Team Condor v Team Smiling Wanderers

[Extremer88]

Team Condor consists of Guo Jing, Yang Guo and Zhang Wuji.

Team Smiling Wanderers consists of Abbot Fangzheng, Priest Chongxu, Ren Woxing, Feng Qingyang, Dongfang Bubai and Linghu Chong.

Should be a close fight, but who wins?

[Ren Ying Ying]

team together or one on one?

[The Khan]

DFBB, RWX and LHC should more or less be equal to GJ, YG and ZWJ. to add the other fighters would tilt it too much to team SPW.

[Extremer88]

DFBB, RWX and LHC should more or less be equal to GJ, YG and ZWJ. to add the other fighters would tilt it too much to team SPW.

It might be a close fight. GJ knew Big Dipper Formation which might be useful against more opponents. While ZWJ's Taiji Fist might probably be better than Chongxu's, although Chongxu's Taiji Fist might have refined over centuries.

[ChronoReverse]

I dunno. While DFBB might (MIGHT) edge out a GJ calibre Great, LHC and RWX sure don't (LHC doesn't come close to ROCH level Great while RWX at the absolute most generous would match one). I'd say LHC might be at an LOCH Great level while RWX would be a pre-skip ROCH Great level.

Furthermore, two of the Condor Team are extremely proficient at fighting with a numerical disadvantage as well as extended fights. Much of the Smiling Team are old and have correspondingly lower stamina.


Assuming DFBB doesn't use poison, Team Condor has a better chance of winning. With three of that much martial arts calibre, plus the fact that all three can unleash a devastating blow if required, even if RWX was lucky enough to grab one of them, the other two would definitely be able to save him. RWX might not even risk using XXDF directly since the being immobilized even momentarily may be enough for a crippling strike on him.

[Ren Ying Ying]

DFBB, RWX and LHC should more or less be equal to GJ, YG and ZWJ. to add the other fighters would tilt it too much to team SPW.

LHC? i dunno. but RWX & Abbot FangZhang & Feng QingYang should already give Guo Jing/Yang Guo/Zhang Wuji a hard time. And since one DFBB can take on RWX, LHC, The Right Hand Guy, and some other elder of Moon Sun, adding him in the equation should already pretty much lean the battle in Team Smiling WAnderer's favor.
Then you add on priest chongxu & LHC as a bonus
i would say team smiling wanderer wins.

it's not a fair battle...3 against 6??? you should at least add on some other greats such as HYS, Yi Deng, etc to help out team condor

[Whsie]

DFBB is the only one that matches one of the 3. The others should be considerably weaker since DFBB could easily handle 3 of those 2nd tier.
Condor wins.

To get more of my point across. Chongxu, Fangzhang, RWX, FQY are relatively equal because the novel stated 3 of those 4 equal and we know FQY is probably around RWX. And the LHC that we saw last at DFBB case, was a bit weaker than RWX tier because he didn't master the Chi and palm break stance.
DFBB was easily handling RWX, XWT (stated by RWX to be a half level lower than him), and LHC (probably around RWX) without too much trouble. Since DFBB was even trully trying since he wasn't breaking a sweat, I have a feeling that even if Chongxu, Fangzhang, RWX trio were to 3 on 1 with DFBB, DFBB may still win if he tries. And since DFBB is ~ Great......, that would mean 3 Greats>9 2nd tier XAJH fighters (DFBB is the only 1st tier in XAJH).....

Trilogy Great Elites win.

[Whsie]

LHC? i dunno. but RWX & Abbot FangZhang & Feng QingYang should already give Guo Jing/Yang Guo/Zhang Wuji a hard time. And since one DFBB can take on RWX, LHC, The Right Hand Guy, and some other elder of Moon Sun, adding him in the equation should already pretty much lean the battle in Team Smiling WAnderer's favor.
Then you add on priest chongxu & LHC as a bonus
i would say team smiling wanderer wins.

it's not a fair battle...3 against 6??? you should at least add on some other greats such as HYS, Yi Deng, etc to help out team condor

RWX, Fangzhang, or FQY any of them can last a certain amount of time against ZWJ, YG, or GJ, but certainly not a hard time.
To show my point: YG at 20 (and we're using a 36 years old YG right now) mastered Heavy Iron stage which is a level that FQY's DG9J can't win. Heck, all YG has to do is swing his sword 3 times and FQY is probably defeated by the powerful sword winds. I don't think the 36 years old YG would have any hard time.....

[Whsie]

It might be a close fight. GJ knew Big Dipper Formation which might be useful against more opponents. While ZWJ's Taiji Fist might probably be better than Chongxu's, although Chongxu's Taiji Fist might have refined over centuries.

Dubious. I think the only person that could be a serious threat is DFBB.

It's also dubious that Chongxu's Taij Fist is better because..... (did you forget)? Just in case you forgot, I'm reminding you that the Taji fist jin was stolen by the Sun/Moon Cult years ago......, so first that is doubtful(remember? RYY returned Jin Gang Jin and Z3F's sword, Taji fist jin back at the end of XAJH). And unlike GJ, Chongxu doesn't have a special manual or some sort that has better philosophy which can be incorporated into the stances. So being more refined is doubtful though it's possible that Chongxu may have the talent, but he doesn't have the material .

[Whsie]

DFBB, RWX and LHC should more or less be equal to GJ, YG and ZWJ. to add the other fighters would tilt it too much to team SPW.

I know what you are thinking, how can XAJH fighters trully be that much weaker than the Trilogy? Unfortuenetly, that's the flat down truth (with DFBB being the exception).

LHC.... with YJJ, I don't know. But based on DFBB's combat, I doubt he could have handled YG at 20 years old for reasons I have already explained.

[Ren Ying Ying]

RWX, Fangzhang, or FQY any of them can last a certain amount of time against ZWJ, YG, or GJ, but certainly not a hard time.
To show my point: YG at 20 (and we're using a 36 years old YG right now) mastered Heavy Iron stage which is a level that FQY's DG9J can't win. Heck, all YG has to do is swing his sword 3 times and FQY is probably defeated by the powerful sword winds. I don't think the 36 years old YG would have any hard time.....

according to that logic, 20 year old YG should be able to smack down 30 year old Dugu Qiu Bai in like three strokes? he could, but i still highly doubt it.

I know what you are thinking, how can XAJH fighters trully be that much weaker than the Trilogy? Unfortuenetly, that's the flat down truth (with DFBB being the exception).

really? how so is that the flat down truth?

[Whsie]

according to that logic, 20 year old YG should be able to smack down 30 year old Dugu Qiu Bai in like three strokes? he could, but i still highly doubt it.


really? how so is that the flat down truth?

Yes He could. The DGQB that we use to compare better than the Greats or whatever, is the 40 years old+ DGQB. Remember, YG is a extreme talent being able to reach the cultivation of the likes of ZBT, Yideng, HYS at a decent age of 36.

I've said it. And the novel also stated directly (JY stated it from the narrator's view) that RWX, FZ, CX are around the same level.
And DFBB cleary was overwhelming RWX, XWT, LHC without trying. And later LHC even admitted that DFBB can beat all 4 of them if it weren't for lover boy being bullied by RYY. And this practically translates to 3 Greats>9 2nd tier XAJH fighters. But you can think about it, is DG9J sword leve better than Heavy Iron sword level? No. And therefore I'm convinced that even a 20 years old YG can beat the likes of XAJH 2nd tier fighters.

[Ren Ying Ying]

Yes He could. The DGQB that we use to compare better than the Greats or whatever, is the 40 years old+ DGQB. Remember, YG is a extreme talent being able to reach the cultivation of the likes of ZBT, Yideng, HYS at a decent age of 36.

I've said it. And the novel also stated directly (JY stated it from the narrator's view) that RWX, FZ, CX are around the same level.
And DFBB cleary was overwhelming RWX, XWT, LHC without trying. And later LHC even admitted that DFBB can beat all 4 of them if it weren't for lover boy being bullied by RYY. And this practically translates to 3 Greats>9 2nd tier XAJH fighters. But you can think about it, is DG9J sword leve better than Heavy Iron sword level? No. And therefore I'm convinced that even a 20 years old YG can beat the likes of XAJH 2nd tier fighters.

but this all lines in the lines that DFBB is only equal to the Greats of the condor trilogy, which i personally think is a great understatement for DFBB.

YG may be a great talent...but what about DGQB himself? this is comming from the man who claimed to have never lost a battle, who invented a whole set of sword technqiue to counter all types of weapons, then going beyond and comming up with a new and unique theories of sword.

still, just b/c YG went directly to the iron sword stage, doesn't automatically make him better than any user who practices DG 9 sword. afterall, if dugu 9 sword in theory can defeat anything that has a stance, then wrouldn't YG learning iron sword would pretty much make him invincible to a ridiculous point--which he obviously is not.

i even doubt a 30 year old DGQQ who just discovered the iron sword technique can whoop his own 29 self in three strokes.

[duguxiaojing]

To show my point: YG at 20 (and we're using a 36 years old YG right now) mastered Heavy Iron stage which is a level that FQY's DG9J can't win.

Maybe, maybe not. Not everyone believes that HIS stage came after DG9J which can also be formless as well. JY indirectly suggests that YG's swordsmanship is below LHC's(who has DGQB's complete techniques through DG9J?),although he also states that YG's inner power is superior. So i'm assuming to have completely inherit DGQB's sword techniques you would need LHC's DG9J and YG's level of inner power cultivation.

楊過到底練成了獨孤劍法沒有？他的武功境界到底如何？（江彥肢）
金庸：有一部分因為獨孤求敗傳下來沒這麼完整，所以他的劍法沒有很強。但他的內力強過令狐沖，因為十六年在 山崖對著瀑布練習，內力甚強。

Anyways the SPW greats(the lesser ones not including DFBB) could very well be equal to the ROCH greats, altough its a less popular theory

[Ren Ying Ying]

is that an interview w/ JY? awesome! wehre'd u get that stuff?

[Whsie]

Maybe, maybe not. Not everyone believes that HIS stage came after DG9J which can also be formless as well. JY indirectly suggests that YG's swordsmanship is below LHC's(who has DGQB's complete techniques through DG9J?),although he also states that YG's inner power is superior. So i'm assuming to have completely inherit DGQB's sword techniques you would need LHC's DG9J and YG's level of inner power cultivation.




Anyways the SPW greats(the lesser ones not including DFBB) could very well be equal to the ROCH greats, altough its a less popular theory

It's kind of hard to be convinced. Think about it, what is LHC doing everytime? Looking for weaknesses. However, YG's Heavy Iron is first formless which FQY then said would then be decided by who's internal is higher which obviously is YG. And DG9J's power is just no where near Heavy Iron or YG's Wood Sword.
And just to tell you, because LHC hasn't mastered DG9J yet, his sword is not yet formless. DG9J mastered is formless, but LHC hasn't got there yet.

And what evidence? One counter evidence that I can think of is when FZ and HYS both threw papers across the air. FZ threw and caused shock. HYS just threw. This shows FZ>HYS, but...... this HYS is the LOCH HYS which I have shown LOCH to be quite ridiculously weak(H7G can only blast between 1-2 zhang palm blasts). But ROCH, it's proven that they have all increased TREMENDOUSLY. And I seriously think HYS surpassed FZ even at Pre 22 Years ROCH where there is 14 years to improve(we all know how fast these guys improve).

[Whsie]

but this all lines in the lines that DFBB is only equal to the Greats of the condor trilogy, which i personally think is a great understatement for DFBB.

YG may be a great talent...but what about DGQB himself? this is comming from the man who claimed to have never lost a battle, who invented a whole set of sword technqiue to counter all types of weapons, then going beyond and comming up with a new and unique theories of sword.

still, just b/c YG went directly to the iron sword stage, doesn't automatically make him better than any user who practices DG 9 sword. afterall, if dugu 9 sword in theory can defeat anything that has a stance, then wrouldn't YG learning iron sword would pretty much make him invincible to a ridiculous point--which he obviously is not.

i even doubt a 30 year old DGQQ who just discovered the iron sword technique can whoop his own 29 self in three strokes.

How so?

DGQB is even a greater talent, BUT he has to create all these sword stuff by himself. If DGQB were to have learned it from the Condor like YG did, then DGQB for all I know may instantly get it. But creating the art would take more time. Like why was Z3F only able to reach Great when he is like over 100? That's because he created nearly from scratch which obviously is more time consuming then learning from a old resource.

DG9J and Iron Sword is 2 different things, but I do think Iron Sword is above DG9J is sword status and it's also pretty obvious by the described power of Iron Sword which DG9J is no where able to match.

Why not? Heavy Iron sword relies on brute strength to overwhelm your opponent, which obviously is better than just to search for your opponent's weaknesses. Am I not correct?

[duguxiaojing]

RE:Whise

It's kind of hard to be convinced. Think about it, what is LHC doing everytime? Looking for weaknesses. However, YG's Heavy Iron is first formless which FQY then said would then be decided by who's internal is higher which obviously is YG. And DG9J's power is just no where near Heavy Iron or YG's Wood Sword.

Well, it's more like your own opinion that HIS and Wooden sword is superior to DG9J. Others may believe differntly (and should be allowed to) .

And just to tell you, because LHC hasn't mastered DG9J yet, his sword is not yet formless. DG9J mastered is formless, but LHC hasn't got there yet.

By the middle of the novel LHC seemed to have reached formlessness in his stances(at least in some circumstances). At times he was stabbing out wildly at times not even following proper martial norms. LHC still had a ways to go before he would master DG9J but he seemed to have a firm grip of the sword breaking stance.

And what evidence? One counter evidence that I can think of is when FZ and HYS both threw papers across the air. FZ threw and caused shock. HYS just threw. This shows FZ>HYS, but...... this HYS is the LOCH HYS which I have shown LOCH to be quite ridiculously weak(H7G can only blast between 1-2 zhang palm blasts). But ROCH, it's proven that they have all increased TREMENDOUSLY. And I seriously think HYS surpassed FZ even at Pre 22 Years ROCH where there is 14 years to improve(we all know how fast these guys improve).

...speculation on your part?
XWT pressed his footsteps into the ground...something JY a person with great level inner power could not do therefore,....jk not trying to bring anything up just trying to make a point.

Heavy Iron sword relies on brute strength to overwhelm your opponent, which obviously is better than just to search for your opponent's weaknesses

In your opinion it is superior, LHC owning a bunch of guys with a normal sword and inferior inner power(for the most part anyways) seems pretty damn impressive to me.

So what do you think about JY's comment then? Is his assumption incorrect?


RE:RYY

I got it from wikipedia. http://jinyong.ylib.com.tw/lib/jynews33.htm

[Whsie]

RE:Whise




Well, it's more like your own opinion that HIS and Wooden sword is superior to DG9J. Others may believe differntly .



By the middle of the novel LHC seemed to have reached formlessness in his stances(at least in some circumstances). At times he was stabbing out wildly at times not even following proper martial norms. LHC still had a ways to go before he would master DG9J but he seemed to have a firm grip of the sword breaking stance.





...speculation on your part?





In your opinion it is superior, LHC owning a bunch of guys with a normal sword and inferior inner power(for the most part anyways) seems pretty damn impressive to me.

So what do you think about JY's comment then? Is his assumption incorrect?


RE:RYY

I got it from wikipedia. http://jinyong.ylib.com.tw/lib/jynews33.htm

1. It's not opinion or opinion on this one, but it's facts. DG9J doesn't show the ability to cause gigantic waves like a wooden sword. Wooden is more forceful and powerful, that is the truth. From what I know, DG9J can't even cause overwhelming sword winds like Heavy Iron or Wood Sword can.
2. That doesn't mean mastering DG9J. Sword break stance won't work if your opponent is also formless which FQY as I said earlier would decide the match by who's internal is higher if both are formless, in which YG is higher.
3. Not speculation. I showed the feats during LOCH times. And it's shown that they improve a lot. The best example is GJ at 33 where he was already able to master XL18Z refined. And yet, he is still equal to one of the Greats. And another example is during that 16 year period where all the Greats have to improve in order to match YG in some way. These all show decent improvements. JLFW decribed as enhancing his ability by times.
It is superior in power which is all it needs. Power overwhelming everything, much better than looking around for weaknesses. LHC seems more impressive, but definitely not better. Whips coming, not problem, use the sword wind. Palm coming, use the sword power(YG was able to match QQR's Metal Palm). Not as impressive, but better.
It seems a bit doubtful. But it's JY's words. It could be correct, I won't deny that it is wrong or not. However, it's clear that DG9J can't perform any of the sword winds that Heavy Iron can.

[Extremer88]

Didn't XAJH states than under the powerful strokes of DG9J, anyone can defeat anybody who have higher internal energy easily?

So if this is true, does that mean LHC's swordmanship is better than YG?