Team DGSD brothers vs Team Trilogy+SPT+(LHC)

[VetaMega]

Team DGSD brothers = Duan Yu, Xiao Feng, Xu Zhu
Team Trilogy + SPT = Zhang Wu Ji, Guo Jing, Yang Guo (all skills + Heavy Iron Sword), Shi Po Tong

You can even add LHC on Team Trilogy to make thing more interesting

I personally say Zhang Wu Ji and Guo Jing gang up on Xu Zhu, Yang Guo with Heavy Iron Takes on Xiao Feng, Shi Po Tong takes on Duan Yu. LHC can try and move in to mess stuff up for team DGSD

[R!chard]

I would match GJ with XF (the battle of XL18Z vs XL28Z), SPT with DY (speed vs speed) and throw ZWJ at XZ (one punching bag against another). YG can just hang out with his Gugu and watch the fights....

[Whsie]

XF and GJ would take forever to find out the victory.

SPT would take on either XZ or DY. The success of the DGSD Brothers rely on whether or not DY can fully use his 6MSJ. If not, the DGSD Brothers are screwed. Even if DY can use 6MSJ, then the victory still isn't decided against SPT.
That leaves ZWJ and YG against XZ. In theory, XZ should be able to easily beat 2 Greats like SPT, but the problem is that he can only utilize 50%-60% of his internal. Even though XZ probably still has more internal than ZWJ and YG together, but XZ SEVERLY lacks experience. Plus the fact that XZ is the 2nd worst fighter in this group behind DY (DY just flat down don't like to fight). So I don't know....., there are too many "if" for the DGSD Brothers....

So my bet is SPT+Trilogy Elite of ZWJ, YG, GJ.

[VetaMega]

What if Xu Zhu can use 100% of his internal engeral, Duan Yu can use 100% of his 6MSJ abilities, and Xiao Feng still has his warrior spirit.

I think Xiao Feng can take on ZWJ and GJ at the same time at least for a while...allowing Xu Zu or Duan Yu to kick the crap out of eveyone else first...

[CC]

IMHO, SPT is the only other person who has a chance of matching XZ in inner strength.

[resident:alien]

I would say DGSD.

XF > GJ

DY gets owned, but XZ would pwn someone else.

[VetaMega]

SPT has an edge I think in techniques compared to XuZhu with OTG but I think he might lose just a little bit in internal energy.....the real question is whether anyone can catch Duan Yu. If he is cornered by the heavy sword and DG9J maybe. I wonder if 6MSJ can slice through the heavy sword. Yang Guo can also use his sad palms with his sleave to distract Duan Yu. Though I think Duan Yu would ignore his own battle and just run around using his LBWB and distract everyone else first.

[Whsie]

It's true that if XZ can utilize 100% of his internal and DY can fully use his 6MSJ, then DGSD Brothers win. But, it was STATED that XZ can utilize between 50-60%. And DY DOES have problems working his 6MSJ out. XF is the only one that can fully utilize his potential and no have so many "if"s(and I feel XF is ~ GJ, that takes forever). On the other side, all the fighters can use their full ability and I think with the limitations of the DGSD Brothers, I'm in favor of Trilogy+SPT.

[K2Grey]

Xu Zhu's ability to use his nei li was stated back in the JMZ fight and not in Chapter 40...

[Whsie]

Xu Zhu's ability to use his nei li was stated back in the JMZ fight and not in Chapter 40...

XZ's % use of internal was stated during the DCQ/XZ fight....

3 Reasons why XZ didn't finish off DCQ in a second:
1. XZ can only utilize 50%-60% of his internal.
2. XZ lacks experience
3. XZ was afraid of the poison. Even though XZ's internal was more than enough to overcome the poison, XZ doesn't know it.

[K2Grey]

OK, same deal though. He sucked then. But the Chapter 40 version is presumably much different.

[Whsie]

it may be true that XZ did get slighty better, but I doubt much more. It's VERY obvious that he hates fighting and overall is a sucky fighter. Even at the end of the book, he still SEVERLY lacks experience. And I'm not convinced that XZ can utilize even 70% of his internal yet.

[Ren Wo Xing]

SPT matches up evenly vs Xu Zhu. Xiao Feng matches up evenly with Guo Jing. Duan Yu? I'd like to see his Liumaishenjian vs Dugujiujian; Duan Yu vs Linghu Chong should be interesting. Plus, Duan Yu has Beiming, Linghu Chong has Xixing. Should be interesting.

Yang Guo and Zhang Wuji just make it even more in Team Trilogy+SPT+LHC's favor.

Key is SPT though. Without him, I'm not sure if there's anyone who can take Xu Zhu on.

[Ren Ying Ying]

SPT matches up evenly vs Xu Zhu. Xiao Feng matches up evenly with Guo Jing. Duan Yu? I'd like to see his Liumaishenjian vs Dugujiujian; Duan Yu vs Linghu Chong should be interesting. Plus, Duan Yu has Beiming, Linghu Chong has Xixing. Should be interesting.

Yang Guo and Zhang Wuji just make it even more in Team Trilogy+SPT+LHC's favor.

Key is SPT though. Without him, I'm not sure if there's anyone who can take Xu Zhu on.

if DY is able to fully utilize his powers, i think he'd be able to take on LHC. but i do agree the other two pairs are pretty well matched. so if the free YG & ZWJ helps LHC out, then the three should be able to take down DY in no time. then the three of them could help out either SPT or GJ, making four to one and quickly overwhelm the rest of the opponents

[Whsie]

looks like my opinion is finally started to be agreed on a bit...

SPT~XZ, XF~GJ eliminates those sets.

DY "might" win if he can fully utilize his 6MSJ which IMO still has its problems... and his fighting sucks badly as well.

I agree with RWX, SPT is the key because even with XZ's sucky fighting ability, his internal is like god even only with 50%-60% useable at that point. And that may be too much for any pair of Great.

[PJ]

IMHO, SPT is the only other person who has a chance of matching XZ in inner strength.

I don't think Shi Potian is even close to Xuzhu's level yet in internal cultivation. In fact I don't think anyone in the Jin Yong universe, including the Sweeper Monk, has attained close to Xuzhu's abundance of internal energy.

edit: about Shi Potian... before going to Gallant Island, he was comfortably taking full-scale hits from the highest internal expert of the Central Plains, and this expert even had to take a break due to exhaustion of hitting Shi Potian which didn't have any real effect. Also Bai Zizai (the expert) suffered some pain from hitting Shi which was like hitting a wall. This may seem very impressive (and it is) but if we look at ROCH, Reverend Jueyuan's 9 Yang internal energy was able to automatically repel XiaoxiangZi several zhang back and injure him. IMO XiaoxiangZi should be above Bai Zizai's level. So I doubt at this point Shi Potian has reached Reverend Jueyuan's (and other Greats') level of internal energy yet.

After mastering Ode to Gallantry art, Shi Potian defeated the combined forces of 2 lords of the island, who are usually regarded to be as good as the LOCH Greats (I don't think they are at ROCH Greats level yet). If I were to rate them it would be something like this:

Xiao Feng, Jiumozhi, Xiao Yuanshan, Murong Bo - 100%
LOCH Greats, Lord Long and Lord Mu of Gallant Island - 60%
Duan Zhengming, Duan Yanqing, Ding Chunqiu - 30%

For Shi Potian to defeat the 2 lords, he needs to have more than 120% of the power. Let's say he is between 150% and 200%. He could have more or slightly less, we don't know for sure, but let me take the middle at 175%. Well, Xuzhu's internal energy should be around 400% of Xiao Feng's level, if we are to believe that Xiaoyao Sect elders are slightly better than Xiao Feng's level. So adding both to the ranking, it would look something like this:

Xuzhu - 400%
Shi Potian - 175%
Xiao Feng, Jiumozhi, Xiao Yuanshan, Murong Bo - 100%
LOCH Greats, Lord Long and Lord Mu of Gallant Island - 60%
Duan Zhengming, Duan Yanqing, Ding Chunqiu - 30%

[CC]

PJ,

But how did you get XXZ > BZZ?


K2Grey, Whsie,

Whats this about XZ in chapter 40? The DCQ fight is 42. You meant chapter 50?

The chapter 50 XZ is at least equal to TSTL. JY described his ability in rather strong praise.

The chapter 50 DY can also utilise fine control of a sabre + do flying kicks + block palm blasts with his own palm. Now, this is astounding in view of the fact that DY _NEVER_ learnt any sabre, palm or leg techniques! Just 10 chapters ago, DY was running face first into MRF's feet/palm.

And both of them could confidently charge the Liao army who fully prepared for an elite martial artist to attack (i.e. Xiao Feng). Note that XF himself was not 100% sure he can charge an army alone without injury in an earlier chapter.

So no, they are no longer the bumbling inexperienced klutz they were 10 chapters ago, but that still doesn't make them combat veterans.

Still, even with 100% power + working 6MSJ, they are outnumbered 5 to 3. Not good. Even worse when you chuck in LHC.

[Ken Cheng]

In fact I don't think anyone in the Jin Yong universe, including the Sweeper Monk, has attained close to Xuzhu's abundance of internal energy.

What gave you that idea?

[CC]

What gave you that idea?

No concrete proof IMHO but for Sweeps to have equal inner power to XZ and assuming that Sweeps is 60-80 yrs old, he would have to gather inner energy 3-4 times faster then incredibly talented exponents like the XYP elders. And that is still dependant on 2 assumptions :

1. XZ's own training did not improve his absolute chi reserve much.

2. WYZ did not use his Bei Ming much to absorb others in his earlier years.


Or maybe another way to look at it. If XZ had the technique (which Sweeps did), could he just tap XYS with 30% energy and still have 70% to defend against XF's palm?

Again, its all speculation.

[VetaMega]

I still think xiao feng can take on or at least stall two greats - like ZWJ and Guo Jing. If he only fought Guo Jing...I'd think he'd win.

I never thought Guo Jing to be all that great...he was still weaker than the greats at the end of LOCH and by ROCH though he matched evenly with OYF, his internal power was weaker than pre-dragonelephant GWM....Not to mention he almost got killed by 1 semi-great tibetan + 3 semi-semi great mongols....even XLN was able to stall those people for a long time.....I think everyone's overestimating him.

Where XF can take on 50 multiple weaks opponents at the mansion without showing a sign of weakness, move inside an sheilded armored army to capture it's leader, and stall three greats for a while and two greats for about 2 hours...

In the end, Guo Jing seriously lacks fighting experiance compared to XF. And the sheer presence of XF would intimidate Guo Jing. Not to mention GJ is stupid and XF does use tricks from time to time. Sheer Powerwise, I think XF is greater than Guo Jing and technique wise, I don't think XF is lacking by much especially with demon-subduing and dragon-capture.. In ferocity, XF surpasses GJ as well...he simply likes to win more adn I am not even mentioning his warrior spirt. There's not a lot of areas where GJ surpasses XF. I've always seen Guo Jing as somewhat of a weak person, even weaker than ZWJ. The only area where he showed real strength was in the taoist ZNS, but that's because all the taoists sucked, none of them were armored, and they depended on their formation too much. GJ read a stratagy book for goodness sakes, formations are like nothing to him. XF doesn't use formations.... GJ can't last 30 stances against XF.

Still, even with 100% power + working 6MSJ, they are outnumbered 5 to 3. Not good. Even worse when you chuck in LHC.

They're out numbered 4 to 3 and if you chuck in LHC, it becomes 5 to 3.