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Thread: Ngor Mei Sect lineage

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default Ngor Mei Sect lineage

    The Ngor Mei Sect's lineage runs from Gwok Seung, who was the granddaughter of East Heretic Wong Yerk See, the daughter of North Hero Gwok Jing and Beggar's Union Chief Wong Yung, and "little sister" of West Passionate Yeung Gor. Gwok Seung's personality and martial arts bore some influence from each.

    So of the Ngor Mei Sect's mission and martial arts, what percentage reflects the influence Peach Blossom Island, the Gwok Family, and Yeung Gor? To which legacy could the Ngor Mei Sect be considered a true heir and successor?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    The Ngor Mei Sect's lineage runs from Gwok Seung, who was the granddaughter of East Heretic Wong Yerk See, the daughter of North Hero Gwok Jing and Beggar's Union Chief Wong Yung, and "little sister" of West Passionate Yeung Gor. Gwok Seung's personality and martial arts bore some influence from each.

    So of the Ngor Mei Sect's mission and martial arts, what percentage reflects the influence Peach Blossom Island, the Gwok Family, and Yeung Gor? To which legacy could the Ngor Mei Sect be considered a true heir and successor?
    I think according to the novel, Ngor Mei's martial arts was most based on GX's knowledge of 9Yang and had little do with Gwok Jing's martial arts. It's not clear what Ngor Mei Sect's legacy is, other than accepting male disciples with no self-esteem or bullying weaker people in Wulin.

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    Senior Member Ren Ying Ying's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wu Wudi
    I think according to the novel, Ngor Mei's martial arts was most based on GX's knowledge of 9Yang and had little do with Gwok Jing's martial arts. It's not clear what Ngor Mei Sect's legacy is, other than accepting male disciples with no self-esteem or bullying weaker people in Wulin.
    the school seemed to stress on sword art. which predecessor had the best sword skills? though actually, it seems GX has the tendancy to transfrom non-sword skills to sword skills anywayz.

    i do think most internal power was proabably based on the bits of 9 yang she picked up, perhaps mixed in with small amounts of QZ and 9yin? *shrug*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Ying Ying
    the school seemed to stress on sword art. which predecessor had the best sword skills? though actually, it seems GX has the tendancy to transfrom non-sword skills to sword skills anywayz.

    i do think most internal power was proabably based on the bits of 9 yang she picked up, perhaps mixed in with small amounts of QZ and 9yin? *shrug*
    Yeah, the school does seem to be stressed on sword art, perhaps because the heavenly sword was given to GX? The heavenly sword would have been a huge advantage in a fight and it's no wonder that GX would have focused on swordfighting. I only remember that the novel said that GX's martial arts was influenced by 9yang and don't recall any instances where it was said that her martial arts were influenced by her parents or grandparent. I don't count the begining since GX was just messing around with the monk and she clearly did not master the moves she was doing.

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    Default Talk like Guo Jing / Walk like Chaoying

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    The Ngor Mei Sect's lineage runs from Gwok Seung, who was the granddaughter of East Heretic Wong Yerk See, the daughter of North Hero Gwok Jing and Beggar's Union Chief Wong Yung, and "little sister" of West Passionate Yeung Gor. Gwok Seung's personality and martial arts bore some influence from each.

    So of the Ngor Mei Sect's mission and martial arts, what percentage reflects the influence Peach Blossom Island, the Gwok Family, and Yeung Gor? To which legacy could the Ngor Mei Sect be considered a true heir and successor?
    I agree with the other posters that E'Mei's 'martial DNA' - as shown in HSDS - was dominated by the 20-30% of 9 Yang Guo Xiang obtained from Jueyuan. There's a hint that E'Mei's 9 Yang Form was the elite knowledge imparted to top disciples, and it was also mentioned that the school's best palm technique ("Buddha's All-Illuminating Glory") was 9 Yang-derived. It's true that GX flaunted some Peachblossom Island skills in Chapter 1, but in the same scene she also happened to use 1-Yang Finger and even Iron Palm, so it's hard to identify another dominant strand besides 9 Yang. It does suggest GX was eclectic, though.

    Regarding E'Mei's "mission", the *official* lineage obviously ran from Guo Jing & Huang Rong, because arguably, the school's most important piece of know-how wasn't GX's martial arts but rather the secrets about the two weapons representing a 'time capsule' from the LOCH/ROCH era. It's sort of symbolised in the black iron leadership ring with the inscription from GJ & HR. But unfortunately, I think the character of E'Mei as an institution ended up reflecting the heartbreak which Yang Guo unwittingly caused to GX; in terms of ethos, this made E'Mei more like Ancient Tomb. The fact that GX created a sword technique to 'commemorate' her time with YG is rather a haunting echo of Lin Chaoying. And then there's this poignant little ritual, which again points to GX's disappointment:

    "Since the days of founding grandmaster Guo, all the most advanced martial arts have only been passed onto maidens who are as chaste as jade. At the time each female disciple acknowledged the master, master would always dot our arms with a chastity mark. Every year, upon founding master Guo's birthday, our late master would check up on everyone..." (Junior E'Meier Bei Jinyi in Chapter 40; my rough translation)

    I think it's sort of the hidden tragedy of HSDS that, within 3 generations, E'Mei ended up becoming pretty much the opposite of everything that used to make its founder admirable. It should've been the "true heir and successor" of GJ & HR, but ended up, for some reason, Ancient Tomb Part 2. But this time, instead of the dashing Condor Hero coming to heal the legacy of heartbreak, they only got the likes of peeping tom Song Qingshu.

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    Chastity mark, all women(sorta), heartbreak sword play...
    Burying his Dugu 9 Jian manual under an epitaph, Dugu Qiubai felt he has left his legacy for the next generation. He then moved to Shaolin to study Buddhism, sweep floors and tap elite fighters.

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    owbjhx, that was a very eloquent analysis of GX and her sect. I agree with many of the things that you made. Some people got very upset yesterday when I was saying similar things in another thread because GX is quite popular. You explained your points much nicer than I did though. I'm also one of the few that think of GX's obsessive love of YG as a major character flaw instead of a strength. I think that her parents should have slapped her silly for running around for years just for news of a married man that she has no future with. There had to be more important things to do than what GX was doing. It serves GX right that she never saw YG again. She can't expect YG to respect her when she had so little respect for herself. I think you're right that GX's heartbreak lead to the type of weirdo sect that we saw in HSDS where men are looked down upon and only virgin females can learn the best martial arts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wu Wudi
    I think that her parents should have slapped her silly for running around for years just for news of a married man that she has no future with.
    I think that her parents should receive massive beating for producing her 2 stupid siblings and equally stupid Wu brothers. Being around these kind of people is no place for talented Guo Xiang. Besides if she stayed around the family then she would have died with them and would not have learned 9 Yang and would not have founded the major sect in HSDS.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    I think that her parents should receive massive beating for producing her 2 stupid siblings and equally stupid Wu brothers. Being around these kind of people is no place for talented Guo Xiang. Besides if she stayed around the family then she would have died with them and would not have learned 9 Yang and would not have founded the major sect in HSDS.
    Guo FU was a terrible person but I think JY exagerrated her poor qualities to make her a foil for YG. I really can't imagaine HR and GJ raising such a terrible daughter. GF's lack of compassion is really unbelievable, considering how kind her parents were. I think you're being too harsh with the son. We don't know what he accomplished besides he supposedly died courageously by his parents' side. As patriotic heroes, GJ/HR can't help but be proud of the fact that their son displayed such courage. OTOH, I think they would definately be embarassed if they were asked what their duaghter has been doing for the last couple of years. I don't think that GX had to stay around her parents, but chasing for news of a guy for several years is just disgraceful. Also, even without the evil acts commited by Mie Jue and ZZR, I don't really consider creating Ngor Mei such a great accomplishment since it was still a 2nd tier sect like Kunlan.
    Last edited by Wu Wudi; 08-10-06 at 12:12 PM.

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    Now, after HSDS do we hear of this sect from other JY novels? Or is it safe to assume they disintegrated to ashes after ZZR? From other works, I have heard mentions of Emei but their power/ reputation is notion mentionable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkopinions
    Now, after HSDS do we hear of this sect from other JY novels? Or is it safe to assume they disintegrated to ashes after ZZR? From other works, I have heard mentions of Emei but their power/ reputation is notion mentionable.
    Ngor Mei Sect made an appearance in SOD, although it was not an important force in that story.

    Elsewhere in wuxia fiction, however, the Ngor Mei Sect is generally depicted as a top five sect of wulin...often top three.

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    Quote Originally Posted by owbjhx
    I agree with the other posters that E'Mei's 'martial DNA' - as shown in HSDS - was dominated by the 20-30% of 9 Yang Guo Xiang obtained from Jueyuan. There's a hint that E'Mei's 9 Yang Form was the elite knowledge imparted to top disciples, and it was also mentioned that the school's best palm technique ("Buddha's All-Illuminating Glory") was 9 Yang-derived. It's true that GX flaunted some Peachblossom Island skills in Chapter 1, but in the same scene she also happened to use 1-Yang Finger and even Iron Palm, so it's hard to identify another dominant strand besides 9 Yang. It does suggest GX was eclectic, though.

    Regarding E'Mei's "mission", the *official* lineage obviously ran from Guo Jing & Huang Rong, because arguably, the school's most important piece of know-how wasn't GX's martial arts but rather the secrets about the two weapons representing a 'time capsule' from the LOCH/ROCH era. It's sort of symbolised in the black iron leadership ring with the inscription from GJ & HR. But unfortunately, I think the character of E'Mei as an institution ended up reflecting the heartbreak which Yang Guo unwittingly caused to GX; in terms of ethos, this made E'Mei more like Ancient Tomb. The fact that GX created a sword technique to 'commemorate' her time with YG is rather a haunting echo of Lin Chaoying. And then there's this poignant little ritual, which again points to GX's disappointment:

    "Since the days of founding grandmaster Guo, all the most advanced martial arts have only been passed onto maidens who are as chaste as jade. At the time each female disciple acknowledged the master, master would always dot our arms with a chastity mark. Every year, upon founding master Guo's birthday, our late master would check up on everyone..." (Junior E'Meier Bei Jinyi in Chapter 40; my rough translation)

    I think it's sort of the hidden tragedy of HSDS that, within 3 generations, E'Mei ended up becoming pretty much the opposite of everything that used to make its founder admirable. It should've been the "true heir and successor" of GJ & HR, but ended up, for some reason, Ancient Tomb Part 2. But this time, instead of the dashing Condor Hero coming to heal the legacy of heartbreak, they only got the likes of peeping tom Song Qingshu.
    That was quite profound.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    I think that her parents should receive massive beating for producing her 2 stupid siblings and equally stupid Wu brothers. Being around these kind of people is no place for talented Guo Xiang. Besides if she stayed around the family then she would have died with them and would not have learned 9 Yang and would not have founded the major sect in HSDS.
    Yeah, becoming a stalker and obssessive was *way* better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by owbjhx
    But unfortunately, I think the character of E'Mei as an institution ended up reflecting the heartbreak which Yang Guo unwittingly caused to GX; in terms of ethos, this made E'Mei more like Ancient Tomb. The fact that GX created a sword technique to 'commemorate' her time with YG is rather a haunting echo of Lin Chaoying. And then there's this poignant little ritual, which again points to GX's disappointment:

    "Since the days of founding grandmaster Guo, all the most advanced martial arts have only been passed onto maidens who are as chaste as jade. At the time each female disciple acknowledged the master, master would always dot our arms with a chastity mark. Every year, upon founding master Guo's birthday, our late master would check up on everyone..." (Junior E'Meier Bei Jinyi in Chapter 40; my rough translation)
    Like what Lam Chiu Ying once demanded of Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung, what Gwok Seung desired was of dubious morality.

    And people say Gwok Fu is the twisted sister.

    Quote Originally Posted by owbjhx
    I think it's sort of the hidden tragedy of HSDS that, within 3 generations, E'Mei ended up becoming pretty much the opposite of everything that used to make its founder admirable. It should've been the "true heir and successor" of GJ & HR, but ended up, for some reason, Ancient Tomb Part 2.
    Would that make Mit Jeut See Tai or Chow Chi Yerk the new incarnation of Lee Mok Sau?

    Quote Originally Posted by owbjhx
    But this time, instead of the dashing Condor Hero coming to heal the legacy of heartbreak, they only got the likes of peeping tom Song Qingshu.
    It's ironic that Yeung Gor ended one cycle only to kick off another.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    It's ironic that Yeung Gor ended one cycle only to kick off another.
    It was bad karma for the Gwok family. Gwok Fu ruined YG and XLN's lives so YG ruins GX's life, even though it wasn't intentional on YG's part.
    Last edited by Wu Wudi; 08-10-06 at 03:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wu Wudi
    It was bad karma for the Gwok family. Gwok Fu ruined YG and XLN's lives so YG ruins GX's live, even though it wasn't intentional on YG's part.
    One might say the bad karma began with Yeung Hong, who tried on numerous occassions to kill Gwok Jing and ended up dying because of Wong Yung.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    Yeah, becoming a stalker and obssessive was *way* better.
    Maybe GX was a Xia groupie?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wu Wudi
    Maybe GX was a Xia groupie?
    I think she did have the "I Luv Yeung Gor!" t-shirt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    I think that her parents should receive massive beating for producing her 2 stupid siblings and equally stupid Wu brothers. Being around these kind of people is no place for talented Guo Xiang. Besides if she stayed around the family then she would have died with them and would not have learned 9 Yang and would not have founded the major sect in HSDS.
    That's still no excuse for running around wasting her life looking for a married man that she knew would never love her back. What more, she created a feminazi sect because of her heartbreak.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    Ngor Mei Sect made an appearance in SOD, although it was not an important force in that story.

    Elsewhere in wuxia fiction, however, the Ngor Mei Sect is generally depicted as a top five sect of wulin...often top three.
    But those Er-meis are different from Guo Xiang's Er-mei. In Gu Long's stories, male members are not inferior to female and male hold high position in the sect too. I also don't think Er-mei in Gu Long is a Buddhist sect.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

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