View Poll Results: Omnipotent characters...

Voters
19. You may not vote on this poll
  • ...make wuxia stories more interesting.

    8 42.11%
  • ...ruin wuxia stories.

    11 57.89%
Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: "Omnipotent" characters - are they good or bad for wuxia fiction?

  1. #1
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    22,616

    Default "Omnipotent" characters - are they good or bad for wuxia fiction?

    The Janitor Monk. Dook Goo Kau Bai. Shen Long. Siu Yiu Hao. These are names in wuxia fiction that evoke the idea of invincibility. So powerful are these characters, supposedly, that the all-time Elites, Greats, and Heroes of wuxia fiction are insignificant compared to them.

    Do such characters, however, help or hurt wuxia fiction? Are these interesting characters or quasi-characters (deus ex machina or other plot devices) that add to the intrigue of wuxia, or do they just cheapen the accomplishments of the Elites, Greats, and Heroes and turn wuxia into a joke?

  2. #2
    Senior Member CC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    5,034

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    The Janitor Monk. Dook Goo Kau Bai. Shen Long. Siu Yiu Hao. These are names in wuxia fiction that evoke the idea of invincibility. So powerful are these characters, supposedly, that the all-time Elites, Greats, and Heroes of wuxia fiction are insignificant compared to them.

    Do such characters, however, help or hurt wuxia fiction? Are these interesting characters or quasi-characters (deus ex machina or other plot devices) that add to the intrigue of wuxia, or do they just cheapen the accomplishments of the Elites, Greats, and Heroes and turn wuxia into a joke?
    Its not so bad. DGKB was relegated to a legend, so like all legends, it can be reasonable that the story was garnished.

    For Sweeper, I think JY tried to imply that he was still human by letting him drop his shield and get injured when he had to attack XYS while fending off XF.

    Haven't read enough GL to judge.

    At least in the wuxia world (of JY at least) there are only 1 or 2 really powerful beings. The comics universe is getting more and more insane with near omnipotent beings multiplying in every story arc.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1,451

    Default

    Well, remember it's impossible for two people to be omnipotent simultaneously.

  4. #4
    Senior Member yittz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    3,943

    Default

    I like it more when Wuxia character are more realistic personality wise and martial arts wise. As in there's logic to it as oppose to whether it's possible or not.
    Member of HYS fanclub -> click here to join group.

    Member of TC fanclub.

  5. #5
    Senior Member MysteriouX's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Empyrean Realm
    Posts
    1,247

    Default

    To be honest here, as a young kid growing up, I prefered more of the JY superpowered hero type, but when I became older, I started to prefer GL style characters where people are not superpowered, instead they are more experienced and cautious and understand what life and death is and understand that to kill someone, the burdens that come along with it are heavy.

  6. #6
    Senior Member CC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    5,034

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MysteriouX
    I started to prefer GL style characters where people are not superpowered,
    I love the way that GL makes his characters heavy on the philosophy of life and everything in between etc etc. His psychoanalysis of the human mind makes for great wuxia reading.

    But GL characters _not_ superpowered? After reading the fight between Yan ShiSan and Xie, if they were not overpowered, then all three of them must be on LSD during the fight!

  7. #7
    Senior Member Bangs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Home sweet home
    Posts
    1,628

    Default

    I personally think one or two overpowered characters are welcome once in a while. I just hope that not every story told contains one. Also why is it that the overpowered characters always has to be some minor character who just appeared once or twice and didn't really do anything except show off a move or two? Why can't the final enemy be the overpowered one and the heroes unite to beat him? Or the hero is the overpowered one and is struggling to defeat countless enemies at a time? Just my thoughts.......

  8. #8
    Senior Member CC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    5,034

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bangs
    Why can't the final enemy be the overpowered one and the heroes unite to beat him?
    First thing that comes to mind when I read that is MRB from the 82 DGSD.

    I think most of the earlier wuxia series always had 1 overpowered villian for the final exploding rock with purple smoke fight.

  9. #9
    Senior Member MysteriouX's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Empyrean Realm
    Posts
    1,247

    Default

    Another thing is, why can't a villian be both superpowered and very intelligent at the same time? (Combine the physical attributes of Superman with the mental attributes of Batman, and make the person evil, now we have an extremely dangerous villian.)

    Sure we have seen some of that kind in GL, but are there any in JY?

  10. #10
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    18,371

    Default

    At least in the wuxia world (of JY at least) there are only 1 or 2 really powerful beings.
    Agree. I think these superpower characters are ok as long as their productions are limited. Having less than 4 per 14 novels is ok by me.

    After reading the fight between Yan ShiSan and Xie
    Say no more. That fight is the sh*t. I still haven't gotten over its awesomeness.

    First thing that comes to mind when I read that is MRB from the 82 DGSD.
    Which turned out to be quite a lame ending, and which is why I steer my habits to things of greater merit (i.e. the novels) than TV adaptions.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    624

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    Which turned out to be quite a lame ending, and which is why I steer my habits to things of greater merit (i.e. the novels) than TV adaptions.
    Can someone do me the favour of elaborating what happened in that adaptation? This seems interesting.. And since when did MRB became the ultra-powerful villain??

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    624

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MysteriouX
    Another thing is, why can't a villian be both superpowered and very intelligent at the same time? (Combine the physical attributes of Superman with the mental attributes of Batman, and make the person evil, now we have an extremely dangerous villian.)

    Sure we have seen some of that kind in GL, but are there any in JY?
    There are millions of such villains, till the point that it is no longer interesting nor original. I, personally wants to see some flaws in the villains too, however, not to the extent where they get their butts kicked a little too often.

  13. #13
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    18,371

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacifian
    Can someone do me the favour of elaborating what happened in that adaptation? This seems interesting.. And since when did MRB became the ultra-powerful villain??
    My pleasure.

    *SPOILERS for DGSD 1982*

    Basically, after Murong Bo and Xiao Yuanshan were taking in by the Sweeper Monk.... Murong Bo learned some fancy Shaolin kung fu and teamed up with Jiumozhi to KILL the Sweeper Monk. And they succeeded, Sweeper Monk got killed by those 2 guys.



    Still with me? OK. Murong Bo then kicked the asses of the Beggar's Sect, killed Duan Yanqing. At one point, Murong Bo defeated the combined forces of: Xuzhu (at his absolute peak), Duan Yu, Xiao Feng, Zhong Ling, and Ah Zi. GREAT stuff! After Xiao Feng's death, Murong Bo then proceeded to take on the combined forces of the remaining heroes: Xuzhu, Duan Yu, and Xiao Yuanshan. The 3 of them normally couldn't defeat Murong Bo, but Xiao Yuanshan sacrificed his life in the only possible effort to overcome the MIGHTY Murong Bo.

    GO MURONG BO!!!!!!
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    624

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    My pleasure.

    *SPOILERS for DGSD 1982*

    Basically, after Murong Bo and Xiao Yuanshan were taking in by the Sweeper Monk.... Murong Bo learned some fancy Shaolin kung fu and teamed up with Jiumozhi to KILL the Sweeper Monk. And they succeeded, Sweeper Monk got killed by those 2 guys.



    Still with me? OK. Murong Bo then kicked the asses of the Beggar's Sect, killed Duan Yanqing. At one point, Murong Bo defeated the combined forces of: Xuzhu (at his absolute peak), Duan Yu, Xiao Feng, Zhong Ling, and Ah Zi. GREAT stuff! After Xiao Feng's death, Murong Bo then proceeded to take on the combined forces of the remaining heroes: Xuzhu, Duan Yu, and Xiao Yuanshan. The 3 of them normally couldn't defeat Murong Bo, but Xiao Yuanshan sacrificed his life in the only possible effort to overcome the MIGHTY Murong Bo.

    GO MURONG BO!!!!!!
    I want to see JY's reaction to this... A Kodak moment!!

  15. #15
    Senior Member CC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    5,034

    Default

    IIRC, in the last scene, MRB _EXPLODED_?

  16. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    My pleasure.

    *SPOILERS for DGSD 1982*

    Basically, after Murong Bo and Xiao Yuanshan were taking in by the Sweeper Monk.... Murong Bo learned some fancy Shaolin kung fu and teamed up with Jiumozhi to KILL the Sweeper Monk. And they succeeded, Sweeper Monk got killed by those 2 guys.



    Still with me? OK. Murong Bo then kicked the asses of the Beggar's Sect, killed Duan Yanqing. At one point, Murong Bo defeated the combined forces of: Xuzhu (at his absolute peak), Duan Yu, Xiao Feng, Zhong Ling, and Ah Zi. GREAT stuff! After Xiao Feng's death, Murong Bo then proceeded to take on the combined forces of the remaining heroes: Xuzhu, Duan Yu, and Xiao Yuanshan. The 3 of them normally couldn't defeat Murong Bo, but Xiao Yuanshan sacrificed his life in the only possible effort to overcome the MIGHTY Murong Bo.

    GO MURONG BO!!!!!!
    LOL Murong Bo really is powerful. Does that also happen in the novel also? If not, what happen to Murong Bo in the novel?

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    583

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    My pleasure.

    *SPOILERS for DGSD 1982*

    Basically, after Murong Bo and Xiao Yuanshan were taking in by the Sweeper Monk.... Murong Bo learned some fancy Shaolin kung fu and teamed up with Jiumozhi to KILL the Sweeper Monk. And they succeeded, Sweeper Monk got killed by those 2 guys.



    Still with me? OK. Murong Bo then kicked the asses of the Beggar's Sect, killed Duan Yanqing. At one point, Murong Bo defeated the combined forces of: Xuzhu (at his absolute peak), Duan Yu, Xiao Feng, Zhong Ling, and Ah Zi. GREAT stuff! After Xiao Feng's death, Murong Bo then proceeded to take on the combined forces of the remaining heroes: Xuzhu, Duan Yu, and Xiao Yuanshan. The 3 of them normally couldn't defeat Murong Bo, but Xiao Yuanshan sacrificed his life in the only possible effort to overcome the MIGHTY Murong Bo.

    GO MURONG BO!!!!!!
    I watched the subtitled version and its funny because they translated the names into western names. Xiao Feng was Kelvin, Duan Yu was Dwynn Dawn (?) etc, etc.

  18. #18
    TommyH
    Unregistered

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lonelyassassin
    LOL Murong Bo really is powerful. Does that also happen in the novel also? If not, what happen to Murong Bo in the novel?
    MRB and XYS both became monks at Shaolin.

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    2,343

    Default

    In JY's novels, I think it's ok.

    In GL's novel, I think it's kind of bad if it's exxagerated. Like the Liu Siu Feng's 6th novel where LSF goes to this island. All the fighters there could easily kill LSF like in one stance. In that case, it harms wuxia.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出一阳指功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的一阳指功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

  20. #20
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    22,616

    Default

    I kind of liked the ending of DGSD '81 myself, although it didn't follow the novel. To have seen Kiu Fung, Deun Yu, and Hui Juk and their incredible power barely able to hold their own against a mighty villain was fun to watch.

    And since both the Janitor Monk and Mo Yung Bok were ultimately killed, *nobody* was truly invincible in this adaptation.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 31
    Last Post: 11-30-18, 11:16 PM
  2. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 08-12-18, 09:21 PM
  3. Who is the "Prince of Thieves" among wuxia characters?
    By Ken Cheng in forum Wuxia Fiction
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 07-22-08, 12:08 AM
  4. Chow Chi Yerk and other "stupid" wuxia characters
    By wkeej in forum Wuxia Fiction
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 07-04-07, 08:39 PM
  5. What is "required reading" in wuxia fiction?
    By Ken Cheng in forum Wuxia Fiction
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 07-18-06, 02:30 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •