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Thread: Speaking in circles

  1. #1
    Senior Member Ardor's Avatar
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    Default Speaking in circles

    I realise that a lot of JY's characters speak in circles. Even guys who are supposed to be simple and straightforward (e.g. GJ (when talking about YK) and XF(When interrogating DCZ))
    Burying his Dugu 9 Jian manual under an epitaph, Dugu Qiubai felt he has left his legacy for the next generation. He then moved to Shaolin to study Buddhism, sweep floors and tap elite fighters.

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    Senior Member Guo Xiang's Avatar
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    Well, they have to be tactful in certain circumstances. Why would you want to hurt a kid by telling him straightout that not only was his dad not a hero, but he's a traitor and a devious backstabber?

    Sometimes it's a matter of tact and consideration.
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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guo Xiang
    Well, they have to be tactful in certain circumstances. Why would you want to hurt a kid by telling him straightout that not only was his dad not a hero, but he's a traitor and a devious backstabber?
    Keeping the truth from him arguably hurt him even more, and almost led to a disaster wherein Yeung Gor murdered Gwok Jing.

    Yeung Hong's crimes were a reality that Yeung Gor had to confront sooner or later. Finally finding out when he was in his 30s was a great relief to him...a burden he no longer had to carry. Imagine how much less he would have suffered in his youth had he known the truth from the beginning. It would not have been a pleasant reality for Yeung Gor to accept at any time during his life, but attempting to bury it caused even more problems for him.

    I've always felt that Yeung Gor's elders failed him here.

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    Senior Member MysteriouX's Avatar
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    Well this is only 1 example. Are there others?

    For this example, I think that HR and GJ was just trying to make sure that YG didn't follow the path of his father. And possibly GJ was trying to protect YG's view of his father. How would you possibly feel if you grew up believing your father was a good guy and then suddenly you learn the truth which is the exact opposite. As a young kid YG would probably not be able to handle it but however when he was older I think GJ and HR should have openly explained.

    I think YG was around 18-20 years of age during the first heroes meet where he fought HD, DEB and GWM.

    Its like in the real world, most parents who adopted a child would not probably tell their child that he or she is adopted while they are very young. Perhaps when they are older and can understand they will tell.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MysteriouX
    For this example, I think that HR and GJ was just trying to make sure that YG didn't follow the path of his father.
    Right, and I think the better way to accomplish this would be to tell Yeung Gor, "Gor-yee, your father made some terrible mistakes during his life and hurt many people. He paid with his life for the wrongs he committed. You must grow up to be a good man and not repeat his mistakes." Yeung Gor wasn't stupid and ultimately, although I criticize him often for being so, not unreasonable (not after he's had time to get control of his emotions and reason things out). I really think he would have understood and accepted the truth even at an early age if only he had been told. Gwok Jing, Wong Yung, Yau Chui Gei, etc., were being uncharacteristically diffident here for not telling him. They probably sincerely believed that it was for the boy's own good, but they misjudged in this case. Keeping the truth from him did hurt him, because it forced him to draw his own conclusions (which turned out to be wrong and nearly disastrous).

    Quote Originally Posted by MysteriouX
    And possibly GJ was trying to protect YG's view of his father.
    I don't see the benefit of protecting a lie. Yeung Gor had a false image of the man his father was. I think his elders would have done him better by disabusing him of this false image early on.

    Quote Originally Posted by MysteriouX
    How would you possibly feel if you grew up believing your father was a good guy and then suddenly you learn the truth which is the exact opposite.
    It would be terrible, but I would still want to know the truth. If I were in Yeung Gor's position, I think I'd be more upset that my elders withheld important information from me, even if they believed they had my best interests at heart.

    Quote Originally Posted by MysteriouX
    As a young kid YG would probably not be able to handle it but however when he was older I think GJ and HR should have openly explained.
    The problem is they never got around to it, even when Yeung Gor was a young adult. Gwok Jing and Wong Yung kept procrastinating on this. At the very least, they should have told him at the Heroes Conference or, failing that, at Seung Yeung.

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    Senior Member MysteriouX's Avatar
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    Yeah but however I still feel that as a kid (under 15 years of age) YG should not be told the truth yet, because how a person grows up depends on the influences he or she has as a child. I really don't think YG would've completely understood as a kid, he would probably think GJ and HR was trying to defame his father and lets not forget that YG grew up facing many troubles with his mother and witnessing her terrible death (she was probably the only person he loved more or equal to XLN). I seem to recall a part where YG thought GJ and HR were lying when he heard some facts about his father from someone (around the chapters near the first heroes meet).

    I think the one thing that kept him going as he grew up was the HOPE of his father. However as someone older he would've probably understood better.

    Compare it to why Obi-Wan Kenobi kept the secret that Darth Vader was actually Anakin Skywalker from Luke.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MysteriouX
    Compare it to why Obi-Wan Kenobi kept the secret that Darth Vader was actually Anakin Skywalker from Luke.
    Yeah, and not just a few STAR WARS fans have called Obi-Wan a dirty liar for that.

    Luke ultimately understood Obi-Wan's reasons for not being honest with him, and forgave him, but he was upset with Obi-Wan (and understandbly so): "Ben, why didn't you tell me?" Similarly, I imagine Yeung Gor would have been somewhat upset at Gwok Jing, Wong Yung, and Yau Chui Gei for similar reasons...also understandably.

  8. #8
    TommyH
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    Yeah characters always seem to speak in circles. Like when XF was talking to DZC...but the story would be completely different if they didn't speak in circles...right?

  9. #9
    Senior Member MysteriouX's Avatar
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    Hey they could be speaking using diplomatic talk. What words come out of their mouths could actually have different meanings. If you ever listen to a diplomat or a politician speak with another diplomatic or politician, never take what comes out of their mouths litterally.

    If a diplomat says yes he means maybe, if he says maybe it means no, but if a diplomat says No, then he's no diplomat.

    If a lady says no she means maybe, if she says maybe she means yes, but if a lady says Yes, then she's no lady.

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    Everyone in Jy's world is pretty straightforward compared to people in Gu Long:

    This is a typical GL conversation:

    "If you wanted to leave, then you shouldn't have come in the first place. Since you have come, then why would you leave?" ShangGuan JinHong asked.

    Li XunHuan stood silent for a while, before saying, "You're right. Since I am already here, why should I leave?"

  11. #11
    Senior Member Ardor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wu Wudi
    Everyone in Jy's world is pretty straightforward compared to people in Gu Long:

    This is a typical GL conversation:

    "If you wanted to leave, then you shouldn't have come in the first place. Since you have come, then why would you leave?" ShangGuan JinHong asked.

    Li XunHuan stood silent for a while, before saying, "You're right. Since I am already here, why should I leave?"
    Beacuse it was characteristic of them. JY's circling functions like a sweeper monk. Nothing but a plot device.
    Burying his Dugu 9 Jian manual under an epitaph, Dugu Qiubai felt he has left his legacy for the next generation. He then moved to Shaolin to study Buddhism, sweep floors and tap elite fighters.

  12. #12
    Member wuxia's Avatar
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    but then if they didn't sometimes the story wouldn't be as interesting

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