Who was THE more pathetic villain?

[PJ]

Although there were many villains/antagonists in DGSD, probably Murong Fu was the most central one. In ROCH the primary villainous role was that of Jinlun Guoshi/Golden Wheel Monk. One trait that both men have in common is that they kind of ... suck, as far as their combat records go. Murong Fu was repeatedly defeated by people far below his equal-in-reputation Xiao Feng, and he was further embarrassed by Duan Yu several times. Golden Wheel Monk was overcome by Dragon Girl and Yang Guo, and before the 16 years he usually had trouble unleashing his full potential in combat.

So, I ask ye, who is the more pathetic villain in your opinion? One thing we should consider is that Murong Fu actually uses his true ability quite well; it's just that his martial arts aren't very good. While, Golden Wheel Monk's martial arts are very good; it's just that he has trouble unleashing them.

[TommyH]

MRF...he was PATHETIC!!! And to think he was named as Xiao Feng's equal...

[CC]

I find MRF pathetic not because of his martial arts. Its his flavour of the chapter strategy!

Villians in other books make strategic plans which span the whole book. Compare Yue Buqun, Zuo LengChan, Cheng Kun etc etc.

This guy has no clue! From one chapter to another, its a case of 'Oh I'll make friends with this bunch, no wait, lets make friends with this bunch to get their support, hmmm how about this chess game? oh, lets marry the princess of xixia then, no wait, lets become adopted by the Duans'. Notice that non of MRF's plots spand more then 1 chapters worth? He doesn't come up with an in depth plan, he just latches on to every opportunity and half baked chance by wandering all over the Central Plains! Brilliant!

He is however, the most pathetic when he killed his own followers.

[Candide]

MRF the emperor-wannabe. Both of them were arrogant and overestimated their own abilities but MRF did that mostly as if he were already emperor of all lands under heaven, whereas GWM only thought of himself as a Great senior martial artist.

Nice signature, PJ.

[Zhuge Liang]

Well GWM often tried the moral high ground about how the central plains fighters ganged up on him and yet he turns around and bullies girls and pregnant ladies. That is utter pathetic in my mind.

In defence of Murong Fu, it was others that placed him on par with Xiao Feng though he himself thought he was his equal. However, not being the equal of XF is no shame imho. His plans were pretty crappy compared to his father. Some of them were pretty good, it's just the plot necessitated their failure - while others like Duan Yu & XZ got so much without any scheming.

GWM did have some redeemable features at the end whilst MRF really had none.

[Wu Wudi]

Does anyone think that MRF lost much of his ability after his loss to Duan Yu? After his fight to DY, MRF just seemed to be dominated by every foe he met. At the beginning of the story, MRF was around 30 and was well known as the equal of Xiao Feng which means that MRF must have been in Wulin for a couple of years already. If MRF were really as weak as he showed at the end of the novel, wouldn't he have been exposed a long time ago? I'm sure that many people would have been eager to defeat MRF, especially since his much more dangerous father was presumed to be dead. My theory is that MRF is one of those people that can't get back up after falling down, unlike someone like XF.

[dius corvus]

Murong Fu is far more pathetic by the sound of it. He went from everything to zero, he makes really stupid plans, and -- most damning -- he got beaten by Duan Yu. JLFW was never beaten by someone like that. YG and XLN managed to defeat only using the Jade Maiden Swordplay, which was exquisite in its own right. Later on, basically everyone he fought against and lost to was a powerful martial artist. Plus, the revised ending puts JLFW in a much more positive light. Dying before an army in a blaze >> going mad and giving treats to little kids to act as obsequious subjects.

[Wu Wudi]

Murong Fu is far more pathetic by the sound of it. He went from everything to zero, he makes really stupid plans, and -- most damning -- he got beaten by Duan Yu. JLFW was never beaten by someone like that. YG and XLN managed to defeat only using the Jade Maiden Swordplay, which was exquisite in its own right. Later on, basically everyone he fought against and lost to was a powerful martial artist. Plus, the revised ending puts JLFW in a much more positive light. Dying before an army in a blaze >> going mad and giving treats to little kids to act as obsequious subjects.

At the very moment that Duan Yu beat MRF, he was much more powerful than YG/XLN using Jade Maiden Swordplay. Even XF was doubtful that he could beat DY at that time. It's possible that DY at that time was more powerful than anyone that JLFW has ever seen in his life.

[Ken Cheng]

At the very moment that Duan Yu beat MRF, he was much more powerful than YG/XLN using Jade Maiden Swordplay. Even XF was doubtful that he could beat DY at that time. It's possible that DY at that time was more powerful than anyone that JLFW has ever seen in his life.

This is probably all true, but the perception that people had of Deun Yu at the time was that he was a bookish, wimpy teenager who knew no martial arts at all. Sometimes, perception trumps reality, and in this case, it trumped Mo Yung F'uk's reputation as well.

[Wu Wudi]

This is probably all true, but the perception that people had of Deun Yu at the time was that he was a bookish, wimpy teenager who knew no martial arts at all. Sometimes, perception trumps reality, and in this case, it trumped Mo Yung F'uk's reputation as well.

I thought people's perception of DY were greatly changed after seeing how dominant his 6MSJ were. Hardly anyone at that fight had ever seen a laser-like chi sword.

[Ken Cheng]

I thought people's perception of DY were greatly changed after seeing how dominant his 6MSJ were. Hardly anyone at that fight had ever seen a laser-like chi sword.

Perhaps, but since Deun Yu was an unknown entity in wulin, I think that psychologically, most of the observers reacted with "Gee, look at how badly Mo Yung F'uk actually sucks" rather than, "Wow. Look how awesome that Deun Yu kid really is." There was likely a bit of both, but I think Mo Yung F'uk being shown up had a stronger impression on the observers than Deun Yu looking so unexpectedly powerful.

[JigSta]

My vote's for MF. He became more and more desperate as time went on. Ganging up on XF. Sacrificing the people who cared for him

[Candide]

I thought people's perception of DY were greatly changed after seeing how dominant his 6MSJ were. Hardly anyone at that fight had ever seen a laser-like chi sword.

I think your perception of 6MSJ is too heavily influenced by TVB's crappy SE. The qi swords are invisible. Normal people could only see Duan Yu point fingers randomly and MRF dodging and spinning around. Top martial artists understood that it was invisible qi swords but didn't know what DY was actually doing. Only elites like Xiao Feng could "see" them and understand enough to make certain evaluations (like the tips on how to wield the swords more efficiently that XF told DY).

Because most people didn't understand what was going on and Duan Yu's moves didn't appear to be all that great to them (it didn't help that Duan Yu didn't know martial arts and had zeo training except for BMSG and 6MSJ), MRF's reputation was pretty much reduced to zero in their eyes.

[K2Grey]

Until Xiao Feng actually told Duan Yu that his 6MSJ was faulty onlookers unfamiliar with Dali Duan arts probably thought DY was using a half-baked version of Yiyang Zhi, especially since aside from his usage of a half-baked 6MSJ and his OMGWTFBBQ inner power (which for some reason did not protect him from attack), DY sorta sucked.

No one knew that Duan Yu was a very unbalanced character who was _really_ good in some skills and _really_ bad in others. And the skills that he was good in, he didn't really show. I think he used LBWB once for the space of about 2 seconds in which he charged at MRF while holding his hands out in a totally choreographed manner and got hit. Not very impressive. BMSG did auto-activate once but no one but MRF noticed it. And no one can see 6MSJ anyway. On the other hand his bad points were emphasized. For example, his usage of LBWB looked retarded. MRF thought DY stunk and threw a sucker kick which he still didn't expect would connect and it totally got DY anyway leading more people to believe DY stunk. Then in order to avoid the sword shards that MRF flung at him DY employed his secret technique of falling to the ground while yelling "Aaaah!" in a non-glorious manner. At the end when MRF did his suicide charge on DY our lovable Dali prince totally had no idea what to do and did not do anything meaningful to save himself or stop MRF and again looked retarded.

But all the while this guy was beating MRF. Thus instead of MRF being huge and DY being huger instead they both look like drunks at the local liquor store fighting.

[Pacifian]

MRF...he was PATHETIC!!! And to think he was named as Xiao Feng's equal...

he is not equal with Xiao Feng, but his martial arts is very close to Xiao Feng. Moreover, he is around ten years younger than XF, considering all these, he is a powerful fighter.

[yittz]

MRF - what CC said.

More so than his overrated martial arts/fame. But how shockingly bad how 'strategies' are. Put him in a GL novel, he will get pawned left, right and centre.

[Candide]

Put him in a GL novel, he will get pawned left, right and centre.

GL characters are hardly good at plotting. They are often too occupied by artsy fartsy philosophical bullshit.

[endo]

Until Xiao Feng actually told Duan Yu that his 6MSJ was faulty onlookers unfamiliar with Dali Duan arts probably thought DY was using a half-baked version of Yiyang Zhi, especially since aside from his usage of a half-baked 6MSJ and his OMGWTFBBQ inner power (which for some reason did not protect him from attack), DY sorta sucked.

No one knew that Duan Yu was a very unbalanced character who was _really_ good in some skills and _really_ bad in others. And the skills that he was good in, he didn't really show. I think he used LBWB once for the space of about 2 seconds in which he charged at MRF while holding his hands out in a totally choreographed manner and got hit. Not very impressive. BMSG did auto-activate once but no one but MRF noticed it. And no one can see 6MSJ anyway. On the other hand his bad points were emphasized. For example, his usage of LBWB looked retarded. MRF thought DY stunk and threw a sucker kick which he still didn't expect would connect and it totally got DY anyway leading more people to believe DY stunk. Then in order to avoid the sword shards that MRF flung at him DY employed his secret technique of falling to the ground while yelling "Aaaah!" in a non-glorious manner. At the end when MRF did his suicide charge on DY our lovable Dali prince totally had no idea what to do and did not do anything meaningful to save himself or stop MRF and again looked retarded.

But all the while this guy was beating MRF. Thus instead of MRF being huge and DY being huger instead they both look like drunks at the local liquor store fighting.

couldn't agree more...especially the OMGWTFBBQ inner power!

[Sparky]

Totally Murong Fu...

[CC]

he is not equal with Xiao Feng, but his martial arts is very close to Xiao Feng. Moreover, he is around ten years younger than XF, considering all these, he is a powerful fighter.

MRF is actually older then XF.