Jinyong Character Level Ranking Chart

[ChanceEncounter]

I would say that the wooden sword level is the same as the HIS level. Except, you don't need the HIS. The HIS enhanced Yang Guo's abilities, he wasn't as powerful without it. It was a crutch. In the end, Yang Guo used Sad Palms to defeat JLGS: his palms. In a way, a sword without a sword.

edit: Yang Guo focused his sadness at the thought of not being with Xiao Longnu again into a point like a sword and thrust that sadness at JLGS like a sword but without a sword.

This is quite possibly the worst logic I've ever heard. So because YG beat someone bare-handed, that means he's achieved a sword without a sword level? Thus anyone who uses palms achieves the same metaphysical level? That's not even reasonable.

Also, the whole point of the sword tomb was to show a level of progression, each stage being something that triumphs over the previous stage. There's no point in DGQB moving from a heavy iron sword, developing a ton more internal (a level that YG never reached), just so he could swing around a wooden stick to be exact same level as he was before. The whole point of "overcoming a sword without a sword" is that the philosophy is that, since a sword is 'dead' and a person is 'alive', living beats dead, and thus a person who has reached that philosophical level would literally be superior without a sword than with one.

Because it's a philosophical axiom, DGQB's attainment of this level is philosophically similar to SM's attainment of enlightenment, in which he somehow manages to have more internal energy than XZ who has three very long lifetimes of very high internal. They represent the very pinnacle of two different metaphysical philosophies.

[Dirt]

This is quite possibly the worst logic I've ever heard. So because YG beat someone bare-handed, that means he's achieved a sword without a sword level? Thus anyone who uses palms achieves the same metaphysical level? That's not even reasonable.

Also, the whole point of the sword tomb was to show a level of progression, each stage being something that triumphs over the previous stage. There's no point in DGQB moving from a heavy iron sword, developing a ton more internal (a level that YG never reached), just so he could swing around a wooden stick to be exact same level as he was before. The whole point of "overcoming a sword without a sword" is that the philosophy is that, since a sword is 'dead' and a person is 'alive', living beats dead, and thus a person who has reached that philosophical level would literally be superior without a sword than with one.

Because it's a philosophical axiom, DGQB's attainment of this level is philosophically similar to SM's attainment of enlightenment, in which he somehow manages to have more internal energy than XZ who has three very long lifetimes of very high internal. They represent the very pinnacle of two different metaphysical philosophies.

How does a person, logically, use a sword without an actual sword?

[WuxiaMaster]

How does a person, logically, use a sword without an actual sword?

The closest example I could think of would be 6MSJ. It's "jian" (sword) without sword.

[ChanceEncounter]

How does a person, logically, use a sword without an actual sword?

How does a player, logically, kill someone and then resurrect them and change their entire life philosophy in the span of an hour or two?

It's not supposed to make perfect sense to the average person. That's why they're exceptional.

[PJ]

I've seen Sweeper Monk called many things. Player isn't one of them, until now.

[PJ]

Even if Dugu Qiubai ret...

Anyone want to do the honor?

[tape]

How does a person, logically, use a sword without an actual sword?

If we knew, we'd be Dugu Qiubai!

[pannonian]

How does a player, logically, kill someone and then resurrect them and change their entire life philosophy in the span of an hour or two?

It's not supposed to make perfect sense to the average person. That's why they're exceptional.

Sweeper Monk keeps multiple saved games. He plays and reloads until the RNG turns up the desired outcome.

[_Kenny_]

Wow, what an awesome ranking of JY's characters.

[_Kenny_]

How about adding in Lin Pingzhi? I've noticed the rankings did not list him and he's a fairly important character in the Smiling Proud Wanderer. After learning the Bixie swordplay, he's probably around level 50-60, since he took down 2 powerful characters in Yu Cang Hai and Mu Gao Feng pretty easily at the same time. Pre Bixie swordplay, he's probably around the Wu brothers of the ROCH level, only being able to take on a few angry peasants/commoners.

[CC]

Even if Dugu Qiubai ret...

Anyone want to do the honor?

Yes yes, I mean, JY even set it up in ROCH when he singled out the Greatness of GWM with "non before could said to be better even if the future was not know". And SPW was later...

[ThirdWayMonk]

Hmm.
Is Shi Po Tian really on a lower level than Sweeper Monk after he learns the Isles of Heroes martial art to go along with his unique internal cultivation + Demon-Subduing internal skills? Is there something in the original language version that places Sweeper monk above Shi Po Tian?

Also you didn't list Di Yun or Ding Dian?

[tape]

Hmm.
Is Shi Po Tian really on a lower level than Sweeper Monk after he learns the Isles of Heroes martial art to go along with his unique internal cultivation + Demon-Subduing internal skills? Is there something in the original language version that places Sweeper monk above Shi Po Tian?

Also you didn't list Di Yun or Ding Dian?

He still had to fight the island masters to beat them; Sweeper instantly knocked out Murong Bo and Xiao Yuanshan -- and it's hard to buy that the island masters are better than the DGSD elites.

[ToastedRossi]

Yes yes, I mean, JY even set it up in ROCH when he singled out the Greatness of GWM with "non before could said to be better even if the future was not know". And SPW was later...

To be fair, that was entirely in context of how Golden Wheel had mastered ten levels of the Elephant Prana and how no one before him had managed that feat.

He still had to fight the island masters to beat them; Sweeper instantly knocked out Murong Bo and Xiao Yuanshan -- and it's hard to buy that the island masters are better than the DGSD elites.

Shi Potian didn't get into any fights after he mastered the island's skills. What happened was that, in the last room, he started performing the moves and lost consciousness of what he was actually doing. When he came to, Long and Mu had already been defeated. The upper limit of Shi Potian's skills are unknown (and Long and Mu for that matter), so you can't conclusively say that he's weaker than anyone. Other than Ah Qing, that is. Nobody in Jin Yong's books are anything like her.

[PJ]

The lords also weren't trying to kill SPT. If they were, he who just attained greatness may not be so lucky.

And even low level fighters in late Ming dynasty can perform the so-called jumping across the ocean.

[Ken Cheng]

The lords also weren't trying to kill SPT. If they were, he who just attained greatness may not be so lucky.

And even low level fighters in late Ming dynasty can perform the so-called jumping across the ocean.

Caveat: probably not jumping across the WHOLE ocean.

Even you or I could "jump across the ocean" if it's a gap of just one or two feet between one side of the to the other.

[ToastedRossi]

The lords also weren't trying to kill SPT. If they were, he who just attained greatness may not be so lucky.

Given how badly he kicked their asses anyways, I doubt that it would have made much difference. At the very least, it would have been a repeat of Bai Zizai beating himself up on Shi Potian.

[tape]

To be fair, that was entirely in context of how Golden Wheel had mastered ten levels of the Elephant Prana and how no one before him had managed that feat.


Shi Potian didn't get into any fights after he mastered the island's skills. What happened was that, in the last room, he started performing the moves and lost consciousness of what he was actually doing. When he came to, Long and Mu had already been defeated. The upper limit of Shi Potian's skills are unknown (and Long and Mu for that matter), so you can't conclusively say that he's weaker than anyone. Other than Ah Qing, that is. Nobody in Jin Yong's books are anything like her.

Yeah generally that's what happened, but Sweeper beat them in one move each. The upper limit of Sweeper is also unknown; maybe he can beat every stronger fighters in one move. But I don't think it's very plausible to argue that Shi Potian was able to beat the island masters as easily as Sweeper beat Xiao and Murong considering Sweeper beat them with one move.

There is an area of uncertainty, but reading JY novels as a whole, it's pretty obvious Sweeper is better than everyone else.

[PJ]

Given how badly he kicked their asses anyways, I doubt that it would have made much difference. At the very least, it would have been a repeat of Bai Zizai beating himself up on Shi Potian.

The guy went thru the whole novel sucking at fighting, barely engaging a fraction of his martial arts. So all of a sudden he absorbs something great and he can suddenly be fully proficient in real combat? I don't think so. If the lords really wanted to kill him, AND he's not in a subconscious mode, I doubt he would be able to fully engage his newly absorbed power. He would continue to underperform until he has a lot more practice. I think that's common sense. He would be like ZWJ at Guangming Ding facing the orthodox clans.

XF half dead can "tie" his father, because his father isn't trying to kill him. YG pushing out a random stance lands a hit on GWM, b/c he's in subconscious mode. Combine the two and you have the lucky, unreproducible situation SPT found himself in.

[ToastedRossi]

The guy went thru the whole novel sucking at fighting, barely engaging a fraction of his martial arts. So all of a sudden he absorbs something great and he can suddenly be fully proficient in real combat?

Yes, absolutely.