/ROCH greats. DFBB looks superhuman in XAJH, but probably not in DGSD or LOCH/ROCH if she's transported there.

    Lol. SHE? Maybe he/she.

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    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChanceEncounter View Post
    Kinda begging the question, again, I suppose. How do we know that DFBB wouldn't look fast in comparison to the DGSD fighters? We're using an unproven premise (the guys in DGSD are just better) and applying it in a loop (begging the question).

    I think someone who can blind 15 guys in an instant and can execute 30 stabs in a blink of an eye who still can't keep up with DFBB should imply that DFBB is really f-cking fast.

    I don't think there is much basis to state how fast DFBB is compared to the DGSD elites.

    In my interpretation, I would think DFBB would be slightly faster compared to the likes of XF and MRB.

    Part of it is because the name Dong Fang Bu Bai is so cool. It automatically gets extra credit in my books. If the bugger was called Da Niu or Ah Gou I would probably rate him slower than XF.

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    Senior Member Extremer88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChanceEncounter View Post
    Kinda begging the question, again, I suppose. How do we know that DFBB wouldn't look fast in comparison to the DGSD fighters? We're using an unproven premise (the guys in DGSD are just better) and applying it in a loop (begging the question).

    I think someone who can blind 15 guys in an instant and can execute 30 stabs in a blink of an eye who still can't keep up with DFBB should imply that DFBB is really f-cking fast..
    Dongfang would look fast, but it could be that his "speed" is common or above average in DGSD. (Which means not superhuman among DGSD Elites.)

    OK, it seems Linghu Chong can see the stances of DFBB, but do you think Linghu can see clearly the stances of the likes of Xiao Feng, Xuzhu or even Murong Bo? I can't guarantee 100%.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChanceEncounter View Post
    So you don't think DFBB is faster than Fang Zheng?.

    Where does YJJ specifically mention that it gives exceptional speed? It only does it indirectly by building up internal. This is different from KHBD/BXJF where it puts forth all of the energy into pure speed. The actual sword method of BXJF sucks.
    What is deemed as "fast"? If I remember correctly, Xiao Feng can keep up with Duan Yu's running pace pretty well. Faster in terms of "moving around during fights" or "executing stances or strokes"?

    If the latter, I think YJJ can equal KHBD.
    ..ext88

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    Senior Member ChanceEncounter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extremer88 View Post
    Dongfang would look fast, but it could be that his "speed" is common or above average in DGSD. (Which means not superhuman among DGSD Elites.)

    OK, it seems Linghu Chong can see the stances of DFBB, but do you think Linghu can see clearly the stances of the likes of Xiao Feng, Xuzhu or even Murong Bo? I can't guarantee 100%.
    And I can't guarantee Xiao Feng, Xuzhu, or Murong Bo would clearly see the strikes of DFBB.

    Again, I'm asking to PROVE that the DGSD fighters are faster than DFBB, not repeating the same ol' conjecture and fan theory that they are better overall fighters and thus faster. LHC didn't even dare to blink in his fight with DFBB, because he moved so damn fast.

    Even amongst elite fighters, I doubt that they keep their eyes open for the ENTIRE time of their fights that can last hours at a time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Extremer88 View Post
    What is deemed as "fast"? If I remember correctly, Xiao Feng can keep up with Duan Yu's running pace pretty well. Faster in terms of "moving around during fights" or "executing stances or strokes"?

    If the latter, I think YJJ can equal KHBD.
    Speed is a combination of both. DFBB proved that he move really fast, and attack really fast. YJJ has no feats of extreme speed that can stack up with DFBB's speed. We can't simply give the benefit of the doubt across several dubious transitive properties.

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    Senior Member kyss of the sword's Avatar
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    we know that the author has stated lightskill is dependent on inner power and LHC's lightskill improved by bounds after learning XXDF. YYJ is the top inner power skill and gives total control over the body, so it should bring great lightskill as well. KHBD is a combination of speed and vicious attacks that can be executed quickly. that was why it was so powerful. RWX and LHC had individual skills that could compete with KHBD in technqiues and had speed from XXDF but they were not able to combine both to the extent of KHBD effectiveness. take an example from DGSD, when WYZ and LQS practised their swordskills, their moves were so fast that the persons who saw their reflections couldn't see the moves clearly. that was because they had high inner power, LBWW speed and swordskills all from one school XYP which matached together well.
    THE KYSS OF THE SWORD IS DEADLY BUT EXQUSITE
    he's the strongest in history but he's the disciple.
    http://www.mangafox.com/manga/histor...ciple_kenichi/

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    Senior Member ChanceEncounter's Avatar
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    We know greater internal = greater speed. But that's a transverse property that applies to everybody. However, technique still has much to do with overall speed and lightness kungfu. The Ancient Tomb sect has top notch lightness kungfu; Wei Yixiao is faster than someone with his internal typicallys; LBWB is a technique to increase one's speed.

    WYZ and LQS are fast not only because they have high internal, but because they have a technique (LBWB) that helps them move quickly. Therein, it's better than just having high internal.

    Likewise, KHBD is a technique that cultivates internal energy and dumps it into pure speed. Therein, take two masters with equal depth of internal energy, and chances are, the KHBD practitioner will be faster than the YJJ practitioner because that's what his internal energy cultivation specializes in. Meanwhile, the YJJ user would likely be stronger, more resistant, etc.

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