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Thread: Jinyong Character Level Ranking Chart

  1. #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by CC View Post
    Placing the focus of your argument on the word 'Army' instead of the word 'Charging/charged', is using a classic 'Strawman' argument tactic. As I mentioned above, the word I used was 'charged', not 'defeat/destroy/butchered/beat/hammered/stomped etc'. That makes all the difference.
    In conventional warfare, when charging the aim is to kill the enemies. But, in reality, unless you can see where your enemy is and your enemy does not do anything, charging may be totally useless. I remember that well during a training exercise many years ago. I merrily lead a section (9 of us) to charge at 2 enemies - "killed" them. When the section gather together for the next mission, a few "dummy" grenades were thrown towards us. 3 other enemies were merrily sitting on top of a slope.

    Ten soldiers may be down, another twenty appeared, forty, hundred, ... are you able to fight all?

  2. #502
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    Think that might be more applicable if two groups of people or armies charged at each other, but when three people charge an army and capture a king, it's pretty clear they didn't kill the whole army before getting to the king.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tape View Post
    Think that might be more applicable if two groups of people or armies charged at each other, but when three people charge an army and capture a king, it's pretty clear they didn't kill the whole army before getting to the king.
    They didn't, but the way CC's argument was presented makes it *sound* like they did. WE know they didn't because we're all familiar with the story already, but imagine if someone who'd never read or seen DGSD were to encounter that statement. They'd probably get the wrong idea until it was broken down more specifically what had happened.

  4. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by CC View Post
    We have been in this forum long enough to know each of the old veterans' personality quirks. Including not backing down but stubbornly arguing on.
    It's only fun when you in no way believe what you're arguing.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    I thought they are done with the rankings.
    "Big Hero Linghu kills frogs with the Dugu Nine Swords!”


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    Default The strongest character in Jinyong novel

    Quote Originally Posted by WuxiaMaster View Post
    This list is last updated on 16th Jan 2014
    This list is last updated on 10th Oct 2014

    Legendary Level (武林神话)– Omnipotent, Invincible & Godlike. Unattainable.

    1) Sweeper Monk (TL)
    2) Dugu Qiubai (RO / XAJH) – Speculation. He is considerably better than Dong Fang Bu Bai.

    Level 90 (登峰造极)– The pinnacle of martial arts and perfection!

    1) Shi Po Tian (XKX)
    2) Xu Zhu (TL)

    LV85: Wu Ya Zi (TL)
    LV85: Tian Shan Tong Lao (TL)
    LV85: Li Qiu Shui (TL)
    LV85: Duan Yu (TL)
    LV85: Dongfang Bu Bai (XA)

    LV85: Huang Shang, Creator of Jiuyin (LO) – Speculation. Added due to overwhelming request.

    Level 80 (绝世高手)- Only the strongest characters in all of Jinyong Novels reaches here.

    1) Xiao Feng (TL)
    2) Murong Bo (TL)
    3) Xiao Yuan Shan (TL)

    LV 78: Wang Chong Yang (LO) – Author Intention. If survived till RO end.

    LV 78: Yang Guo (RO) - Post 16 Years, without Heavy Iron Sword.
    LV 78: Guo Jing (RO)
    LV 77: Zhou Botong (RO)
    LV 77: Jinlun Guoshi / Fawang(RO)
    LV 77: Zhang San Feng (YT)
    LV 77: Zhang Wu Ji (YT)

    Level 75 (绝顶高手)- The "4 Greats" Level.

    1) East Heretic, Huang Yao Shi (RO)
    2) South Emperor, Yideng (RO)
    3) West Venom, Ouyang Feng (RO). If survived till ROCH end.
    4) North Beggar, Hong Qi Gong (RO). If survived till ROCH end.

    5) Jiu Mo Zhi (TL)

    LV 75: Guo Xiang (YT) – Speculation of highest level reached.
    LV 75: Feng Qing Yang (XA) - Speculation, based on RWX & other characters description.

    LV 72: Yang Guo (RO) - Pre 16 years, using Heavy Iron Sword
    LV 72: Qiu Qian Ren / Ci En (RO) - Post 16 years, during battle against Fawang.
    LV 72: Fang Zheng (XA)
    LV 72: Lord Long/Mu of Xia Ke Island (XKX)

    LV 72: Yellow Dressed Girl, Lady Yang - Speculation.

    Level 70 – The "Sub-Greats". Extremely powerful characters that rarely meet his match.

    1) The 4 Greats at the End of LOCH (2nd Mt Hua) - Speculation
    2) Ren Wo Xing (XA)
    3) Xiao Long Nu (RO) – After learning Left/Right Technique
    4) Yang Ding Tian (YT) - Speculation

    LV 69: Ling Hu Chong (XA)
    LV 66: Chong Xu (XA)

    Level 65 – Upper tier Elites. Extremely strong characters that few can win against 1 on 1.

    1) Duan Zheng Ming (TL)
    2) Duan Yan Qing (TL)
    3) Xuan Ci, Shaolin Abbot (TL)
    4) Yue Bu Qun (XA) - After Learning Pixie
    5) Xiang Wen Tian (XA)
    6) Zhang San / Li Si (XKX)
    7) Du Wei/Du Jie/Du Nan (YT) - Range From LV65 to LV62 (Strongest To Weakest)
    8) Guo Jing (LO) - At the end of LOCH.

    LV 62: Ding Chun Qiu (TL)
    LV 62: Zuo Leng Chan (XA) – Before Blinded
    LV 62: Divine Condor, Shen Diao (RO)

    Level 60 – Mid tier Elites. Major characters & villians.

    1) Murong Fu (TL)
    2) You Tan Zhi (TL)
    3) Sword God Zhuo Bu Fan (TL)
    4) Huang Rong (RO) - Full Health, Non Pregnant State.
    5) Cheng Kun (YT) – Before Blinded.
    6) Xuan Ming Elders - Lu Zhang Ke, He Bi Weng (YT)
    7) Two Demons of Hejian, Bu Tai and Hao Mi (YT)

    He Zu Dao (YT) – Estimation, dead before story.

    LV 58: Xie Yan Ke (XKX)

    Level 55 – Lower tier Elites. Major characters & villains

    1) Gongsun Chi (RO)
    2) Yang Xiao (YT)
    3) Fan Yao (YT)
    4) Bu Jie Monk (XAJH)
    5) Bai Zi Zai (XKX)

    LV54: Ah Da (YT)
    LV52: Ah Er (YT)
    LV51: Ah San (YT)

    Level 50 – Upper tier experts in Jinyong Main Novels.

    1) White Eagle, Yin Tian Zheng (YT)
    2) Green Bat, Wei Yi Xiao (YT)
    3) Golden Lion, Xie Xun (YT)
    4) Mie Jue (YT) - Using the Heavenly Sword.
    5) Nimo Xing (RO)
    6) Yin Kexin (RO)
    7) Xiao Xiangzi (RO)

    LV 48: Ding Bu Si (XKX)
    LV 48: Ding Bu San (XKX)
    LV 48: Bei Hai Shi (XKX)
    LV 48: Li Mo Chou (RO)

    Level 45 – Lower tier experts in Jinyong Main Novels.

    1) Purple Dragon, Zi Sha Long Wang / Jin Hua Popo (YT)
    2) Duan Zheng Chun (TL)
    3) Ying Gu (RO)
    4) Shi Qing (XKX)
    5) Min Rou (XKX)
    6) Bai Wan Jian (XKX)
    7) QZ 2nd Gen Elders (RO) - Range From Qiu Chu Ji (LV50), Ma Yu, Wang Chu Yi to Sun Bu Er (LV36)
    8) Mei Chaofeng (LO) – Blinded, at battle against QZ 7 Priests

    LV 44: Mo Da (XAJH)
    LV 42: Yue Bu Qun (XAJH) – Pre Pixie Swordplay
    LV 42: Ouyang Ke (LO) - Before crippled.
    LV 42: Feng Mo Feng (RO) - Crippled
    LV 42: Daerba (RO) - At Martial Art meet
    LV 42: Yang Guo (RO) - Before losing his arm.

    Level 40 – Seasoned pugilists and leaders of small sects. Top tier in Qing Dynasty.

    1) Yun Zhong He (TL)
    2) Ye Er Niang (TL)
    3) Yue Lao San (TL)
    4) Murong Fu 4 Followers (TL)
    5) Yideng Disciples (RO) - Range from Zhu Zi Liu (LV48), Diancang Yuyin to Wu Santong (LV40)
    6) Huo Du (RO) – At Marital Art Meet
    7) Zhou Zhi Ruo (YT) - After learning Jiu Yin Bai Gu Zhua
    8) Most of Wudang 7 Swordmen (YT) - Range From LV45 to LV40
    9) He Tai Chong, Kunlun Leader (YT)
    10) Ren Ying Ying (XA)
    11) 10 Elders of Sun Moon Cult (XA)
    12) Liu Zheng Feng, Tianmen Dao Ren (XA)
    13) Qu Yang (XA)
    14) Taogu 6 Immortals (XA)
    15) Lord Hong of Divine Dragon Island (LDJ)
    16) Qiu Chu Ji, Ma Yu, Wang Chu Yi (LO) - LV41,40,39 respectively.
    17) Ying Gu (LO)
    18) Jiu Nan (LDJ)
    19) Hong An Tong (LDJ)

    LV 36: Yu Cang Hai (XA)
    LV 36: Mu Gao Feng (XA)
    LV 36: Ding Yi, Ding Xian (XA)

    Level 35 – Medicore in Song Dynasty, Top Tier in Qing Dynasty

    1) All the other 2nd generation Quanzhen Disciples (LO)
    2) Ao Bai (LDJ)
    3) Chen Jin Nan (LDJ)
    4) Feng Xi Fan (LDJ)
    5) Hu Yi Dao (XSFH)
    6) Miao Fan Tian (XSFH)
    7) Tian Bo Guang (XA)
    8) Zhong Wan Chou (TL)

    LV 32: Lingzhi Shangren (LO)
    LV 32: Liang Ziweng (LO)
    LV 30: Sha Tong Tian (LO)
    LV 30: Yelu Qi (RO) - Pre 16 Years

    Level 25 - Weak in Song Dynasty, Elite in Qing Dynasty

    1) Cheng Ying (RO) - Pre 16 Years
    2) Sha Gu (LO) - Nutcase
    3) Ling Hu Chong (XAJH) - At start of novel
    4) Hai Dafu (LDJ)
    5) Most of Duan Zheng Chun's wives - Qin Hong Mian, Dao Bai Feng

    Level 20 - Very Weak in Song Dynasty, Mediocre in Qing Dynasty

    1) 7 Freaks of Jiangnan (LO) - Average of the 7 freaks
    2) Yang Tie Xin (LO)
    3) Guo Xiao Tian (LO)
    4) Ma Guang Zuo (RO)
    5) Lu Wu Shuang (RO) - Pre 16 Years
    6) Most Hall Leaders of Qing Mu Tang (LDJ)
    7) Su Quan (LDJ)

    Level 15 - Can take on a handful of trained soldiers.

    1) Zhao ZhiJing, Quanzhen 3rd Gen Disciple (RO)
    2) Zhen Zhibing, Quanzhen 3rd Gen Disciple (RO)
    3) Huanghe 4 Ghosts (LO)
    4) Shuang Er (LDJ)

    Level 10 - Have the most basic of martial arts. Can take on a few commoners/angry peasants.

    'Nameless' sect disciples in many novels will fall in here.

    1) Wu Xiuwen (RO) - Pre 16 years.
    2) Wu Dunru (RO) - Pre 16 years.
    3) Most of Wei Xiao Bao's wives - Ah Ke, Zeng Rou, Fang Yi, Mu Jian Ping (LDJ)
    The strongest character in Jinyong's novel should be from Sword of the Yue Maiden. It is the female character Qing. She learned and created her martial from animals and she was said to be stronger than even the legendary monk Da Mo from in any of Jinyong's novel. She was known to be so powerful that she was able to defeat 3000 soldiers by herself when no other high level character (level 80) can do. She should be able to beat 4 to 5 of the level 85 characters at the same time herself without the problem. Doubt even the Legendary Level can attain that level. I would say she is probably at level 100 or higher. In fact, she is a historical person in history as well.
    Last edited by GonFC; 02-22-15 at 02:00 AM.

  7. #507
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    I challenge anyone to prove that 9 ying zhen jing is a lesser art than anything Dugu Qiubai came up with.

  8. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by GonFC View Post
    The strongest character in Jinyong's novel should be from Sword of the Yue Maiden. It is the female character Qing. She learned and created her martial from animals and she was said to be stronger than even the legendary monk Da Mo from in any of Jinyong's novel. She was known to be so powerful that she was able to defeat 3000 soldiers by herself when no other high level character (level 80) can do. She should be able to beat 4 to 5 of the level 85 characters at the same time herself without the problem. Doubt even the Legendary Level can attain that level. I would say she is probably at level 100 or higher. In fact, she is a historical person in history as well.
    I think Ah Qing should be considered as a figure from a parallel universe to the setting of Jin Yong's main novels, bordering on fantasy and mythology beyond wuxia.

  9. #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt View Post
    I challenge anyone to prove that 9 ying zhen jing is a lesser art than anything Dugu Qiubai came up with.
    Most people agree that Dugu and his arts are better over countless posts spanning over a decade. Just search for them; doubt anybody is going to have more articulated arguments than the ones in the early 2000's. If those posts don't convince you, nothing new has surfaced since.

  10. #510
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    But Sweeper Monk level?????? I've been away for too long.

    If we're going to rank people who have no feats with Sweeper Monk who literally tapped out TWO Xiao Feng level people, we should put Feng Qingyang up there because he mastered Dugu 9 Jian.
    Last edited by Dirt; 02-25-15 at 11:13 AM.

  11. #511
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt View Post
    But Sweeper Monk level?????? I've been away for too long.

    If we're going to rank people who have no feats with Sweeper Monk who literally tapped out TWO Xiao Feng level people, we should put Feng Qingyang up there because he mastered Dugu 9 Jian.
    I won't say anything about him in comparison to Sweeper, but in comparison to the Greats I think it's pretty clear cut.

    With regards to feats, it's not that he has no feats, his feats are just off-screen. He was undefeated in his time and created several martial arts that are generally stronger than Greats-type martial arts. As for why people like to rank him despite being off screen, people just do and JY contributes by mentioning him repeatedly across novels. Fans speculate on offscreen characters all the time, and I don't think it's anything extreme to speculate on the most well known legendary-type figure in JY canon.

  12. #512
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I think Ah Qing should be considered as a figure from a parallel universe to the setting of Jin Yong's main novels, bordering on fantasy and mythology beyond wuxia.
    She should still be a valid basis for comparison though. Besides, Han Xiaoying, one of the Jiangnan Seven Freaks, had the nickname of "Yueh Maiden Sword" for the sword art she used. It's not hard to imagine that this was a distant facsimile of A Qing's original skill.

  13. #513
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToastedRossi View Post
    She should still be a valid basis for comparison though. Besides, Han Xiaoying, one of the Jiangnan Seven Freaks, had the nickname of "Yueh Maiden Sword" for the sword art she used. It's not hard to imagine that this was a distant facsimile of A Qing's original skill.
    I'd rather not include her, because she wrecks the curve.

    I have a pretty firm distaste for curve-wrecking characters such as Ah Qing, Dook Goo Kau Bai, and to a lesser extent, the Janitor Monk. Some people like the idea of these nigh-omnipotent figures, but to me, they just sort of throw Jin Yong's carefully-arranged pecking order completely out of whack.

  14. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I'd rather not include her, because she wrecks the curve.

    I have a pretty firm distaste for curve-wrecking characters such as Ah Qing, Dook Goo Kau Bai, and to a lesser extent, the Janitor Monk. Some people like the idea of these nigh-omnipotent figures, but to me, they just sort of throw Jin Yong's carefully-arranged pecking order completely out of whack.
    Xu Zhu does it just as bad. At least Sweeper Monk attacked and beat the great level fighters. Xu Zhu just stood there, with no control of his energy, and Jiumozhi wound up beating himself up just hitting him.

  15. #515
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    Quote Originally Posted by tape View Post
    Xu Zhu does it just as bad. At least Sweeper Monk attacked and beat the great level fighters. Xu Zhu just stood there, with no control of his energy, and Jiumozhi wound up beating himself up just hitting him.
    What helps offset Hui Juk's otherwise outrageous power levels are his ineptitude and the fact that he's still vulnerable to Kiu Fung-level fighters (such as Kau Mor Tze) when such fighters are carrying sharp weapons. Barehanded, Kau Mor Tze was hopelessly outmatched by Hui Juk, but when Kau Mor Tze produced a dagger, Hui Juk was in trouble.

    Trust me: even for the top of the pile in wulin, a vulnerability or two makes for a better character. "Invincibility" is the most overrated quality ever.

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    Well for me personally, it's easier to accept Sweeper destroying Great level fighters before they can do anything than to see a Great level fighter hacking fruitlessly at someone and wind up injured. Xu Zhu's vulnerability to weapons is largely removed near the end of DGSD when he actually learns martial arts and is supposedly adept at them.

    After all, someone like Huang Yaoshi could demolish the Quanzhen members, but even he was almost injured by Qiu Chuji's sleeve/palm wind. Sweeper can be rationalized at the least because he has godlike martial arts knowledge along with his power...Xu Zhu has similar power with no knowledge at all, and that isn't necessarily easier/better to swallow.

  17. #517
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    Quote Originally Posted by tape View Post
    Well for me personally, it's easier to accept Sweeper destroying Great level fighters before they can do anything than to see a Great level fighter hacking fruitlessly at someone and wind up injured. Xu Zhu's vulnerability to weapons is largely removed near the end of DGSD when he actually learns martial arts and is supposedly adept at them.

    After all, someone like Huang Yaoshi could demolish the Quanzhen members, but even he was almost injured by Qiu Chuji's sleeve/palm wind. Sweeper can be rationalized at the least because he has godlike martial arts knowledge along with his power...Xu Zhu has similar power with no knowledge at all, and that isn't necessarily easier/better to swallow.
    According to JY, Sweeper was supposed to have even greater internal energy than XZ, but when he simply stood there and did not defend, XF was able to break his rib, so who really knows.

    Curve breaking characters certainly have their place, both as a narrative device and a fantasy element, so I have no problem in accepting that characters like Ah Qing, Sweeper, and DGQB are just that good. You aren't supposed to be able to measure their level as much as you observe and awe in their feats.

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    Hi everyone - I don't understand why Li Mo Chou is level 48 and Huang Rong is level 60? Is it Huang Rong post-16 years? During the fight in the forest, they were almost at the same level. Huang Rong was still stronger but she won mainly from her wits. I just don't understand why they are 12 levels apart?

    "黃蓉與她拆了這十餘招,知她武功比之自己也差不了多少"

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    Quote Originally Posted by yanyan View Post
    Hi everyone - I don't understand why Li Mo Chou is level 48 and Huang Rong is level 60? Is it Huang Rong post-16 years? During the fight in the forest, they were almost at the same level. Huang Rong was still stronger but she won mainly from her wits. I just don't understand why they are 12 levels apart?

    "黃蓉與她拆了這十餘招,知她武功比之自己也差不了多少"
    I think she just gave birth and didn't fully recover yet.

  20. #520
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    Oh, dear. I've been away for far too long. I don't know if I have the energy anymore.

    Suffice it to say, Huang Shang created and mastered a martial art that Wang Chongyang was able to learn something from and the other 4 Greats also coveted. bam

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