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Thread: Jinyong Character Level Ranking Chart

  1. #21
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    you still have 2 HR. So is she in tier 6 or 7? I personally feel she is in 7.

    Actually for tier 3, I would be more tempted to put a + next to Z3F.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

  2. #22
    Senior Member HuangYushi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whsie
    but.... according to CC, there is a revised version(which I never saw). Anyhow, just a boo-boo on Lav's part is that he forgot to include the SWORD GOD Zuo Bufan and he forgot Lin Chao Yin.
    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    I think CC has yet to reach the peak of perfection in memory. There was only one version posted. A revised version was mentioned several years ago to be in-the-work, but I never saw it posted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Whsie
    Yes, I heard of Lav working on a new one, but I never saw it either. If you go to google and type in Laviathian's Ultimate Ranking in JY Universe, then it'll lead you to a thread that Lav says he is working on a revised version, but I never saw him post it.
    PJ and CC: Do you remember the Great Server Crash of June 2005? It wiped out two months' worth of posts that could never be recovered, including Lav's note on Lin Chao Ying's position in his Ultimate Ranking.
    Whsie: You might have just missed the Great Server Crash, if you came across the wuxia forum only after June 2005.
    Jin Yong's Ode to Gallantry [侠客行].
    Quote Originally Posted by atlantean0208
    what about SPT, I need my SPT fix ASAP, pretty pleaseeeee...
    Soon ... SOON!

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    The only claim would be that Zhang Sanfeng may exceed the level of Guo Xiang. However we don't know that for sure. And Yang Guo once speculated that Guo Xiang at age 70 could attain Reverend Yideng's level, which is around Zhang Sanfeng's level.
    I was keeping YG's comment in mind. That is why, I felt there is that possibility that Guo Xiang could reach tier 4, but more realistically, I'm more toward tier 5.

    I feel Wudang exceeded E-Mei because of Wudang's success into later times. As we all know, Wudang would be equal named with Shaolin as the 2 biggest wulin sects.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whsie
    you still have 2 HR. So is she in tier 6 or 7? I personally feel she is in 7.

    Actually for tier 3, I would be more tempted to put a + next to Z3F.
    Fixed HR. Quite hard to place her. JY gave her a raw deal in terms of her fighting ability descriptions. I put her higher at 6 mainly because of 9 Yin.

    Hah! Here we go! Its really hard to decide. I can't quite picture Z3F defeating the peak versions of GJ or XF or YG.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuangYushi
    Whsie: You might have just missed the Great Server Crash, if you came across the wuxia forum only after June 2005.
    Technically, I was at this forum as a guest for about 6 months. I later joined the wuxia area about in Sept, so yeah, I guess I missed it.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuangYushi
    PJ and CC: Do you remember the Great Server Crash of June 2005? It wiped out two months' worth of posts that could never be recovered, including Lav's note on Lin Chao Ying's position in his Ultimate Ranking.
    Whsie: You might have just missed the Great Server Crash, if you came across the wuxia forum only after June 2005.
    Ah yes. The great fire which destroyed the Southern Shao.. I mean the server crash which destroyed the original Kui Hua.... I mean Lav's notes.

    Guess we got to make do. Anyway, there was a big debate recently on JY's comments that LCY was ahead of WCY. Have to go dig that out.

  7. #27
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuangYushi
    PJ and CC: Do you remember the Great Server Crash of June 2005?
    I remember quite a few major crashes. However I do not recall any specific GREAT crash

    It wiped out two months' worth of posts that could never be recovered, including Lav's note on Lin Chao Ying's position in his Ultimate Ranking.
    My only recollection ever on Laviathan's note of Lin Chaoying is that he said he simply forgot to include her in the ranking.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by CC
    Guess we got to make do. Anyway, there was a big debate recently on JY's comments that LCY was ahead of WCY. Have to go dig that out.
    I think it was mainly because of the 3rd edition. JY directly stated that Lin Chao Yin always slightly surpassed WCY. However, as we know Lin Chao Yin dies a bit early. And after Hua Shan, WCY further improved himself with 9 Yin theories that can be used to counter Lin Chao Yin. So in the end, WCY won, but only because of living longer+9 Yin. It would have been another story if LCY lived to Hua Shan (still maintaining that slight edge she has over WCY) and won 9 Yin though....
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whsie
    I was keeping YG's comment in mind. That is why, I felt there is that possibility that Guo Xiang could reach tier 4, but more realistically, I'm more toward tier 5.
    I disagree.

    I feel Wudang exceeded E-Mei because of Wudang's success into later times. As we all know, Wudang would be equal named with Shaolin as the 2 biggest wulin sects.
    To me That just means Zhang Sanfeng was a better MARTIAL ARTIST than Guo Xiang in some ways, since Zhang was able to extend his teachings to much later generations (which I think is a characteristic of a good martial artist). But that doesn't mean Zhang Sanfeng has reached a higher level of martial arts than Guo Xiang. look at the Beggar's Brotherhood in SPW; they weren't quite on par with Shaolin or Wudang either. So does that mean Zhang Sanfeng was more powerful than the inventor of Dragon Palms and Dog-beating Stick? And check it out, the Duan family martial arts never appeared after ROCH. So does that mean Zhang Sanfeng is better than the inventor of Six Meridian Swords?
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  10. #30
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    I won't complain about GX's place anyway as I don't see that as significant as.... LIN CHAO YIN.

    Hm... in SPW, didn't XL18Z get lost? To my knowledge, based from XF teaching XZ and WJT teaching XF, I think XL18Z is hand to hand transmitting, no manual. By the time of Shi Huo Long, 6 has been lost. The other 12 technically speaking should have been lost after SHL died because he had no known successor that learned the 12 palms. So I personally thought that XL18Z was lost. As for Dog Beating Stick, I'm not sure.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

  11. #31
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Guo Xiang not as significant as Lin Chaoying? In what sense do you mean. Because as far as I know, Lin Chaoying's sect only lasted 3 or 4 generations. Emei was still mentioned in Smiling Proud Wanderer (and maybe even in later novels). So Guo Xiang is the one that established the more stable organization.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  12. #32
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    Thanks to PJ: I have no idea the lower 3 evils were THAT weak...I'll move them down 1 tier.

    Thanks to Whsie: Yes I never read the original novel of Yi Tian. Thanks for clearing them up. I think I'll move Zhang Wu Ji up 1 more tier since he's arguably the strongest main character in Jinyong novel...

    Last thing was about Tian Shan Tong Lao/Li Qiu Shui and Wu Ya Zi bunch. This one, i read the original novel before and I don't see them to be all that strong because they didn't once engage in battle with another person (generally). The only thing that we can conclude is like "The 3 of them are the same tier", and "Wu Ya Zi is way above Ding Chun Qiu".

    Wu Ya Zi died shortly after he appear. Tian Shan Tao Lao and Li Qiu Shui only like battle each other once (with XZ there), then died too, so not much clue to compare to...I've moved 3 of them to the ROCH greats levels~

  13. #33
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    going by the standards that you are choosing, you mind as well also add in the top fighters for Ode of Gallantary.

    For Legendary, you can add in the creator of Ode of Gallantary.
    Shi Po Tian can be placed next to XZ with an ultimate ideal formlessness art.
    Lord Long and Mu of Gallant Island is said to be around LOCH period Greats.
    Li Si and Zhang San (the disciples of Long and Mu Lord) each are "undefeated" in mainland.
    Yuchan and Miaodi are the Wudang and Shaolin leaders during the book.

    Personally, I believe these 8 people deserve a place in your point system rank.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whsie
    Yuchan and Miaodi are the Wudang and Shaolin leaders during the book.
    Minor correction: it is Yucha, not "Yuchan."
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  15. #35
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Note : A + after the name indicates person could be a bit better. A - after the name indicates could be slightly worse.
    Instead of ranking the fighters by levels, I personally prefer percentages. This way each individual gets his/her own percentage level, and the readers don't have to suffer through another round of disagreement like "Chongxu is slightly worse than Linghu Chong; the 2 do not belong to the same category."

    So my version would look something like this (taken from the N-TH TIME HOW WOULD YOU RANK THE GREATS topic):

    3. Guo Jing 100%
    4. Yang Guo 95%
    5. Zhou Botong 93%
    6. Golden Wheel Monk 90%
    7. Eastern Heretic Huang Yaoshi 89%
    8. Southern Emperor Yideng 86%
    9. (Central Divinity Wang Chong Yang) 85%
    10. Qiu Qianren 83%
    11. (Lin Chaoying) 70%
    12. Hong Qigong 61%
    13. Ouyang Feng 60%

    p.s. logically speaking, I think that the remaining Greats at the end of ROCH should be able to squash West Poison and Northern Beggar individually.
    Last edited by PJ; 08-24-06 at 01:15 AM.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  16. #36
    Senior Member hkopinions's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by PJ
    Guo Xiang not as significant as Lin Chaoying? In what sense do you mean. Because as far as I know, Lin Chaoying's sect only lasted 3 or 4 generations.
    Hmmm, LCY-->her maid-->XLN/LMC-->YG-->their kids...-->HSDS (Yellow dress girl)

    We don't actually know how many generations that would be, but should be much more than 4. Since, it is so secretive, it may still be around in SOD.

    IMO, WCY wasn't that great since he relied on 9Y to defeat LCY, while she created her own but to to become the ultimate fighter but a lovestruck martial artist with WCY. In my book, that puts her above a lot of people.

  17. #37
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Ah yes, I forgot the Yellow-dressed Lady in HSDS. Yet, do we know for sure that she was a member of the Ancient Tomb organization? Did Ancient Tomb still exist by HSDS' time?
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    Ah yes, I forgot the Yellow-dressed Lady in HSDS. Yet, do we know for sure that she was a member of the Ancient Tomb organization? Did Ancient Tomb still exist by HSDS' time?
    If you ask me, I have always felt that Lady Yang learned an uncomplete 9 Yin. Where did she get the 9 Yin from? The TOMB! Even though ZZR had the full version, she only learned the quick method and was just beggining to train 9 Yin chi. Even though in theory, Lady Yang has less than ZZR, Lady Yang should still be stronger significantly because she learned the orthodox and proper method+she has more training. It's just like when JY said that the proper 9 Yin is > the reversed 9 Yin for OYF and H7G. So in that sense, Lady Yang probably can be considered a successor of Tomb Sect since the 9 Yin came from the Tomb. Plus, we only know Lady Yang used the EXTERNAL art of 9 Yin Claw on ZZR. We don't know what her internal is do we? So it could very possibly be Jade Maiden.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

  19. #39
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    OK, I can accept the possibility that Ancient Tomb still existed in HSDS. And yet that was the last time we hear of its name in Jin Yong wuxia. We can speculate whether it continued to exist in "secret" but that in my opinion is not of much value. Especially considering that Emei Sect is now confirmed to be in existence throughout Smiling Proud Wanderer, Ode to Gallantry, Crimson Sword, Duke of Mount Deer, and Flying Fox of the Snowy Mountain.

    Guo Xiang definitely achieved more impact with her Emei Sect than Lin Chaoying with Ancient Tomb.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by WuxiaMaster
    Last thing was about Tian Shan Tong Lao/Li Qiu Shui and Wu Ya Zi bunch. This one, i read the original novel before and I don't see them to be all that strong because they didn't once engage in battle with another person (generally). The only thing that we can conclude is like "The 3 of them are the same tier", and "Wu Ya Zi is way above Ding Chun Qiu".
    ~
    Tian Shan Tong Lao (TSTL) started learning at age 8 a martial art which normally takes a person 30 years of hard training before they can even try learning 1 stance without fire deviating. By the end of the book, she had been practising it for 80 years! She was also famous for not needing more then 1 stance to kill her enemies.

    Li Qiu Shui could use a 50 feet LDA. About the maximum we see in ALL of JY's stories. Li Qiu Shui also mastered all 8 volumes (from Edition 3) of the Xiao Wu Xiang Gong. JiuMoZhi only mastered 7 of the 8 volumes and he became a powerhouse able to overcome all the Shaolin Xuan generation monks easily. Ding Chun Qiu which is about as good as Abbot XuanCi could not even master ONE volume! Her 'Soul Searching Method' also made Yideng's long distance voice transmission look tame in comparison.

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